Topic: What do you think about 9/11 mystery? - page 22. (Read 54943 times)

Hard to judge. He's stubborn enough. Of course, that could only be because it's a free forum, and he is attempting to build or sharpen his skills. It's the other characters that I question even more... the ones who jump in with a line or two against inside job, but don't have anything meaningful to say. Seems like they simply want to use up space to push the facts that we write up into the realm of the forgotten. After all, many forum readers jump to the last post in a topic, and barely look at what came before. But Spendy does this, as well.

He is not a good enough shill to be a professional. Probably just a freelance ideologue.

All people are evil in some ways. Why would Silverman be left out? Or you and I for that matter?

It's the other way around. The question is, why would anyone sing "like a bird" when he is being paid not to, and when it would mean his execution by the MOB or the CIA, or possibly even your so-called evil Jews, if he were to talk?

The official story conspiracy theory has fewer facts than most of the major conspiracy theories. I expect that there are some conspiracy theories that hold little water. But the fact that 9/11 was an inside job isn't one of them.

The question surrounding you and your stance that the official story is nearly correct is, are you simply a funny farm person? or are you a paid government propagandist? C'mon! Answer straight out!

Yes, because I understand physics completely enough to know anything else is impossible. There is tons of other evidence as well, but most of it is debatable forever and ever, which I know is your goal to avoid hard evidence such as this. This is not up for debate, it is a fact.

You sound like a parrot. I did not just cite large amounts that could have been made by the government, I also listed off many private financial organizations that had a lot to gain from this event going down as well. It is becoming increasingly clear you aren't even skimming any of the information I present. Afraid you might learn something you won't like? Perhaps you are reviewing this information and choose to maintain your facade of willful ignorance. Again, you never explained where this mythical  payout comes from. Also you never explained how that person keeps from catching a bullet after they collect.

By your logic, any time there is a massive pay out there is no chance of keeping a secret. If that is the case, how do companies develop new super profitable products and keep them secret? That often involves thousands of people. How are they all kept quiet when a payday is just a phone call away? I am seeing a few gaping holes in your logic here. Really I shouldn't call it logic though, I should call it knee jerk reactionary conditioning to information that causes cognitive dissonance resulting from your confirmation bias.

Who exactly is offering all this money for this "secret". A "secret" by the way that was known by most of the world's intelligence agencies before the attack even happened. The only people in the dark are people like you, and people who get their information from a talking head in their glowing box. The real powers that be do not consider this event a mystery.

Again, let me explain how conspiracies are kept quiet.

COMPARTMENTALIZATION

This is a strategy practiced for thousands of years, from military and intelligence agencies, to private enterprise. The idea is that each individual involved on the project is only given as much information as they need to complete a tiny portion of the project. Either they are told nothing or they are given an alternate explanation, also known as a cover story, for what they are working on. In this way most individuals working on the project will believe something else other than the reality of the project, and the ones who don't will not have enough information to figure out what the end goal is themselves let alone prove it to anyone else.


NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS

These are used widely in business as well as government. As you might know, Hillary Clinton is currently being investigated for breaking a non-disclosure agreement with the US government over the fact that she mishandled classified information. These agreements are designed to keep individuals who do have actionable information from sharing that information with third parties under threat of severe criminal or civil liabilities. If it is going to cost an individual everything they own as well as their careers to share specific information, they are unlikely to do so. Even if they do, the courts might very well aid in suppressing that information as it was illegally obtained.


MILITARY HIERARCHY

In combination with the above two methods, many of the individuals likely involved were in the military or intelligence communities. If they had any information that was counter to the official narrative, disclosing it would be an instant end to their careers and possibly their freedom regardless of its validity considering the sensitive nature of their work. Whistle blowers within these organizations do not fair well.


BRIBES

I don't really need to explain this one very much. People with information are told to keep quiet and they will become very rich. If offered this option, most people take it because they know it is better that the alternatives that follow...


THREATS

Threats usually take the form of violence, ending ones career, violence against ones family, their livelihoods, and other forms of harassment and marginalization. These can also take the form of financial domination. For example if the targeted individual has a mortgage, and you have a large pool of resources to pull from, you could simply buy the mortgage from the bank and then call in the debt forcing the individual and his family out of their homes. There are a million different ways this type of pressure can be applied.


FRAMING

If threats and bribes don't work, often disruptive individuals are simply framed for a crime. A popular tactic for this one is using child pornography. It has been reported by many activists that they have been e-mailed PDF files under some pretext later to find that these files contained a trojan virus that automatically downloads child pornography to their computer, instantly creating legal liability for them. Some individuals were able to take care of this problem before it was too late, others not. At this point it is simply a matter of sending a SWAT team to the targets home and their life is over. Furthermore anyone who ends up in prison relating to any kind of pedophilia charges is in for a short and painfully horrible life. Of course people are framed using other types of crimes as well, other popular tactics are planting drugs or accusations of rape, both which can be done quite easily with a single participant willing to do so.


SILENCE BY DEATH

This category is usually the last option after the others have failed unless the information held is so sensitive that they skip right over the others to make sure it never gets out, this is a rare circumstance though. Often this category is filled with ideologues who refuse to be bribed or intimidated, and take careful steps not to be framed by their aggressors. The object of killing the target this way is to dampen any questions about why the individual ended up dead, so as to not create more inquiries into their life and involvements before death. Usually these individuals are killed in such a way to make it appear as an accident, overdose, suicide, or other natural causes. There are drugs and devices which can induce heart attack and stroke which are not detectable under a standard coroner screen, and some which are completely undetectable. Overdoses can be as simple as slipping something into a targets dinner, then posthumously planting paraphernalia around the victim to make it appear self administered. The seemingly most popular way is what is commonly known as being "suicided", where an individual is murdered in such a way to make it appear as a suicide. This can be done by throwing some one off of a building, hanging the target, etc. Needless to say there are many ways this goal can be achieved.



Speaking of suspicious deaths, here is a small list of individuals who were tied to the events of 9/11 who ended up dead for one reason or another:

David Wherley Jr. - A General in charge of the 113th Fighter Wing at Andrews Air Force base, in Maryland who ordered fighter jets to scramble on 9/11.

Kenneth Johannemann - Kenny Johannemann worked as a part-time janitor in the World Trade Center when it was attacked and destroyed on September 11, 2001.

Barry_Jennings - He was the Deputy Director of the Emergency Services Department for the New York City Housing Authority. He was rescued from WTC Building 7 before it fell.

Beverly Eckert - A prominent spokeswoman for the families of 9/11 victims after her husband was killed in the attacks.

Job W. Price Commander Job W. Price was assigned as the commander of SEAL Team 4, a Naval Special Warfare unit based in Virginia Beach, Va. He was best known for being part of the team that found and then killed Osama bin Laden. 17 members of the SEAL team responsible for finding and killing Osama Bin Laden were killed shortly after the raid under suspicious circumstances when their helicopter was attacked with an RPG.

Michael H. Doran - Mr. Doran was a 9/11 victims lawyer who volunteered his services to help the victims of the 9/11 attacks receive compensation.

Christopher Landis - Christopher Landis was Operations Manager for Safety Service Patrol at the VDOT (Virginia Department of Transportation). He was responsible for road safety, road closures and maintenance of light poles.

Paul Smith - Pilot of WABC7’s 9/11 “International Shot” Chopper.

John P. O’Neill - The former head of the FBI's flagship antiterrorism unit in New York City, O'Neill had investigated the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Africa and the USS Cole in Yemen. For six years, he led the fight to track down and prosecute Al Qaeda operatives throughout the world. But his flamboyant, James Bond style and obsession with Osama bin Laden made him a controversial figure inside the buttoned-down world of the FBI. Just two weeks before Sept. 11, O'Neill left the bureau for a job in the private sector -- as head of security at the World Trade Center. He died there after rushing back into the burning towers to aid in the rescue efforts.

Deborah Palfrey - Also known as "The D.C. Madam". Ran an escort service which catered to many suspected to be complicit in the 9/11 attacks.

Perry Kucinich - Brother of Congressman Dennis Kucinich who advocated a new 9/11 investigation.

Salvatore Princiotta - 9/11 FDNY Firefighter from Ladder 9.

Ezra Harel - Chairman of the Israeli Company That Handled Security For All 9/11 Airports.

Bruce Ivins - Burce Ivins worked at the government's Fort Detrick lab on anthrax vaccines. He was questioned by the FBI during its seven-year investigation of the anthrax killings and was involved in the analysis of samples from the mailings that contained anthrax.

David Graham - Up until his death in September 2006, Dr. Graham insisted someone poisoned him two years earlier, likely with propylene glycol (anti-freeze) as he tried to publish a book. That book claimed he met two 9/11 hijackers a year before September 11th and feared the men intended to target Barksdale Air Force Base.

Philip Marshall -  Marshall was not just any 9/11 conspiracy author. A former airline pilot, Marshall was a close associate of notorious CIA drug smuggler Barry Seal, and a peripheral player in the New Orleans CIA/crime nexus that killed JFK, Martin Luther King, and many others. Madsen suggests that Marshall, a long-time participant in covert operations, developed a penchant for truth during the last years of his life. Dead in a purported murder suicide, official reports state he first shot his two children, and then the family dog before killing himself. Who shoots the family dog in a murder suicide? That sounds a lot more like a raid to me.

Prasanna Kalahasthi - A 25 year old USC dental student married to Pendyala Vamsikrishna, a Flight 11 passenger. She killed herself approximately one month after 9/11 in her Los Angeles apartment even though friends say she was ‘in good spirits and determined to finish dental school.’ Not only was this suicide shocking and difficult to understand, but the alleged victim’s husband, Pendyala Vamsikrishna of India, was never even listed on the original Flight 11 manifest, only appearing later as a passenger on a couple of conflicting unofficial lists.

Katherine Smith - She sold IDs to five of the hijackers, was “smothered with gasoline and “firebombed” in her car one day before she was scheduled to testify.

Benazir Bhutto - Bhutto may have signed her own death warrant with the famous statement (censored by the BBC) that Bin Laden was murdered by Saeed Sheikh. Her remarks pulled the rug from under Bush’s official 911 conspiracy theory.

Hunter S Thompson - He’d been working on a story about the World Trade Center attacks and had stumbled across what he felt was hard evidence showing the towers had been brought down not by the airplanes that flew into them but by explosive charges set off in their foundations. Now he thought someone was out to stop him publishing it. The night before his death, he called a friend and said:  “They’re gonna make it look like suicide, I know how these bastards think . . .”



Again this is just a short list, there are so many more people who had direct ties to the 9/11 attacks, were eye witnesses to inconsistencies in the official story, or were proponents for investigating the events who died under suspicious circumstances.

So you've accused Silverman of being an Evil Jew who murdered over 3000 people for fun and profit, but you can't explain why and how in this massive conspiracy not one single person would have sung like a bird for a cool billion dollars?

You have no facts and your conspiracy theory is a rather crappy one, isn't it?  Do you seriously expect to sling mud around like that and not get caught red handed at it?

Who am I to question what you believe? If you believe little green aliens came down and whisked you off to their planet for an interview with their pet goddess, who am I to question it? The funny farms are full of people who believe all kinds of things. Let 'em believe. Even respect their beliefs in them.

When the events of 9/11 are examined in as much detail as we can examine them, there is clearly a coverup by government and the media. Stuff doesn't happen the way the official government report suggests. The fact that the materials of the Towers were destroyed long before they could be carefully examined, shows that the inside job is rooted in the highest parts of government. The fact that Silverman was involved in the Towers as the owner, shows that he was involved in the whole thing, as well.

Do you literally write your stuff from a funny farm?

I don't believed you've adequately answered my question about how you have a massive conspiracy with a billion dollar payout to anyone who talks, and then nobody talks.  Even though you'd like to point the finger at the Evil Jew Silverman, your theory is bullshit, unless you can show how the lid could be kept on such a thing.

Evil Jews, Murderers in the US Government, the least guilty is hard working Arab Muslims....Yep, you are a propagandist for Muslims.  Does it pay well?

You are starting to catch on! Terrorists aren't your hard-working, average, everyday people. They are the idle rich, and people in governments, who are attempting to steal from the workers. All that you are trying to do is get people to think that it was some stupid, everyday, hard-working Arab Muslims that were the 9/11 terrorists. You are so far off base with this that you are completely in a different game... one that barely has any facts in it at all.

As they say, hope is the second last one to die in a man's life

Lets hope Trump will expose all these secrets and corrupt politicians

There's currently a lawsuit that says some of the terrorists were high up officials in the Saudi Arabian government.  Sounds to me like you are just repeating Anti-US propaganda.

Claiming a win even before stating the time, LOL....

I'm good then with using the claim of 9.2 to 10 seconds.  Not saying I agree with it, but I'll use it when analyzing the physics to see if the physics disproves your claim of that explosives were "required."

No you don't.  And I don't need your agreement.  And pointing out the net sum "to the government" possible from 911 doesn't have anything to do with the motivations of an individual, and the amount he personally could have got for ratting out scoundrels, if there were some.

Sounds like a conspiracy with thousands of people staying quiet for the rest of their lives.  Sounds rather unlikely, really.  Someone would have talked.  We know enough about conspiracies and secret plots of various sorts to know that it's impossible to keep people quiet.  And that's even if there were a half dozen or a dozen people involved.  Thousands?

Bah.

This is true. It's just that some of the terrorists in this tragedy were high-up officials in the U.S. government.

The fact is you have no counter argument to the fact that the laws of physics prevents the building from falling at free fall speeds with anything other than explosives. On top of that the fact that all 3 buildings came down directly into their own footprint is again counter to Newtons 3rd law. The fact is the buildings WERE EXTREMELY OVER ENGINEERED. They were able to withstand 2000% of its own load. They did this specifically so if there was damage it would be redistributed via the other supports and NOT cause a collapse, so this fact is very relevant regardless of what you want to explore to distract from these facts and avoid this topic with more tertiary discussion.

Not 10 seconds plus or minus .8 seconds. The video analysis says 9.2 seconds. The 9/11 commission report says 10 seconds. That gives us a MAXIMUM of 10 seconds, that is unless you think the official congressional inquiry into the subject was not accurate enough for you. Nice try attempting to edge in another second to endlessly dither over, not that it would help.

Underwriters aren't bullet proof. Furthermore I already gave you examples of how this process would net FAR MORE money than 4 billion dollars by covering up criminal market activity, tax fraud, and gold rigging let alone a plethora of other scams based on this event. If your only argument is it is too much money, then that is bullshit too because various organizations easily netted TRILLIONS of dollars over this event. So you are telling me successful conspiracy plots are recorded and on the books for your convenient analysis? Please, grow a brain. Also I never said ALL of the conspirators got murdered. Most of them were probably in the military and intelligence communities and know better than to open their mouths. I don't give a fuck what you buy, I am not here to convince you. I am here to force you to dance around your bullshit and lies and demonstrate to the world what a shill you are. The laws of physics prove you wrong, I don't need your agreement.

Did you pay someone a $billion to talk?   

Well, as I have already noted, we have not yet discussed the "initial cause."  EG, the first floor failing.  And I don't see any reason to consider claims for massive over engineering to be credible reasons to not explore the strength myself.

I guess that means that the number to work with is 10 seconds plus or minus 0.8.


Well, what do you think the underwriters for the insurance company would have paid out to have hard evidence that the loss was fraudulent?  So that they didn't have to pay out $4B?

25% isn't unusual.  Like when they pay to get stolen paintings back.

And no way I am buying an assertion that some huge conspiracy could be covered up, with these kinds of dollars at stake.  Not buying that all the conspirators got murdered either.  Looking at the history of successful and failed conspiracies and plots, that doesn't work.

Under the right conditions... you mean like if the laws of physics didn't apply? There is ONLY ONE WAY this could have happened, if the supports were COMPLETELY REMOVED. There is NO OTHER WAY that they could offer no resistance. It is physically impossible. Of course you would disagree with the laws of physics, it might hurt the narrative you are trying to shill otherwise.

You are oversimplifying a building that was over engineered to withstand 2000% of its own mass to the point of being asinine. How do all these thousands of supports just magically shear themselves in such precise timing that they offer zero resistance? Why would the first floor shear? There was no impact there, and any claimed fires were momentary at most. The first floor is the STRONGEST PART of the building. Additionally the fall is clearly initiated from the point of impact, not from the bottom, so your bullshit makes zero sense.

The weight from above COULD NOT have sheered the supports as I have demonstrated in several ways including references to the over engineering of the building, it being designed to withstand plane impacts, locations of localized damage, testimony from the actual engineers on the project, as well as the laws of physics which deem your scenario impossible under Newton's 3rd law, let alone others. Even if your ninja friends some how sheered the supports, there would STILL BE RESISTANCE if it were a collapse, slowing the momentum of the fall. You are disregarding so many laws of physics your excuses are reaching epic levels of retardation.

Of course you don't want to go look at the reports, it is much easier to feign ignorance if you don't actually look at any references. Additionally I already answered your question, you are just asking it again to avoid the points as usual.


Its called compartmentalization. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. It managed to keep the Manhattan project a secret, as well as many other sensitive operations. Then for anyone who does get a big mouth there is always a bullet to the head, and there were plenty of those going around after 9/11 for people who talked too much.


So who is offering this mythical billion dollar payout? Additionally, I think you will find a bullet to the head is a lot cheaper than a billion dollars. What is a billion dollars worth if you can't live to spend it?




To everyone else here posting, I have this shill cornered with no place to go and nothing sensible to reply with. Please refrain from giving him more tertiary side issues to endlessly argue about in order to give him a platform for giving himself a pretense of pretending like he still has a leg to stand on.

No, let's.  I went an hour or two not giving any real thought to the buildings collapsing on 'intuition'.  I went a week or two not giving any thought to 'conspiricy' due to rejection of my intuition.  Only when I got back to intuition (mine and very many other highly trained peoples) did I start to make any progress in really understanding 9/11 and what it meant for our nation.


As I recall (from decades ago study), impulse is the second time derivative of velocity, the first being acceleration.  The amount of time the energy wave could have influenced the movement of the '4 ton' member would be in most cases the time it took the collapse wave to cover the distance of several floors above to several floors below.  This creates an implulse of very high magnitude when measured in energy density.

Now it is true that the interplay between available energy and various kinds of leverage can and does produce some extraordinary behaviors.  Drop a log on a random pile of different sized logs and once in a while one will flip up in the air and travel a surprising distance (and hopefully not result in loss of life and limb in the process.)  These are statistical anomalies however.  When to many logs display the same behavior to often and/or all turn into toothpick sized shards, something else is at work.

I will also say that connections between structural members are often surprisingly tenacious and in many cases sap most of all of the energy available to induce motion.  Most recently I've been falling and yarding trees and working with a 20 ton excavator and moving a lot of brush.  A surprisingly small sliver of wood can cause much grief.  Back when I did demo, the same behavior could be noted only more so.  A simple electrical conduit would often sufficiently hold up a mass of structure from falling where and when I wished it to.  Connecting bolts and gussets were even worse.  Any member which flew out of the towers would have had to 'pay' such costs in terms of their energy budged before tallying up the input needed for their impulse.  Again, not statistically impossible but quite rare in practice.

It is not a mystery in my eyes. It was the terrorist, without a doubt. With an event like that, there will always be conspiracies that surround it.