WARNING! Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs - page 28.

jdillon

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Quote from: optimator on May 05, 2013, 02:43:19 PM

Got it. So, if I wanted, I could create a pool for micro transactions? Anyone wanting to send a micro transaction would add my node to their list and my pool would process those transactions and they would be incorporated into the blockchain when the pool found a block and the rest of the network would honor those transactions. Is that a correct understanding?

You can do that.

Mike Hearn supported making nodes advertise the fact that they were implementing this change, which would have allowed DNS seeds and similar things to be setup to find nodes that would still relay small transactions, but that has not been done.

justusranvier

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Activity: 1400

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Quote from: optimator on May 05, 2013, 02:43:19 PM

Got it. So, if I wanted, I could create a pool for micro transactions? Anyone wanting to send a micro transaction would add my node to their list and my pool would process those transactions and they would be incorporated into the blockchain when the pool found a block and the rest of the network would honor those transactions. Is that a correct understanding?Y

Yes, unless there's been a large change to the block validation rules that I am not aware of.

optimator

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Activity: 351

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Quote from: justusranvier on May 05, 2013, 02:38:02 PM

Quote from: optimator on May 05, 2013, 02:34:07 PM

Doesn't this create the possibility of a fork? Those on the 0.8.1 client will build micro transactions into the blockchain, but the 0.8.2 client won't relay those transactions?

No. according to the description this doesn't affect in any way which transactions are or are not valid in a block.

It changes which transactions an unmodified bitcoind/bitcoin-qt client will relay on the network.

Miners can put as many non-standard transaction in their blocks as they want, but without further modification the reference client will not broadcast or relay those transactions to the miners.

There's been a patch floating around for a while that removes the minimum fee needed to relay transactions; I expect something similar will exist for this change.

Got it. So, if I wanted, I could create a pool for micro transactions? Anyone wanting to send a micro transaction would add my node to their list and my pool would process those transactions and they would be incorporated into the blockchain when the pool found a block and the rest of the network would honor those transactions. Is that a correct understanding?

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Ripple might be a good way to make microtransaction denominated in Bitcoin.

wyager

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54µBTC seems like an inordinately large sum. Why not leave this up to the miners?

bitcool

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Live and enjoy experiments

Quote from: lucif on May 05, 2013, 02:23:25 PM

Bitcoin needs distributed block chain storage. This will fix everything.

Aren't bittorrent and other file sharing networks doing this already?

What's the holdups or downside?

justusranvier

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Activity: 1400

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Quote from: optimator on May 05, 2013, 02:34:07 PM

Doesn't this create the possibility of a fork? Those on the 0.8.1 client will build micro transactions into the blockchain, but the 0.8.2 client won't relay those transactions?

No. according to the description this doesn't affect in any way which transactions are or are not valid in a block.

It changes which transactions an unmodified bitcoind/bitcoin-qt client will relay on the network.

Miners can put as many non-standard transaction in their blocks as they want, but without further modification the reference client will not broadcast or relay those transactions to the miners.

There's been a patch floating around for a while that removes the minimum fee needed to relay transactions; I expect something similar will exist for this change.

BeeCoin

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

Quote from: jdillon on May 05, 2013, 01:51:20 PM

Gavin Andresen has changed the Bitcoin code

Being a decentralized system, I guess there is no such thing as "changing the Bitcoin code".
So: What is exactly affected? Only the original Bitcoin client? Or is it a change in the network / infrastructure?

Hauk

newbie

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This sounds ridicilous. Can someone better qualified than me explain why this is so severly needed and what the worst case scenario would be if we didn't do this?

With the price changes in bitcoin 0.7 cents sounds like a unreasonably large amount to cap it.

What's the problem with miners deciding what transactions they include?

optimator

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Activity: 351

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Doesn't this create the possibility of a fork? Those on the 0.8.1 client will build micro transactions into the blockchain, but the 0.8.2 client won't relay those transactions?

bitcool

legendary

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Live and enjoy experiments

Quote from: lucif on May 05, 2013, 02:23:25 PM

Litecoin and others will meet same shit if they ever become popular.

Bitcoin needs distributed block chain storage. This will fix everything.

You mean the problem of moving up the value chain? That's a nice shit to have for any coins....

lucif

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Clown prophet

Litecoin and others will meet same shit if they ever become popular.

Bitcoin needs distributed block chain storage. This will fix everything.

hello_good_sir

hero member

Activity: 1008

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This is really aggressive on Gavin's part. It shows how we've all become dependent on him. We need to fork him into obscurity, but realistically that isn't going to happen. He's a criminal and we let him become our king.

Bitcoin isn't designed for micro-transactions, but we shouldn't ban micro-transactions either. Let gradually increasing competition for space within blocks do that naturally.

I'm at a busy time in my life, otherwise I might tackle forking bitcoin and salvaging the system from His Majesty.

bitcool

legendary

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Live and enjoy experiments

Quote from: Dacm4n on May 05, 2013, 02:13:50 PM

Maybe use litecoin, that's one of the reasons it was created.

Exactly. A multiple level cryptocurrency family function better than a single coin system.

jdillon

member

Activity: 70

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Yes, the price on money transfers will be determined by free markets. It is not impossible that bitcoin will mostly be used for debt settlement and large transfers like real estate transactions and inter bank ops.

I agree with you on that point. What I do not agree with is Gavin simply making a change without informing the public or letting people have any chance to prepare in advance, nor does he have any alternatives to give people.

Dacm4n

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Activity: 363

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Quote from: mpfrank on May 05, 2013, 02:11:14 PM

Quote from: jdillon on May 05, 2013, 01:51:20 PM

Gavin Andresen has changed the Bitcoin code to block any output with a value of less than 54uBTC:
...

So, what happens when Bitcoin takes over the world economy, and 54 uBTC is worth a lot of money ($54 say)? Then Bitcoin will only be usable for large-value transactions... It will be more like the existing inter-bank wire-transfer system at that point...

Maybe use litecoin, that's one of the reasons it was created.

Birdy

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Activity: 364

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Quote from: mpfrank on May 05, 2013, 02:11:14 PM

Quote from: jdillon on May 05, 2013, 01:51:20 PM

Gavin Andresen has changed the Bitcoin code to block any output with a value of less than 54uBTC:
...

So, what happens when Bitcoin takes over the world economy, and 54 uBTC is worth a lot of money ($54 say)? Then Bitcoin will only be usable for large-value transactions... It will be more like the existing inter-bank wire-transfer system at that point...

I think a change to accept lower volumes again would be easy to get accepted by everyone.

mpfrank

sr. member

Activity: 247

Merit: 250

Cosmic Cubist

Quote from: jdillon on May 05, 2013, 01:51:20 PM

Gavin Andresen has changed the Bitcoin code to block any output with a value of less than 54uBTC:
...

So, what happens when Bitcoin takes over the world economy, and 54 uBTC is worth a lot of money ($54 say)? Then Bitcoin will only be usable for large-value transactions... It will be more like the existing inter-bank wire-transfer system at that point...

Gab1159

member

Activity: 75

Merit: 10

Quote from: lucif on May 05, 2013, 02:01:53 PM

This is Satoshi critics to existing system Bitcoin should be opposite to. They breaking the Bible.

Quote

Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot avoid mediating disputes. The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions, and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for non-reversible services.

From one patch to another, Bitcoin becomes what they try to get rid off.

Why are they doing this? Reduce lag on shitty exchanges such as GOX??

bitcoinstarter

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Activity: 484

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Quote from: lucif on May 05, 2013, 02:01:53 PM

This is Satoshi critics to existing system Bitcoin should be opposite to. They breaking the Bible.

Quote

Completely non-reversible transactions are not really possible, since financial institutions cannot avoid mediating disputes. The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions, and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for non-reversible services.

From one path to another, Bitcoin becomes what they try to get rid off.

^^this^^

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