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Topic: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - page 1177. (Read 1811605 times)

sr. member
Activity: 387
Merit: 250
Your $10m-$20m number is bunk. First of all, there's 9.28m BTC now, not 8.5m. Second, market capitalization does not determine the required money flow for a price change, the depth on the order book does.

Whoops, yes you are right about the 9.28, but that still falls within the bounds of $10m-$20m so as to not disqualify it as "bunk".  Notice how wide of a range I gave.  Your statement would make more sense if I had claimed, "The price went up $1.75, so that means $16,240,000 must have flowed into BTC."

But the truth is, to achieve a sustained price change, the inflow has to fall somewhere in between the metric you cite (depth of the order book) and the change in market cap.  Someone buying all at once will indeed momentarily raise the price as dictated by the order book; that moment will be brief, and in the absence of other buying, that price will definitely not be sustained.  And if MtGox has to continue to delay wires of $9999 or smaller, well, that's a pretty far cry from millions.  The BTC price did not jump $1.75 based on $9999 or less in buying activity.

for example: you start an alternative like bitcoin. ppl mine 1000 coins, someone will buy 10 for 10 USD.
if he does buy and another is willing to buy at 10. few ppl would argue that now the marketcapitalisation should be 10'000USD. but its actually just 100 USD. this does not mean, that the worth should be 0.1USD.
because real worth is 10 USD if someone wants to pay 10 USD (!!!)
to have the approximative calculation you'd need to look at the trade history of all merchants and sum all buys and subtract all sells at the prices where they were executed.
EDIT: you have to add all capital of the buyside of all oderbooks of all merchants to get a calculation, how much money is involved in Bitcoin-market

this is (nearly) never the current prize multiplied with the existing coins.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1227
Away on an extended break
The most probable reason that you're not getting calls should be the fact that many exchangers have popped up of late. Add BitInstant and Tangible Cryptography in the mix, and you'll realize it's far more easy to acquire bitcoins now as compared to last year.

I should clarify I'm advertising deals of $20k+.  BitInstant definitely does not accept deals of that size, and Tangible isn't explicitly seeking them out (that I have seen).

Oops, I stand corrected.  Wink
*John starts to hoard coinage in a steady trickle*
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047
but why sell at 6.7 if you can at 7+ Huh

Because if its anything like the last time we got around this price. The price dropped by 30% in less then 2hrs.
chart pls

Here is a link Smiley easy to do if you want to review the history (since I gather you were not there)

You can set the date to 1 day trade and see it by the min or seconds if you wish.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg180zig2-hourzczsg2012-01-16zeg2012-01-27ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

This is a 1 day chart as you can see its not exactly 30% but if you had invested some $ at the wrong time you took a hit.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg180zig15-minzczsg2012-01-18zeg2012-01-18ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zvzp


Remember that its past history. Anything can happen.
this time was at a downtrend from the 7.2 high, i think the situation now is totaly different. nothing to compare here

Well its very similar considering the day of the month (payday) and weekday start end (trading trends)

However you must factor in the role Bitcoinica's famed market indicator "*" played in that swing.

but i digress..



vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1140
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
Casascius, have you just dumped you coins?
I bet you've made a lot of money, so don't scare us with ( Micky dollar + Caculation ).
I think the rising is healthy, and i think it will go on.

I have not bought or sold any significant number of coins in several months, save for the person whose coins I mentioned I bought as a result of my ad.  And I suppose in the process of selling Casascius Coins, I am effectively buying coins very slowly, since I am collecting my costs and markup and shipping charges in BTC, but paying for my supplies and shipping costs in USD.

I do not have any funds in any exchanges, no USD, no BTC.

I paid for my next two months of advertising in Bitcoin Magazine using a USD wire, so as to not smash the BTC piggybank.  In fact, I've made my BTC very difficult to access (physically) so selling it is actually quite inconvenient for me.  Forced savings strategy I guess.  That should tell you how I feel about the long-term prospects of BTC.

If I have an ulterior motive, it's to cool off the chances of there being an unwarranted spike and then a crash.  I would like the coins I am holding to see an increase in their fundamental market value over time, rather than to see a bubble, a brief spike, followed by a crash that scares off merchants.  Stability in the bitcoin price favors growth in the community.

I agree rising is healthy, but I would prefer to see a slow rise, rather than a fast rise followed by wild oscillation.  Now, if it suddenly rises to $30 and then oscillates between $10 and $20 and stays (and I'll eat my crow), I can't say I'll complain given my average BTC cost is under the current going rate.  But what I don't want to see is a spike to $11 and then back down to $5 as "profit takers" act faster than the inflow of demand only to cool it off.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Casascius, have you just dumped you coins?
I bet you've made a lot of money.
Stop scaring us with ( Micky dollar + Caculation ).
I think the rising is healthy, and i think it will go on.
vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1140
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
Your $10m-$20m number is bunk. First of all, there's 9.28m BTC now, not 8.5m. Second, market capitalization does not determine the required money flow for a price change, the depth on the order book does.

Whoops, yes you are right about the 9.28, but that still falls within the bounds of $10m-$20m so as to not disqualify it as "bunk".  Notice how wide of a range I gave.  Your statement would make more sense if I had claimed, "The price went up $1.75, so that means $16,240,000 must have flowed into BTC."

But the truth is, to achieve a sustained price change, the inflow has to fall somewhere in between the metric you cite (depth of the order book) and the change in market cap.  Someone buying all at once will indeed momentarily raise the price as dictated by the order book; that moment will be brief, and in the absence of other buying, that price will definitely not be sustained.  And if MtGox has to continue to delay wires of $9999 or smaller, well, that's a pretty far cry from millions.  The BTC price did not jump $1.75 based on $9999 or less in buying activity.
sr. member
Activity: 387
Merit: 250
but why sell at 6.7 if you can at 7+ Huh

Because if its anything like the last time we got around this price. The price dropped by 30% in less then 2hrs.
chart pls

Here is a link Smiley easy to do if you want to review the history (since I gather you were not there)

You can set the date to 1 day trade and see it by the min or seconds if you wish.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg180zig2-hourzczsg2012-01-16zeg2012-01-27ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

This is a 1 day chart as you can see its not exactly 30% but if you had invested some $ at the wrong time you took a hit.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg180zig15-minzczsg2012-01-18zeg2012-01-18ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zvzp


Remember that its past history. Anything can happen.
this time was at a downtrend from the 7.2 high, i think the situation now is totaly different. nothing to compare here
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
but why sell at 6.7 if you can at 7+ Huh

Because if its anything like the last time we got around this price. The price dropped by 30% in less then 2hrs.
chart pls

Here is a link Smiley easy to do if you want to review the history (since I gather you were not there)

You can set the date to 1 day trade and see it by the min or seconds if you wish.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg180zig2-hourzczsg2012-01-16zeg2012-01-27ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

Remember that its past history. Anything can happen.


the famous bitcoinia long squeeze
it was so unexpected the price Jumped back up 30%  
vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1140
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
The most probable reason that you're not getting calls should be the fact that many exchangers have popped up of late. Add BitInstant and Tangible Cryptography in the mix, and you'll realize it's far more easy to acquire bitcoins now as compared to last year.

I should clarify I'm advertising deals of $20k+.  BitInstant definitely does not accept deals of that size, and Tangible isn't explicitly seeking them out (that I have seen).
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047
but why sell at 6.7 if you can at 7+ Huh

Because if its anything like the last time we got around this price. The price dropped by 30% in less then 2hrs.
chart pls

Here is a link Smiley easy to do if you want to review the history (since I gather you were not there)

You can set the date to 1 day trade and see it by the min or seconds if you wish.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg180zig2-hourzczsg2012-01-16zeg2012-01-27ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

This is a 1 day chart as you can see its not exactly 30% but if you had invested some $ at the wrong time you took a hit.

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg180zig15-minzczsg2012-01-18zeg2012-01-18ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zvzp


Remember that its past history. Anything can happen.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1227
Away on an extended break
Somehow I suspect the price should NOT be going up huge any time soon (by this I mean within days), only based on a couple observations:

1 - the price going from $5 to $6.75 should be representative of somewhere between $10M-$20M coming into Bitcoins ($1.75 x 8.5 million BTC = $14.9M)

2 - in the event of millions of USD suddenly flooding in to chase BTC, I would expect MtGox should have no problem paying their backlog of USD wire withdrawals!... rather than people musing on the forums about how MtGox is holding up four-figure wires going on three weeks for the sake of "investigation" they pretend will be foiled if people received their money on time.

I believe people are buying coin, but if the tide is washing us with buyers beating our doors down with their USD, I am just not noticing it.

One more observation: I have an ad up on bitcoin-OTC offering to sell large amounts of Bitcoin, with my phone number.  I am not getting calls.  During last year's buying frenzy, I was getting plenty of calls.  (I am not really planning on selling BTC at the moment - it's up just in case I change my mind, and/or as a way to gauge the market, and/or in case I know someone trying to sell BTC where I can perhaps work myself a small profit as a middleman... in fact the last transaction I made as a result of my ad was me BUYING someone's BTC - someone who acknowledged knowing my ad was btc for sale)

I am happy with a six-dollar BTC for as long as it takes for real people interested in holding BTC for their own personal spending purposes arrive at the market to push the price up organically.  Merchants will never take BTC seriously if the price never stops swinging, and that's the real catalyst for growth.

The most probable reason that you're not getting calls should be the fact that many exchangers have popped up of late. Add BitInstant and Tangible Cryptography in the mix, and you'll realize it's far more easy to acquire bitcoins now as compared to last year.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1001
rippleFanatic
Somehow I suspect the price should NOT be going up huge any time soon (by this I mean within days), only based on a couple observations:

1 - the price going from $5 to $6.75 should be representative of somewhere between $10M-$20M coming into Bitcoins ($1.75 x 8.5 million BTC = $14.9M)
[...]
One more observation: I have an ad up on bitcoin-OTC offering to sell large amounts of Bitcoin, with my phone number.  I am not getting calls.  During last year's buying frenzy, I was getting plenty of calls.
[...]
I am happy with a six-dollar BTC for as long as it takes for real people interested in holding BTC for their own personal spending purposes arrive at the market to push the price up organically.  Merchants will never take BTC seriously if the price never stops swinging, and that's the real catalyst for growth.

Your $10m-$20m number is bunk. First of all, there's 9.28m BTC now, not 8.5m. Second, market capitalization does not determine the required money flow for a price change, the depth on the order book does.

The reason you aren't getting calls is because the rally hasn't even started yet. What we're seeing now is just retracement of the correction from the January high of $7.2. That's why we aren't seeing all the posts of exhilaration like the previous rallies, there was a sense of inevitability to this move. The relatively low volume behind up this upward move tells me that its more of a "correction to the correction" than a rally. I don't expect the trend to reverse until we see volume peak at new price highs.
sr. member
Activity: 387
Merit: 250
but why sell at 6.7 if you can at 7+ Huh

Because if its anything like the last time we got around this price. The price dropped by 30% in less then 2hrs.
chart pls
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047
but why sell at 6.7 if you can at 7+ Huh

Because if its anything like the last time we got around this price. The price dropped by 30% in less then 2hrs.
vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1140
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
Somehow I suspect the price should NOT be going up huge any time soon (by this I mean within days), only based on a couple observations:

1 - the price going from $5 to $6.75 should be representative of somewhere between $10M-$20M coming into Bitcoins ($1.75 x 8.5 million BTC = $14.9M)

2 - in the event of millions of USD suddenly flooding in to chase BTC, I would expect MtGox should have no problem paying their backlog of USD wire withdrawals!... rather than people musing on the forums about how MtGox is holding up four-figure wires going on three weeks for the sake of "investigation" they pretend will be foiled if people received their money on time.

I believe people are buying coin, but if the tide is washing us with buyers beating our doors down with their USD, I am just not noticing it.

One more observation: I have an ad up on bitcoin-OTC offering to sell large amounts of Bitcoin, with my phone number.  I am not getting calls.  During last year's buying frenzy, I was getting plenty of calls.  (I am not really planning on selling BTC at the moment - it's up just in case I change my mind, and/or as a way to gauge the market, and/or in case I know someone trying to sell BTC where I can perhaps work myself a small profit as a middleman... in fact the last transaction I made as a result of my ad was me BUYING someone's BTC - someone who acknowledged knowing my ad was btc for sale)

I am happy with a six-dollar BTC for as long as it takes for real people interested in holding BTC for their own personal spending purposes arrive at the market to push the price up organically.  Merchants will never take BTC seriously if the price never stops swinging, and that's the real catalyst for growth.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1001
rippleFanatic
20k wall has gone!
rally time?
online ppl on btcchart is increasing

You can bet he'll be back with his 20kBTC, and if he's waiting to sell it for more, then he'll probably have to sell into the bids; and my guess is that when he does that he'll accept significant slippage on the downside because he's going to try to sell at a top.  Whatever price rises we're in store for, if any, are probably going to be nothing more than an illusion.

I told you people: we're in an uptrend. Volume hasn't even picked up yet, and when it does, we'll smash through $7.2.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
A week ago we saw a buy wall at 5.70 (which then got moved) of nearly the same volume as the sell wall that just disappeared.  Seems like a reasonable but totally unprovable theory that this is the same person.  And this does not seem to be an optimal trading strategy :-) which tells me one thing -- this 150kUSD is just another position for this trader.  In other postings people were wondering how to attract big accounts... I think we're seeing one big account right now.

Maybe if we stop calling them "THE MANIPULATOR" they will invite some more of their friends.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1010
A week ago we saw a buy wall at 5.70 (which then got moved) of nearly the same volume as the sell wall that just disappeared.  Seems like a reasonable but totally unprovable theory that this is the same person.  And this does not seem to be an optimal trading strategy :-) which tells me one thing -- this 150kUSD is just another position for this trader.  In other postings people were wondering how to attract big accounts... I think we're seeing one big account right now.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
The first is by definition not flawed.
And i was already getting ready to watch it being grinded down over a longer timeframe as the new point of "stability".
sr. member
Activity: 387
Merit: 250
but why sell at 6.7 if you can at 7+ Huh
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