Topic: Warning, ALL BFL PRE-ORDERS ARE NON REFUNDABLE - CONFIRMED BY INABA - page 3. (Read 7722 times)

I'm not convinced there is any BFL staff aside from Inaba/BFL_Josh Zerlan, but that's another discussion.

So you tell me, why if it's official policy and BFL employee(s) could type it in a forum post they can easily delete, these same employee(s) cannot simply change the official faq? Why is it so difficult to make this policy official?

Not from here, but on BFL's own forum site, and not from only Inaba, but from other BFL staff

Whatever Inaba says here is not official BFL policy and wouldn't be enforceable even if he actually changed to his BFL_Josh costume AND you got it in writing.

Can you even imagine a disgruntled BFL pre-order customer attempting to cite Inaba's bitcointalk rants as evidence that they're entitled to a refund?

How many seconds would it take the COO of BFL to change the official BFL Faq if he so chose to? Why hasn't he? It's policy that supercedes the faq right?

But failed to cite or recognize the statements from Inaba and BFL staff that post-dated the FAQ that states they will honor refunds.  Others have cited them in this thread, but so conveniently they are ignored. 

He already cited BFL's own FAQ, that clearly states pre-order funds are officially non-refundable until January 1, 2013. This obviously gives BFL the cover to deny refunds between now and that date, if they so choose. Whether it's in violation of FTC regulation or not is another issue.

If  you will state fact that can be argued then we could have an educated discussion, but you just seem only want to make loose connections in order to  back up your assumptions.  For what purpose? You must be the shill, for a competitor.   

NO, it's just that in the midst of his intense anger, he has miscalculated and forwarded the wrong time frame to his customers.

We should never forget that he is indeed human. Perhaps.  

Edit: He will no doubt remedy it after he realizes the time frame is incorrect. (We all hope?)

But but ... daddy ... they don't have Unicorn blood!

 

It's almost as though you're suggesting that Josh was being dishonest(gasp) when he suggested that BFL could still ship products before the end of the year!

P.S. This by the way, says that Avalon was correct when they said that the chips take a helluva lot of time to be fabbed.

The "Full Custom" + 65nm = taking its toll in terms of time.

Folks, this is why the other 2 chose much bigger processes. They are older and the bugs easier to surmount.  (And alot cheaper!)

Oh I know what you mean.

When I read creativex repost of what the BFL rep said.....one thought came to mind.

A fab worker at the other end of the line with a conversation like this: [Imaginary on my part, of course]

BFL: What is the latest update?
Fab: Well, it is going well.
BFL: Is it done yet?
Fab: No, but it will be done soon. You know, we don't want to screw up fabbing your "?hand routed?" chip.
BFL: But the chips are made with a really expensive mask that costs a few million. The mask is just a glorified light filter to produce microelectronics....
Fab: Sir, don't patronize us.
BFL: Uh sorry. So...
Fab: So?
BFL: So, when will the chips be ready?
Fab: You know, these things take time. It's not like this is a process governed by physics and stringent mathematics. Geez.
BFL: Oh, I guess your right?
Fab: We are always right.

[30 seconds of silence on the phone]
BFL: So when will the chips be ready, our customers are "impatient".
Fab: When they are ready, Sir.
BFL: So is it like 10 days?
Fab: No, that sounds like it would be too soon.
BFL: Maybe 15 days?
Fab: No, that sounds like it would be too soon.
BFL: Maybe....
Fab: Lets say, 30 days and call it a day? Sounds good?
BFL: Wait, was that a question or a statement?
FAB: [Ripping up the BFL contract in the background, specifying the Jan 24th deadline.]
BFL: What was that noise just now?
Fab: Huh? What noise? Look we don't want to lose any money on making your very dense and very "hand routed" chips. These are complex devices you know. We have to sign off on these multi-layered processes so we can protect ourselves from doing them at our cost!
BFL: I understand. [Sobbing in the background]
Fab: Listen your a nice guy and all, but keep in mind you still have to wait for us to ship the final "naked" chips to the chip packing company of your choice. That is another 7 days for 100,000 chips.
Fab: Then you have to wait for the chip packaging farm to ship them to you overseas. That is at least 5 to 10 days for a pallet. On top of that you will have to send your final pallet of packaged chips, once they arrive at your door, to your assembly plant to have SMT machines put your boards and chips together. That can be anywhere from 3 days to 15.
BFL: [Starts to sweat profusely, then sobs loudly]
Fab: [Fab guy talks over the sounds of sobbing]
Then you have to wait for the completed assembly to arrive back at your door. So that is about 5 to 10 days.
Fab: Then you have to put these together on your own final assembly line, package them and out for shipping. That is maybe anywhere from:
20+30 days = 50 days at best.
40+30 days = 70 days at worst.

Fab: Cheer up, just tell your customers of only the fab delay. And don't allude too strongly that we are still only at the stage of fabbing your chip. Usually our customers' clients are too dumb to realize what that actually means. It'll all work out. Just dole out the delays nice and slow, not all at once. God no.
Fab: [Hearty Laugh]

BFL: [ Hangs up the phone, starts typing up the forum message to let his customers know what is going to go down. ]

----------------------

That is what it went down like in my overly creative imagination.

Hey no fair! Where the hell is Josh?!? When I was daring enough to suggest that BFL might be a bankruptcy risk he showed up and got all verbally riled up. How come *THIS* guy gets to state the obvious without being verbally assaulted?

Thanks for the sig quote BTW mem...gold.

Just like Pirates Ponzi all its going to take is enough refund orders for them to disappear.

well, i finally requested a refund from bfl.

we'll see how long it will take them to process it.

Crazy thread is crazy.  But no, the current announcement thread on BFL's site simply says that regardless of the current order and shipping status, pre-purchasers are being offered a refund.

Im familair with Sonny from his previous scams, he is a disgusting human being.


Official policy is official policy. 
This is just another tactic from Scummy Sonny.

You write the rules in your favor and hide them away in plain sight. You then do what any decent company does and process refunds normally.

Then when you decide you want to cut and run, you can do so knowing that your gullible clients (the only type BFL have) dont have a leg to stand on.

Hello my Drama Queen.

Please let me know when you have an argument of substance so I can address it.
Thanks for your bitchy rant, now get back to your shilling.

Ahh true, i see red text and an idiot defending BFL and assume the worst.

You'd think someone at BFL could've been bothered to change the official policy statement regarding refund policy on their website, but I guess then it wouldn't provide the CYA protection mentioned previously.

Not sure what has inspired so much hatred mem, but there are plenty of people that have been issued refunds and I'm sure that there will be more issued due to the announcement of the most recent delay.


https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/519-10-dec-2012-bfl-asic-update.html