What if you invest some of that %4 back into bitcoin?
Investment of an investment. Investmentception. Infinite money. *mindblown
Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion - page 8555. (Read 26709087 times)
January 22, 2020, 12:48:04 AM
January 22, 2020, 12:40:21 AM
Let's say you come up with $1million as nice round number. Again, this could as low as $500K in some countries and just for a very modest lifestyle up to $5 million for US, with many years to live, and with a nice lifestyle.
Daym you need $5m to live in the US?
Wellllll...
The traditional financial advisor .. um ... advice is to plan on withdrawing 4% annually.
So 4% of $5M is $200K. Is that enough? Before taxes? It's an individual target.
Note that the 4% assumes normal retirement age and life expectancy. If retiring early or planning on living to 268 years of age, you might wanna reduce the percentage for calculation purposes.
I might have different assumptions about the traditional 4%, which I thought was meant to be a perpetually sustainable withdrawal rate because it is presumed that you are going to be able to average at least 4% per year returns (some years higher and some years lower). So, 4% should even work for someone who lives to 268 years old.
Some tricky parts are 1) withdrawing beyond 4% per year (and dipping into principle, and then if you end up living longer after you have depleted the principle).. 2) NOT being able to sustain at least 4% on average returns on your investments, and if you believe that is actually happening to your investment, then you need to reduce your withdrawal rate.. most investment advisors believe 4% to be safe because they believe that they can achieve at least that level of returns in a sustainable way or 3) you have miscalculated how large of a principle that you need.. and the 4% returns is not enough (that is in the $5million $200k per annum is not enough)...
Part of the reason that you would want to error in the high side of obtaining a higher principle before your retire (or pull the fuck you lever) is to attempt to be able to account for the various unknowns, including cost of living increases that might happen or prolonged downturn in the economy that would end up reducing your returns and things like that... Of course, if you expect that you are going to die earlier than you can dip in to your principle and even completely liquidate your principle, but then yeah, you could become kind of fucked if you continue to live..
Needs a bit of an attention span on the subject, but would recommend reading this series in case you want to learn more about the ‘safe withdrawal rate’. The guy really made an effort:
https://earlyretirementnow.com/safe-withdrawal-rate-series/
January 21, 2020, 11:11:27 PM
Imagine how disappointed they'll be when they figure that they neither have privacy nor their money anymore lol
Well shit I owe you a merit for this.
i gotcha
Thanks.
You are a scammer
Being a scammer requires a victim. Who have I scammed, somac.? Name the aggrieved party or STFU.
JJG is certainly aggrieved, so there is that.
... how did I miss so many pages !!!!
January 21, 2020, 10:39:07 PM
January 21, 2020, 10:30:14 PM
I have been to a local Bitcoin meet-up this evening.
Special Guest: Saifedean Ammous.
Special Guest: Saifedean Ammous.
If you can't figure out who the sucker in the room is, it's you. Ever notice all these jackass paid shills like Pompliano and Andreas Antonopolous, all they talk about is things like "accelerating Bitcoin adoption", which really just means trying to trick other people into buying into the Ponzi scam? And that's literally all they do 24 hours a day: try to fool people into giving up their hard earned labor for completely valueless, imaginary timestamps. Probably the biggest ripoff joke in the entire history of mankind, to trade your labor for something even less valuable than a piece of fiat paper - a timestamp.
If something actually has value, you don't need to try and trick other people into using it. Nobody wakes up in the morning trying to trick people into using oil. I don't need to convince anyone to buy silver because it's an actual commodity resource that's needed regardless. Only Keynesian scams (imaginary widgets based on artificial scarcity) need these 'hype men' to try and trick people into buying them.
January 21, 2020, 10:21:03 PM
Economists mostly follow traditional models, only some see beyond.
Source: https://twitter.com/NickSzabo4/status/1219805247536693248
Quote
Successful Bitcoin holders have low time preference & judge over extended periods, e.g. risk-adjusted return over 4-year holding periods. If an economist has not researched this strong market signal for explanations of supply & demand, they don't have a useful opinion about it.
Source: https://twitter.com/NickSzabo4/status/1219805247536693248
January 21, 2020, 10:01:04 PM
I think the use of BTC is quite important but the idea of saving is fair also, even in FIAT this idea is lost to the consumer culture of borrow now and pay later which ends with people in an unhappy place obligated into debts and constricted in job choices etc. Credit Score just goes up by issuing debt ie. borrowing then repaying, it seems quite a failed idea (echos of 2008) when they ignore perpetually revolving debt which is never repaid which is most western governments now. If you mimic your national QE issuer in a constant turn over you are rewarded with lower rates.
Unless the debts are zero'd at some point we'll never know where we are really at. My take on markets is that is the end game, that natural order has the tides stronger then kings or governments and QE or whatever failures in FIAT are ongoing do fail, we do get a resolved situation. Some think this whole modern era of revolving debt (to the detriment of capitalism) continues for 50 years at least, I think its a house of cards and it just takes a breeze to ruin that idea. Its a fragile system we are in, I think the black swan dude talks about those concepts.
Funny thing about Nicolas Taleb is that he isnt for Bitcoin afaik but as a person of Lebanese nationality he does then recommend use of BTC with regard to the failures of government which is confusing then.
[I might be wrong and he is more positive on BTC but he was advocating holding treasury bonds so he is a hard read. He certainly has BTC available from ages ago as he was gifted it many times over]
BTC confirming above 8000 should be a positive but for the moment we might continue to trade between the 50 and 200 day average though they really aren't boundaries, a pullback seems fair for building upwards. I did wonder if it might go as far as 11k upwards as soon as this month end but the typical advance, pullback, advance is more regular and sustained for a truly bullish trend if that is what we are forming right now.
Unless the debts are zero'd at some point we'll never know where we are really at. My take on markets is that is the end game, that natural order has the tides stronger then kings or governments and QE or whatever failures in FIAT are ongoing do fail, we do get a resolved situation. Some think this whole modern era of revolving debt (to the detriment of capitalism) continues for 50 years at least, I think its a house of cards and it just takes a breeze to ruin that idea. Its a fragile system we are in, I think the black swan dude talks about those concepts.
Funny thing about Nicolas Taleb is that he isnt for Bitcoin afaik but as a person of Lebanese nationality he does then recommend use of BTC with regard to the failures of government which is confusing then.
[I might be wrong and he is more positive on BTC but he was advocating holding treasury bonds so he is a hard read. He certainly has BTC available from ages ago as he was gifted it many times over]
BTC confirming above 8000 should be a positive but for the moment we might continue to trade between the 50 and 200 day average though they really aren't boundaries, a pullback seems fair for building upwards. I did wonder if it might go as far as 11k upwards as soon as this month end but the typical advance, pullback, advance is more regular and sustained for a truly bullish trend if that is what we are forming right now.
January 21, 2020, 09:57:08 PM
To be fair, the question extended beyond BTC to crypto.
And the bottom is most definitely not in for shitcoins.
And the bottom is most definitely not in for shitcoins.
Yeah, it should've been two polls. Though IMO the shitcoin bottom is probably in too.
January 21, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
[edited out]
Chill! I'm just another Jupiter passing by. Jupiter doesn't need anything to be happy. Jupiter=happines....I don't need sex or your coins to go to the moon to be happy because i'm beyond the moon.Of course, you don't need anything. You are a typical shit-stirrer who fails / refuses to provide information about any of your own particulars while trying to act like you know more than you do regarding bitcoin and/or good practices....
For what reason, hard to determine besides you are a fucktwat disingenuine poster who is not really here to contribute value. but just stir nonsensical shit.
January 21, 2020, 07:26:31 PM
I have been to a local Bitcoin meet-up this evening.
Host/Valet: Giacomo Zucco
Special Guest: Saifedean Ammous.
I think you know the guy.
Best quote of the night:
❤️#nohomo
That was great!
Edit: the concept has been told a few times:
I really like both these guys. That's a conference I'd like to attend. Host/Valet: Giacomo Zucco
Special Guest: Saifedean Ammous.
I think you know the guy.
Best quote of the night:
Quote from: “Saifedean Ammous”
“The most subsersive thing you can to with bitcoin is saving”
❤️#nohomo
That was great!
Edit: the concept has been told a few times:
Quote
"The only crime you should do with Bitcoin is saving and that's the most powerful of the crimes"
@saifedean
https://twitter.com/mir_btc/status/1219341317500821505?s=21@saifedean
Nice quotes also, I'll try to remember them.
January 21, 2020, 07:19:23 PM
My guess is Vietnam too.
Tossing at Phantom Rang (no clue why... just hinting because of kites in the background and googled kite destinations in Vietnam and liked the name).
Tossing at Phantom Rang (no clue why... just hinting because of kites in the background and googled kite destinations in Vietnam and liked the name).
You are a bit late, the competition was already won
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.53659752
I see the corn tried to shake a few out before catching a bid higher. Down to 8500 and right back up to 8700
January 21, 2020, 06:46:16 PM
https://www.inc.com/quora/too-many-people-fall-into-this-one-huge-financial-trap-good-news-its-easy-to-avoid.html
Quote
Your credit score should really be called a "sucker score" because it's a number that exists for only one reason: to tell banks how much money they're going to be able to make off of you. The higher it is, the more of your money goes to them.
That's not how they sell it, of course. They sell it as a metric for determining "credit worthiness". But if you really break down what makes a credit score higher or lower, you'll see that they aren't being honest about what it actually is.
For example, if you're the type of person who doesn't use credit all that much, but can make large purchases and pay them off in a matter of days or weeks, that should be an indicator that you're the most "credit worthy" person on the planet. Right? Shouldn't the people who do that have the highest credit scores?
Nope. You're actually penalized for that, and your credit score goes down. Banks hate you, because you don't carry debt long enough for them to make anything off of you.
That's not how they sell it, of course. They sell it as a metric for determining "credit worthiness". But if you really break down what makes a credit score higher or lower, you'll see that they aren't being honest about what it actually is.
For example, if you're the type of person who doesn't use credit all that much, but can make large purchases and pay them off in a matter of days or weeks, that should be an indicator that you're the most "credit worthy" person on the planet. Right? Shouldn't the people who do that have the highest credit scores?
Nope. You're actually penalized for that, and your credit score goes down. Banks hate you, because you don't carry debt long enough for them to make anything off of you.
No kidding.
January 21, 2020, 06:44:14 PM
GET the BTC!
https://phemex.com/references/articles/try-to-solve-our-2-btc-puzzle#puzzle-rules
I have no F**king clue! LOL
I thought this line break was the entrance to the maze, but I guess I'm wrong...https://phemex.com/references/articles/try-to-solve-our-2-btc-puzzle#puzzle-rules
I have no F**king clue! LOL
January 21, 2020, 06:29:12 PM
$ 12.5K likely for approach to Halving ..
Source: https://dailyhodl.com/2020/01/21/analyst-traders-should-prep-for-serious-shift-in-bitcoin-btc-momentum-12-5k-likely-as-halving-approaches/
Quote
The analyst speculates that the upcoming Bitcoin halving event, due in May, will likely trigger buying interest among investors and convince people to hold, setting BTC on a track that follows the 50-week moving average
Source: https://dailyhodl.com/2020/01/21/analyst-traders-should-prep-for-serious-shift-in-bitcoin-btc-momentum-12-5k-likely-as-halving-approaches/
January 21, 2020, 05:21:47 PM
Imagine being someone who still thinks the bottom isn't in.
Twitter is full of anti bitcoin trolls who are so jealous that they missed the train so try to turn others against bitcoin.
We are the lucky one’s.
Goodnight gentlemen.
January 21, 2020, 05:20:16 PM
To be fair, the question extended beyond BTC to crypto.
And the bottom is most definitely not in for shitcoins.
And the bottom is most definitely not in for shitcoins.
January 21, 2020, 04:24:06 PM
Imagine being someone who still thinks the bottom isn't in.
Thats just saying i'm a salty, BTC-hating, NO-coiner troll.... hoping no one to reach luck or financial independency
Most important is don't be such a person, hope the best for the people next to you and those living in this corrupt bad world of today.
January 21, 2020, 04:09:28 PM
Imagine being someone who still thinks the bottom isn't in.
January 21, 2020, 04:04:19 PM
Good morning Bitcoinland.
Still going sideways preparing for another assault on $9k I see... currently $8646USD/$11312CAD (Bitcoinaverage).
Ho. Hum.
It's a shame but it's absolutely true.
How times change. I guess I'm showing my age but when I was a kid saving was considered a virtue. Usury was a crime. Loan sharks were sleazy gangsters akin to pushers and pimps.
We were advised to save up to buy things we needed. Borrowing to buy things was considered foolish weakness, like drug addiction or gambling. Bank accounts were for saving, not spending. Sure, some payments were made by cheque (i.e. utility bills) but most purchases were made with good clean honest cash.
Bank credit was for businesses, for earning money, not spending it. Individuals borrowed mainly for mortgages or home improvement loans which were themselves a form of business loan. For everything else you saved until you could afford to buy with cash.
Consumer credit was on a small personal level. People would send their kids to the neighborhood grocery store for a few things during the week and the grocer would put them on your tab to be settled up in cash when he delivered your weekly grocery order on Saturday.
Banks paid people to save money which they then lent out to businesses. There were no service charges for regular services like deposits and withdrawals. "Prizes" like toasters or other household appliances were given as inducements to open accounts. No identification was required (nor asked for) to open an account. The fact that you trusted them with your money was enough.
Benjamin Franklin in his wisdom said, "neither borrower nor lender be". How sad that we have allowed ourselves to become wage and debt slaves.
"Hodling" is emancipation.
Still going sideways preparing for another assault on $9k I see... currently $8646USD/$11312CAD (Bitcoinaverage).
Ho. Hum.
Quote from: “Saifedean Ammous”
“The most subversive thing you can to with bitcoin is saving”
It's a shame but it's absolutely true.
How times change. I guess I'm showing my age but when I was a kid saving was considered a virtue. Usury was a crime. Loan sharks were sleazy gangsters akin to pushers and pimps.
We were advised to save up to buy things we needed. Borrowing to buy things was considered foolish weakness, like drug addiction or gambling. Bank accounts were for saving, not spending. Sure, some payments were made by cheque (i.e. utility bills) but most purchases were made with good clean honest cash.
Bank credit was for businesses, for earning money, not spending it. Individuals borrowed mainly for mortgages or home improvement loans which were themselves a form of business loan. For everything else you saved until you could afford to buy with cash.
Consumer credit was on a small personal level. People would send their kids to the neighborhood grocery store for a few things during the week and the grocer would put them on your tab to be settled up in cash when he delivered your weekly grocery order on Saturday.
Banks paid people to save money which they then lent out to businesses. There were no service charges for regular services like deposits and withdrawals. "Prizes" like toasters or other household appliances were given as inducements to open accounts. No identification was required (nor asked for) to open an account. The fact that you trusted them with your money was enough.
Benjamin Franklin in his wisdom said, "neither borrower nor lender be". How sad that we have allowed ourselves to become wage and debt slaves.
"Hodling" is emancipation.
https://www.inc.com/quora/too-many-people-fall-into-this-one-huge-financial-trap-good-news-its-easy-to-avoid.html
Quote
Your credit score should really be called a "sucker score" because it's a number that exists for only one reason: to tell banks how much money they're going to be able to make off of you. The higher it is, the more of your money goes to them.
That's not how they sell it, of course. They sell it as a metric for determining "credit worthiness". But if you really break down what makes a credit score higher or lower, you'll see that they aren't being honest about what it actually is.
For example, if you're the type of person who doesn't use credit all that much, but can make large purchases and pay them off in a matter of days or weeks, that should be an indicator that you're the most "credit worthy" person on the planet. Right? Shouldn't the people who do that have the highest credit scores?
Nope. You're actually penalized for that, and your credit score goes down. Banks hate you, because you don't carry debt long enough for them to make anything off of you.
That's not how they sell it, of course. They sell it as a metric for determining "credit worthiness". But if you really break down what makes a credit score higher or lower, you'll see that they aren't being honest about what it actually is.
For example, if you're the type of person who doesn't use credit all that much, but can make large purchases and pay them off in a matter of days or weeks, that should be an indicator that you're the most "credit worthy" person on the planet. Right? Shouldn't the people who do that have the highest credit scores?
Nope. You're actually penalized for that, and your credit score goes down. Banks hate you, because you don't carry debt long enough for them to make anything off of you.
January 21, 2020, 03:36:51 PM
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