Topic: WEX.nz - page 20. (Read 62393 times)

Is it possible to use WEX.nz to retrieve your BTC-e coins if you are in the US? I clicked a "BTC-e refund" link and ended up at WEX but despite recognizing my account they needed me to verify yet wouldn't let me select the US (which is described in their User Agreement).  Are there any remaining options to access BTC-e accounts in the US?

Do you have to be verified in order to obtain the 1:1 token payback? As WEX buys back more and more tokens will the ratio get closer and closer to 1 rather than .5 what is is now?

Thank you for your reply. However, I think you made some assumptions that are contrary to  basic legal principles for Wex’s takeover of the BTCe Exchange.
And, your statements that WEX did not obtain any Client Funds and that they have no liability for Client accounts is also contrary to WEX’s posted Update 5 on August 9,2017 and Update 6 on August 14,2017.
 
I agree, WEX is not BTCe. They apparently agreed to take over certain assets “OWNED” by BTCe, such as business operations, goodwill, computer related assets, etc. I would guess WEX did not assume any of BTCe’s “General” Liabilities which would include obligations to pay Loans, and Accounts Payable for goods and services purchased, etc. etc.
 
However, they did take over Custody of Client Assets. A custodial account is an asset of the Owner of the account, it is not owned by the Exchange (Wex nor BTCe). As such, the Exchange holds the asset for the Owner and has a liability to the Owner by “Legal Definition” of it being held in “Custody”. BTCe could only sell or transfer the business operations (Goodwill, Computer related assets, etc.) to Wex ,it could not sell the Client’s Assets since BTCe did not own the Client Assets. Wex stepped in the shoes of being a Custodian and thus has a corresponding Liability to the Client Owner. You can’t be a Custodian of an asset without also having a liability to the Owner of the asset. It’s a basic Legal Principle.
 
With regards to your comment that the FBI is in possession of my asset, that is not correct (See WEX update statements below). True, that the FBI confiscated a certain amount of assets and assessed a Fine to be paid from the confiscated assets. And if the FBI took and retained 100% of the assets, then WEX would not have offered to pay 55% of a Clients account that could be withdrawn by the Client Plus tokens equal to 45%,thus acknowledging 100% (55% +45%) liability to Client’s. If WEX did not receive any of the Client assets they would have offered ZERO to the Clients since there would be no assets to back up the accounts. Therefore, if WEX received 55% of a Clients account Funds they have a liability to that Client for that amount. 
See extract of WEX’s August 9 & 14,2017 updates 5 & 6 below where they confirm they received 55% of the Clients Funds and Clients will have opportunity to withdraw the 55% in Funds:
Per WEX update #5 .......“Last 14 days we were engaged in struggle for your means, it was possible to gain control over 55% of funds, the remaining 45% are arrested funds, the most part in fiat.“
Per WEX update #5 .......“Upon all recalculations, all users will have the opportunity to withdraw 55% of their funds from the system”.
Per WEX update #6........ “For each currency, a recalculation will be made, for each individual account available assets.
At the moment 55% of funds are available, so 55% will be returned for all currencies, and 45% will be converted to currency in tokens.”
 
See WEX’s August 9, 2017 update #5 below, where they state 45% of the funds are  ”arrested”, meaning 45% is used to pay the fine and WEX will credit the Client with the 45% shortage to make them whole at 100% with “Tokens” (55% in Funds + 45% in Tokens):
Per WEX update #5  ........“If you have a balance in BTE, then you will be credited with 45% in Tokens”
 Accordingly, WEX has confirmed they received and are in control of 55% of the Clients Funds. And, they have confirmed they have a liability to the Clients for 55% in Funds and 45% in Tokens.
I trust this clarification is helpful.

They used the significantly lower rates of the debt tokens to buy them back on the market, and thus lower their active debt without paying the full 1:1 price. In other words, people who put their coins in the market, will never get 1:1 as WEX will buy these debt tokens at current rates. You will only get paid the full 1:1 ratio (if ever) if you patiently keep them in your account. It was to be expected, and honestly, you can't blame them for buying back their debt at far lower rates. All tokens move below the 0.6 level, and some even below 0.5 currently.

https://wex.nz/news/4

I am not sure what they mean by percentage redeemed, does that mean taken out of circulation by WEX buying them back at market not 1:1 ?

I'm in no way endorsing WEX, and really sorry for what you are coming through, but you have to take some things into consideration.

From legal standpoint WEX is not BTC-e and even though they obtained BTC-e's digital assets (database and cold wallet) they did not took liabilities of BTC-e. Restoring btc associated with previous BTC-e accounts was done out of their good will (i.e. WEX wanted to continue being exchange, so they figured they will pay back to some of their users instead of just leaving with tons of BTC that will be really painful to cash). Basically this means that you are in a limbo - all obligations to store your property (afaik BTCs are considered a property, not funds in US) was taken by BTC-e and FBI siezed their assets (so legally speaking your property now is in FBI posession even though it is in form of encrypted and probably long time emptied cold wallet key). Meanwhile WEX denies (and probably will continue to deny) any responsibility even though they took over after BTC-e's demise.

I am in the same situation since I am a US citizen. Wex has blocked my account which, originally was with BTCe. I requested Wex to return the funds in my account since I cannot maintain an account in the future under their new requirements for US citizens.

Wex made arrangements to take over the former BTCe client accounts.
Each client asset account has a corresponding custodial liability that they assumed along with the assets. From a legal standpoint, Wex is acting as a custodian for their clients’ funds. As such,  they have a legal liability to return funds to the client upon request. If Wex refuses to return client’s funds, I would deem it to be an act of fraud and theft. Wex is not the legal owner of said funds, and therefore, has no legal right to keep those funds for their own account.

They are using the excuse that the account is blocked if the client is a US citizen. If the account is blocked, then the client cannot access the account and process a withdrawal or any other type of transaction.
The reality is that it is not necessary for the client to actually process the withdrawal. All the client should need to do is make a request for withdrawal to the Wex exchange.  The Wex administrators have the ability to access all accounts and process any clients withdrawal request, regardless if they are a US citizen or not. If necessary, Wex can get pre-approval  from the appropriate regulators.

I believe there should be coordinated effort to submit complaints to a governmental/regulatory agency.
Does anyone have suggestions what agencies to submit complaints to?

yes, it's easy to understand ! but when you don't see your country in verification list , it's scary  

As long as you don't deposit/withdraw fiat, there is basically no need to verify yourself, unless they suddenly change their terms and force even those who don't deal with fiat deposits/withdrawals to verify themselves.

WEX does however force you to verify yourself when you request an email change, shut off 2FA, removing white listed IP's, and of course the afore mentioned fiat deposits/withdrawals ~ easy to understand, right?

what will happened if we don't verify at wex.nz? they force us to verify later ? or just in security problem we need to verify??

There is actually topic to sue them for this https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-international-lawsuit-against-weznz-btc-ecom-join-if-you-are-scammed-2307553 .

Just being persistent with emails to support. When they replied with something that didn't make sense I just said so politely and re-stated my concern. My BTC sum was small, maybe that has something to do with why I was successful, but hopefully they will get around to sorting this out for everyone who was affected.

can you please share how you were able to convince them to refund the missing quote .

Got a response from support today, they added the BTC that I quoted as having gone missing to my account!

Hope this gives hope to all others who are waiting for missing BTC to reappear after verification.

I still don't have the BTCET that should have accompanied my BTC but will be asking for that too.

This is why it would have been advisable to leave with the 55% back when they were still BTC-e. I felt when watching everything unfold in September, that they were hinting that it was not safe for US users to move forward. It was only logical to assume that WEX would prohibit US customers, although I wish they had been more forthright about it before the launch of the new site.


That's an interesting take, and I'm tempted to agree. But it's also important to note that the indictment was brought in January 2017, and was merely unsealed when they arrested Vinnik in Greece. That means they probably investigated the exchange for months prior to proceeding with the indictment, back to 2016 or even earlier. So while the press release and media have sensationalized the Russian angle, it seems that the feds were looking into BTC-e under Obama, long before all this Russiaphobia began to come to a head around the Trump election.


Bitfinex is definitely an interesting test case. They've pushed the envelope with Tether and their BFX tokens (both arguably derivatives or securities), and the whole Wells Fargo / banking fiasco gives me the shivers. I'm hoping for the best, but I would stay away from there myself.

I am from the usa and have no problem with them banning us. But taking all of our coins and not giving any of them back is a definite no no. That's straight up stealing and justice will be served one way or another.

I think BTC-e got targeted before Bitfinex because they were run by Russians. The Admin on BTC-e said it was political, probably referring to the Russiaphobia that's been dominating the US media since Trump got in. The DoJ press release started off with "Russian National" as the first two words in the headline before mentioning the actual topic. https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/russian-national-and-bitcoin-exchange-charged-21-count-indictment-operating-alleged

Bitfinex might be getting out of the US just in time, though I doubt they are being targeted because they are not "Russian Nationals".

Remember, though: BTC-e was indicted for operating an unlicensed money service business and fined $110 million for it. Bitfinex has been doing exactly that---with no MSB licenses in any of the 50 states---for something like 5 years. They are pulling out of the market now that law enforcement moved against BTC-e and regulators (like the CFTC and SEC) are ruling on ICO tokens. But we'll have to see if it's too little too late. I suspect that the various US agencies are months or even years into investigating Bitfinex. Pulling out of the market now doesn't erase past violations.

This isn't the wild west anymore. It's possible that exchanges might get away with flouting the law in the early years. To do so now is suicide for any company that wants to remain in existence five years from now. The message to exchanges operating in the US is clear: get proper licensing, or get out.

Good, now you can stop posting here.

All scammers. Coins are gone and no email answers.