Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 628. (Read 26710486 times)

And if you reside in a country that taxes unrealised gains then get the hell out of there.

Is getting back the coins a taxable event, even if you don't sell them? I'd expect you'd have to pay the gains tax only if you sell them.

Is getting back the coins a taxable event, even if you don't sell them? I'd expect you'd have to pay the gains tax only if you sell them.

There is no way I would let a 650000 score that drops to 520000.  With 1 simple payment in Sept. Turn into a big fuckup because I did not pay. IF COINS TANK to 20k and I waited til April 2025 I still pay 20% of the 650000. Which is 130000 tax.

LOYCE is likely to be correct.


THE point I started here is it is very likely USA people will face a tax on this windfall.

Worst case is 20% due Sept 16 2024 assuming you get it before Sept 16 2024.

So anyone with tax savvy experience is cashing and paying the 15 or 20 percent tax ASAP.

THINK ABOUT IT let's take someone that had 50 coins or 32500. They likely took a lost on that in 2014.

THEY NOW recover 10 coins worth 65000k each. Since they were declared a loss in 2014 it would be a 650,000 gain. It is possible it may not be capital gain which is even worse.

I based it as capital gain. I am certain that you are not getting an IRS ruling on what to do. So paying the cap tax ASAP is the sefeest most conservative thing to do.

Thus I am thinking as much as 30% of coins are getting sold ASAP when it comes to USA holders.

There is no way I would let a 650000 score that drops to 520000.  With 1 simple payment in Sept. Turn into a big fuckup because I did not pay. IF COINS TANK to 20k and I waited til April 2025 I still pay 20% of the 650000. Which is 130000 tax.

IF I pay quick Ì have 8 coins left
IF I pay slow I have maybe 3.5 coins left.

The idea that my way gives me 8 coins of ten coins
THE DELAY could give more if coins go up or far less if coins drop and paying a penalty to boot.

Maybe...and this is the worst read, albeit what you lost is PROPERTY, not $$, right?
You were just informed that 75% of your property is gone, but you can have the 25%-that would be the "best" read, but i am not sure if it is possible to interpret it like this.

This is absolutely beautiful; a true example of FAFO. Can't wait till the charges against him come and he deserves every bit of pain he gets for all the suffering he put people through

I am not too excited about some of the seeming pushes for all electric - even though there might be some practical uses for such, and it seems that battery technology is not at such a state that commercial airlines would be able to fly if there were to be some kind of an all electric design for such, so there are some problematic aspects around some all electric applications, though it may have some reeasonable applications.. but yeah there are likely also problems with all electric in real hot or real cold climates (seasons), too...

I'm not a tax specialist either, and especially not on US taxes, but shouldn't the capital loss be based on what you paid for it back in the days? You never paid capital gains tax on those 75 Bitcoins, so I'd say the capital loss should be based on what you paid in (say) 2014.

I am not a tax specialist and in all likelihood this is how it would be taxed, but think of the logic (or maybe the lack of it in our 1040).
Say, I had 100 coins on MtGox (I didn't have any, just a theoretical number).
They are sending me back 25 and telling me that 75 were "lost" due to the business failure.
Let's say, i get the coins today, July 17.
OK, I got the "income" of 25X65 (roughly for simplification)=$1.625 mil
In addition, I also got a claim of a capital loss of 75X65=$4.875 mil. It is real, but I am not sure how to best document it in the return-a question to CPA.

common misconception if you earn the extra money today you need to pay estimated taxes as you earn it.



trust me  a person that scored bigly on this say 10 coins lost at 6500 now worth 650000 would be an idiot to not pay 20% or 130k the day he gets the coins

well next estimated  payment is due  9/16/2024


Now I simply have zero idea how this will be treated by usa.

but they are scum and may not say what they should which would be we will consider that you held them from 2014 to 2024 and as long as you keep them as BTC no tax is due.

My guess is they will say it is income of 650,000 - 6,500 = 635,000 which is 127,000 tax which will be due by 9/16/2024


so a 10 coins coin living in the USA should sell 2 and pay the tax.

BTW if you get the coins at 650,000 don't pay the tax and the coins drop to 30,000 each or 300,000 guess what you tax bill based will be in April 2025   650,000 not 300,000


So any USA guy or girl  needs to talk to a tax expert idk they  had 5 or 10 or more coins maybe even if they have 1 or 2 coins.


The IRS will not give a snap ruling on this I am explaining the worst the USA can do as of today.  So I see smart USA people selling at least enough to pay the tax . which is 20% if it is big or 15% if it is small enough

Yes.  What do you know?

It seems important to note that GOX creditors are not going to be getting taxed anything if they are choosing to not sell any of their received coins.  

The receipt of the coins does not trigger a taxable event.  These are not mined coins.. they are likely previously purchased coins... and a fraction of their original stash (perhaps around 15%)

I know that frequently you are coming up with solutions that involve the selling of coins, but real bitcoin HODLers are not necessarily jumping straight into considering how much fiat that they can get for their cornz.. Getting an immediate fiat payoff may well not be the first thought that comes to the mind of a "true" coiner.

By the way if a GOX customer receives around 5 BTC, that may well would have meant that his quantity of BTC would have had been around 33 BTC at the time of the bankruptcy filing.. that is assuming around a payout of around 15% of his earlier GOX balance.

So yes the receipt of 5 BTC and 5 Bcash may well result in the selling of Bcash, and perhaps buying BTC with that money or maybe just completely cashing out of his Bcash stash.. which currently 5 BCash would be valued just under $2k.  Does he buy BTC with that Bcash money or just decide to use the cash? or some combination?

If such a person with around 5 BTC credit from GOX, then perhaps over the years, that person would have had also replaced his 33-ish BTC, so maybe such a person still holds around 33 BTC outside of GOX, so his receipt of a GOX payout increases his BTC stash from 33-ish to 38-ish.  Perhaps? perhaps?

38-ish BTC would not be a bad sized total stash, and surely the GOX coin recipient might consider his receipt of the 5 BTC as a reason to start some kind of a sustainable withdrawal system, even something aggressive like 10% would result in an ability to begin to cash out around 0.275 BTC per month ($17,875 at current prices).. . which is around 3.3 BTC per year...and so yeah, if someone does not need to withdraw that much, he could withdraw less than that amount... but yeah, after around a year and a half, someone withdrawing 10% per year would have had withdrawn all of his GOX coins if such a hypothetical might happen to apply to any such GOX creditor.


Personally, this here cat (I) would not necessarily consider a lack of ongoing and persistent UP as being exactly down.. but, hey whatever, you are not completely inaccurate and sure it is a free world (the last time I checked), so you can say your uppities and downities however you like, since obviously, your mileage does seem to vary.

The capital gain tax is different for various countries including asset or income that are considered taxable
In my country it's 10% for capital gain tax but since you mentioned USA, let's use it as a basis as can be seen below.



The deadline which for tax payment is also quite different for different countries but one for USA is April 2025
So there's no rush in paying tax now
Besides I won't be surprised if individuals that are expecting the BTCs have started or already have a method that they would benefit the most from even with tax.
Like taking their holdings as a collateral.
You don't need to pay tax if you not selling.

There are countries whose tax system would cost little or nothing to receivers of The MT GOX Btc
Like Belze, Netherlands(usually no tax on personal equity), Singapore, Switzerland (progressive tax system here), Monaco etc.  

Personally I think most especially those holding quite some amount before wouldn't want to sell
They have been surviving without it except those that really needs it or have weak hands
Well as long as the fall is not caused by anything that threatens Bitcoin Fundamentals
Then it would always be a buying opportunity.

There are some country where Tax on long holding assets are
The capital tax law of countries are quite different so it all depends and you don't have to pay your Tax when holding except when you sell.

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The last time I got any contact with Bitcoin price it was around $55K
It always a beautiful experience buying Bitcoin when it's showing -5 to 7%

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/estimated-taxes


Taxes must be paid as you earn or receive income during the year, either through withholding or estimated tax payments. If the amount of income tax withheld from your salary or pension is not enough, or if you receive income such as interest, dividends, alimony, self-employment income, capital gains, prizes and awards, you may have to make estimated tax payments. If you are in business for yourself, you generally need to make estimated tax payments. Estimated tax is used to pay not only income tax, but other taxes such as self-employment tax and alternative minimum tax.

If you don’t pay enough tax through withholding and estimated tax payments, you may have to pay a penalty. You also may have to pay a penalty if your estimated tax payments are late, even if you are due a refund when you file your tax return.

There are countries whose tax system would cost little or nothing to receivers of The MT GOX Btc
Like Belze, Netherlands(usually no tax on personal equity), Singapore, Switzerland (progressive tax system here), Monaco etc.