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Topic: We can breath now. - page 3. (Read 6310 times)

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 05, 2013, 10:04:28 AM
#29
Or is it the other way around?

Hey man!

Don't question deathcode's wishful thinking/paradigms/pseudo knowledge!

If you do, then it is because you are an idiot that knows nothing about Bitcoin!

Instead, you should just accept the reassurances of the most arrogant pig headed clown on the whole forum (with a nose made perfect for being punched, may I add). If he says everything is just fine, then everything is just fine! Understand?
Prove me wrong once! and if you're the violent type I guess I'm touched a nerve or something uh?
The beauty of making unprovable claims is that you can't be proven wrong, either.
None of my claims are unprovable.
Then prove to me that the DoS caused a panic sell.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
April 05, 2013, 09:47:34 AM
#28
If the free market is healthy it shouldn't stabilise until the coins are distributed among all the participants in the economy. (IE. The price should stabilise when Bitcoin adoption is complete)

There are no free lunches, all Bitcoin nouveau riche, including me, are parasites on the Bitcoin economy.

A stable price before full adoption is reflective of an artificial balance, and implies supply and demand will have no affect on the Bitcoin economy.   


Bitcoin economy by itself is a parasite of the fiat economy so i don't see your point.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 05, 2013, 09:31:18 AM
#27
Or is it the other way around?

Hey man!

Don't question deathcode's wishful thinking/paradigms/pseudo knowledge!

If you do, then it is because you are an idiot that knows nothing about Bitcoin!

Instead, you should just accept the reassurances of the most arrogant pig headed clown on the whole forum (with a nose made perfect for being punched, may I add). If he says everything is just fine, then everything is just fine! Understand?
Prove me wrong once! and if you're the violent type I guess I'm touched a nerve or something uh?
The beauty of making unprovable claims is that you can't be proven wrong, either.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
April 05, 2013, 08:30:53 AM
#26
There are no free lunches, all Bitcoin nouveau riche, including me, are parasites on the Bitcoin economy.

I agree. The price will stabilize when it will be high enough for YOU to sell most of your coins. It will stabilize when YOU will seriously consider buying this Ferrari you used to look at on magazines, or any other stuff bitcoin early adopters can buy today.

Just for the record I was grouping myself with the parasites, I dumped most of my coins for an average of $13
legendary
Activity: 1133
Merit: 1163
Imposition of ORder = Escalation of Chaos
April 05, 2013, 05:25:02 AM
#25
Don't question deathcode's wishful thinking/paradigms/pseudo knowledge!

If you do, then it is because you are an idiot that knows nothing about Bitcoin!

Instead, you should just accept the reassurances of the most arrogant pig headed clown on the whole forum (with a nose made perfect for being punched, may I add). If he says everything is just fine, then everything is just fine! Understand?

So your contribution to the forum is now following deathcode around and calling him names? Grin

As for stability of Bitcoin prices I think simple maturity will do wonders for stability. Each time some early adopter/big hoarder decides to cash out and drops a big amount of BTC on the exchanges, it gets divided between more and more people. Less people with comparatively big holdings of BTC --> the less volatility. Also the bigger the market cap, the less of a hiccup caused by someone deciding to buy a huge amount.

Meanwhile Gox needs to get its shit together and improve their engine, other exchanges need to step up so we have a bit more healthy competition.

The best option imo would be a trustworthy method of direct P2P exchange. No idea how to pull this off, though. Maybe a crowdfunded public exchange (as has been mentioned in wall observer thread) would do the trick, but it would still represent a certain degree of centralization. Best to just provide a way how to connect buyers/sellers and let them figure out how to do their transactions themselves.
member
Activity: 117
Merit: 10
April 05, 2013, 02:50:23 AM
#24
Could the DoS attach actually be all the new users trying to login at the same time?
I'm pretty sure gox could handle the traffic if that was all it was. More likely it is some traders looking to make quick profits by shutting gox down temporarily.
full member
Activity: 159
Merit: 100
April 05, 2013, 02:47:35 AM
#23
Stability will come with maturation.
The market is still tiny, where even single individuals dumping or buying their moderate fortunes can drive the price up or down a few dollars. It takes only a few thousand individuals together to drive the price up or down 10-20% in a matter of hours.

With a much bigger market, we will get more stability.

Secondly, in this early phase of mass growth, stability will never happen. The price should in fact increase at a dramatic rate, as it does. The whole world is learning about bitcoins and jumping in for various reasons (ideals, quick profit, etc). The rate may feel uncomfortable, but it will stabilize eventually. Probably, we will overshoot a stable value at first, and oscillate around it for a bit at a large scale (as we do now on a smaller scale after every spike/dip), but eventually, we you should settle around a more or less stable price eventually. This moment is still years away though.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
April 04, 2013, 09:06:24 PM
#22
Could the DoS attach actually be all the new users trying to login at the same time?
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
April 04, 2013, 09:03:19 PM
#21
If the free market is healthy it shouldn't stabilise until the coins are distributed among all the participants in the economy. (IE. The price should stabilise when Bitcoin adoption is complete)

There are no free lunches, all Bitcoin nouveau riche, including me, are parasites on the Bitcoin economy.

A stable price before full adoption is reflective of an artificial balance, and implies supply and demand will have no affect on the Bitcoin economy.   
member
Activity: 80
Merit: 10
April 04, 2013, 02:40:35 PM
#20
My answer is decentralized exchanges. A peer-to-peer decentralized exchange, like bitcoin.

How to make this work? I have no idea. One of the awesome coders here will have to figure that nightmare out...

However, if Bitcoin is the answer to our monetary problems today, then a P2P exchange is clearly the answer to our centralized exchange problem.

...Just like Bittorrent is the answer to our restricted information problems.

...Just like Mesh Networking will be the answer to our Centralized ISP problem.

...Just like DEFCAD Search will be the answer to our restricted products problem.

I believe that the answer to every major problem facing us today, in all walks of life from medicine to economics to space exploration, is always to make a Peer-to-peer solution and those who care about the problem will indeed solve it.

+1 for a lovely post.  Can anyone +1 on this forum?  I cannot. 
 Here's an imaginary canary then.  Enjoy!
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 04, 2013, 02:28:40 PM
#19
...the most arrogant pig headed clown on the whole forum...

He'll have to work for that title. There are some pretty arrogant, pig-headed clowns who occasionally troll the Politics subforum. I think I've chased the worst of them off, though. So, you may be right, he might be the most arrogant, pig-headed clown left on the forum, but I doubt even that.
copper member
Activity: 1428
Merit: 253
April 04, 2013, 01:37:41 PM
#19
DoS attacks are the cause. Did you read the MTGox statement?
I must have missed the most recent one, but DoS attacks against Gox are nothing new.

They are under heavy DoS attacks all the time. The exchange goes down, people panic sell, other try to buy cheap coins = high volume, lag, and more panic selling...
That's kinda my point, They're under DoS all the time. This means that it probably wouldn't take much increased volume to tip it over. The kind of increased volume that results from a panic sell....

Not all DoS attacks are the same. some are bigger, some smaller, some are uncoordinated, some are successful and some aren't
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
April 04, 2013, 02:16:35 PM
#18
Or is it the other way around?

Hey man!

Don't question deathcode's wishful thinking/paradigms/pseudo knowledge!

If you do, then it is because you are an idiot that knows nothing about Bitcoin!

Instead, you should just accept the reassurances of the most arrogant pig headed clown on the whole forum (with a nose made perfect for being punched, may I add). If he says everything is just fine, then everything is just fine! Understand?
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
April 04, 2013, 02:15:09 PM
#17
Why would the stability of Bitcoins depend on exchanges at all in the future?

Why wouldn't it?
it's been proven twice that when MTGox was down or lagging like crazy, bitcoin went down due to panic sell off...


But then again when any new mining tech comes out the price soars which makes Gox lag...
So the actual cause of the instabilities is the reckless introduction of new mining hardware.


do not confuse an instability in the exchange with the introduction of new mining hardware. They are not related.

That at the most will create instability of a different nature.
The one we experienced yesterday was due to DoS attacks.

I think those panic sell offs are a sign of how small the market still is.
Most of the recent sell offs (and there were quite a few) were not related to attacks at all.
Almost all of the recent action in bitcoinland is related to ASICs being so much faster at mining than older hardware.
That includes the price rise and DOS attacks, but also the rise in interest and the stream of new users.
Just saying...
copper member
Activity: 1428
Merit: 253
April 04, 2013, 01:25:21 PM
#17
Why would the stability of Bitcoins depend on exchanges at all in the future?

Why wouldn't it?
it's been proven twice that when MTGox was down or lagging like crazy, bitcoin went down due to panic sell off...


But then again when any new mining tech comes out the price soars which makes Gox lag...
So the actual cause of the instabilities is the reckless introduction of new mining hardware.


do not confuse an instability in the exchange with the introduction of new mining hardware. They are not related.

That at the most will create instability of a different nature.
The one we experienced yesterday was due to DoS attacks.
hero member
Activity: 526
Merit: 508
My other Avatar is also Scrooge McDuck
April 04, 2013, 02:12:34 PM
#16
My answer is decentralized exchanges. A peer-to-peer decentralized exchange, like bitcoin.

How to make this work? I have no idea. One of the awesome coders here will have to figure that nightmare out...

However, if Bitcoin is the answer to our monetary problems today, then a P2P exchange is clearly the answer to our centralized exchange problem.

...Just like Bittorrent is the answer to our restricted information problems.

...Just like Mesh Networking will be the answer to our Centralized ISP problem.

...Just like DEFCAD Search will be the answer to our restricted products problem.

I believe that the answer to every major problem facing us today, in all walks of life from medicine to economics to space exploration, is always to make a Peer-to-peer solution and those who care about the problem will indeed solve it.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 04, 2013, 01:54:38 PM
#15
DoS attacks are the cause. Did you read the MTGox statement?
I must have missed the most recent one, but DoS attacks against Gox are nothing new.

They are under heavy DoS attacks all the time. The exchange goes down, people panic sell, other try to buy cheap coins = high volume, lag, and more panic selling...
That's kinda my point, They're under DoS all the time. This means that it probably wouldn't take much increased volume to tip it over. The kind of increased volume that results from a panic sell....

Not all DoS attacks are the same. some are bigger, some smaller, some are uncoordinated, some are successful and some aren't

OK, let me ask you this:

If your exchange experienced a brief outage, your next action as soon as it comes back online is to:
A) Sell all your bitcoins;
B) Buy as many as you can with your available fiat; or
C) Do nothing.

If anything, the DoS caused a delay in the web interface, causing sell and buy orders to be executed automatically before they could be modified. Thus, when the exchange came back, the price had already moved as much as it was going to.
copper member
Activity: 1428
Merit: 253
April 04, 2013, 01:22:23 PM
#15
Why would the stability of Bitcoins depend on exchanges at all in the future?

Why wouldn't it?
it's been proven twice that when MTGox was down or lagging like crazy, bitcoin went down due to panic sell off...


Or is it the other way around?
You don't read announcements uh?
But did panic selling bring it down, or did it going down cause panic selling?

I'd hardly believe that a temporary outage - even of the biggest exchange - would cause people to freak out and try and sell... but it's a well known fact that high volume will drag Gox under.

DoS attacks are the cause. Did you read the MTGox statement?
They are under heavy DoS attacks all the time. The exchange goes down, people panic sell, other try to buy cheap coins = high volume, lag, and more panic selling...
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
April 04, 2013, 01:52:31 PM
#14
my vote is less exchanges, not more - you'll see smaller swings but of course mt gox needs fixing.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 04, 2013, 01:31:32 PM
#13
DoS attacks are the cause. Did you read the MTGox statement?
I must have missed the most recent one, but DoS attacks against Gox are nothing new.

They are under heavy DoS attacks all the time. The exchange goes down, people panic sell, other try to buy cheap coins = high volume, lag, and more panic selling...
That's kinda my point, They're under DoS all the time. This means that it probably wouldn't take much increased volume to tip it over. The kind of increased volume that results from a panic sell....
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