Topic: What do you think about 9/11 mystery? - page 25. (Read 54943 times)

Many people in america think  that United States government insiders played a part in the attacks, or may have known the attacks were imminent, and did nothing to alert others or stop them. Some within the movement who argue that insiders within the United States government were directly responsible for the September 11 attacks often allege that the attacks were planned and executed in order to provide the U.S. with a pretext for going to war in the Middle East, and, by extension, as a means of consolidating and extending the power of the Bush Administration. but it was a very sad thing which has happend to america many people lost there lives many lost there close ones nearly 3000 people died... Goverments should do something about all this to make sure that this kind of incident never take place again in the future

If all the hidden 9/11 things ever become known, we will probably find that there were multitudes of reasons why it was done, and many, many people who made out big because of it.

Yes, with only 1 little difference. 2 or 3 years ago, the U.S District Court determined that, based on documentary evidence, it was proven that the Iranian government had an active participation in the attacks.

http://iran911case.com/
A certain president has done all he could to avoid this being discussed publicly, the same way he's doing all that he can now to avoid Saudi Arabia's involvement being discussed (especially after the "offended" Saudis threatened to pull out 750 Billion USD they hold in the USA..).

The only 9/11 refutable with 8th grade math, chemistry, and physics, is an 8th grade 9/11, which did not take place.

Hmm....

I think it's up to you to prove the case of of the US "murderers, con artists and thieves" being responsible for 911, otherwise you actually are, although unwittingly, operating as a relay station for Muslim propaganda.

In this discussion about the four ton beam you have not done that.  You have made some errors in the physics, yes, and I don't doubt they were caused  by your simply repeating things taken for granted as true on various 911 conspiracy oriented websites.

But I did some time ago tell Badecker that I'd be willing to refute 911 conspiracy theories using 8th grade math, chemistry and physics, and that remains true.

Yes, I did explain how PE is translated into sideways motion.  Twice.  It's possible you missed it or I did not state it clearly.   I'll be happy to state it again, or just pull the explanation from a book and link to it.

Here's a third attempt, though.  A long time ago, building designers created "arches" and used them.  Think Roman era.  But balancing tension and compression forces wasn't understood.  A simple circular arch in stone would cause failure, and at the points of failure, the stones would be thrown out sideways.  The arch that balanced tension and compression was later figured out.  Now in the WTC case, you will agree that there was careful and sophisticated balancing of forces.  But when they started to come down, that balancing ceased to exist.  Of course pieces would be thrown out sideways. 

At the tail end of the WTC towers' fall all the PE is translated into some or all of four things.  Heat, a bigger hole in the ground, sideways motion, and/or fractured materials.

How do we know this?  Because the PE does not exist anymore.  It's gone.  One of the easiest of these four factors to understand is sideways motion, because in any movement of a group of junk toward the ground, sideways motion occurs.  You accept that.  You just have a problem with the 21 meters per second.  Is that correct?  If it was nominal, you would shrug it off.  

However, equations exist for the size and shape of piles of rubble.   Civil engineer stuff.  "If we put 500 dump trucks of stuff over there, how big will it be around the base?"
You have posted yourself illustrations of the size and extent of the debris of the twin towers.  You've admitted it went out laterally to the extent of 500-600 feet.  To me this is just part of the necessary dissipation of the potential energy.  A quick google search indicates the PE of one WTC tower's fall to be > 150 tons of TNT...

But there's just something about a 4 ton piece of steel going out six hundred feet that  bothers you.  

Why?

Good for you. You can let other people think for you. Have a cookie.

I took a trip to New York City to improve my coding skills and everyone there told me that 9/11 was perpetrated by 19 Islamic hijackers. i'm sorry to say but i think that 9/11 was carried out by 19 hijackers brainwashed by Osama bin laden

No I did not expect you would give up your pathetic attempt at supporting your bias no matter how many facts I beat you over the head with. So canons don't use explosive force? Riiiight. Regardless of what you call it, it is the same thing. Large amounts of energy. You claim that this comes from the potential energy of gravity pulling the building down, but yet you still can not explain how that downward force is translated into lateral motion, nor can you explain the mechanism for this. Repeating yourself endlessly will not make your huge gaps in logic any smaller. If you think there are errors, why don't you specify them instead of leaving them vague accusations and unsupportable claims?

I see what this is now. This is not about reality, this is about supporting your bias. I haven't misstated physics, nor am I anti-American, which you should know damned well by now from my posts in other threads. How is getting to the bottom of who really attacked us anti-American? How is routing out corruption within our government anti-American? You think it is American to let murderers, con artists, and thieves operate within America using it as its shell to take what it wants and dispose of us later leaving us to take the aftermath of its crimes? I don't find that at all American. Finally you reveal your bias.

This is about Israel, as it always is with you. At every criticism of Israel you jump to invoke "Jew Hate" TM over and over for years. You want America to continue fighting Israel's battles for it, and if the people realize that 9/11 was a contrivance to get the USA into the Middle East, you are afraid your precious apartheid state might not get the endless military aid it does now any more. The USA has been dragged into this conflict unwillingly and I don't trust Israel any more than I trust the Muslim nations. Either would sell out the USA in a heartbeat if it served their goals. For you though, you can not acknowledge the reality of the facts of the day of 9/11, because if those facts did come out, people might start looking at who benefited from things going down that way right? You have a lot of fucking nerve invoking Americanism while you support Israel above American values. You are nothing but a shill, and frankly a piss poor one at that. Time for you to take up a new hobby.

First, the equations cited provide numerical answers for the question at hand, assuming initial altitude is 333 meters and speed is 21 meters per second.  If there is an error please show where and how and stop the ad hominem attacks.  I'm NOT IN CONTROL of the output numbers from these formulas, so stating them does not make me a fool or a liar.

Second, here is where it seems you have erred.

Newton's First Law -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_laws_of_motion
When viewed in an inertial reference frame, an object either remains at rest or continues to move at a constant velocity, unless acted upon by a force.

You made this claim -

Of course debris would fall and spread out a little bit, but not eject laterally 600 feet. With every foot you extend the lateral movement, you are requiring MORE FORCE to eject it. You are acting like the difference between moving a 4 ton section of steel 5 feet and moving it 600 feet is a moot point. It is not, every foot that 4-ton object goes requires exponential amounts more of energy to move it.

I have only pointed out that this is not true, according to Newton's first law.  The beam once given a sideways motion will continue in that path until it hits the ground.  The distance it travels is a function of time and is not exponentially higher for distance moved.  

I used the example of spacecraft.  Once set in motion, it continues.  In the case of an orbiting spacecraft, the orbit is defined as an ellipse where it's fall due to gravity is the same as it's movement away from the planet due to it's momentum vector in any given time slice.  This is according to Kepler's laws of motion.

 Maybe that's confusing - perhaps the mechanics of a cannon is better?  Assume the cannon fires exactly horizontal to the Earth's surface.  The cannon is fired and the cannon ball goes through the air until it hits the ground.  The ball has two force vectors, one the explosive charge in the direction it is aimed, and the other the downward force of gravity.  There is no additional energy needed to move the ball farther.  If we move the cannon upwards, say to higher levels or ramparts of a castle, the ball goes further.  (Unless you want to consider the 'additional energy' as being the additional Potential Energy of being higher up in the castle.)

Yeah, just a small problem with your logic... The WTC towers did not EXTEND INTO SPACE. Additionally objects don't just orbit by themselves. They require MASSIVE amounts of velocity and fuel to get there, so no, nothing I said would make orbiting impossible. Lets just forget about the massive solid fuel rockets required to send something into orbit. Also while we are at it lets forget about the fact that gravity is weaker the further you get away from the center of the earth out into space. I can't believe you are arguing against the laws of physics now. You are either a fool or a liar.

it is a very powerful inspiration. I'm not sure who was responsible. however, I believe is that doing this is the most evil people in this world.

Hmm... No, that's wrong.  If that was true, a spacecraft could never orbit a planetary body.  The small pieces of rubble and dust are affected both by wind and air resistance.  I think air resistance on the 4 tons of steel can be disregarded.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equations_for_a_falling_body

d = 1/2 (g * t^2)
t = sqrt(2d/g)

sideways movement ts = 21 mps
g= 9.8 mps
d = 333 meters

1.  How long does the object take to fall from 333 meters height?
 
t = sqrt (2*333/9.8 ) = 8.18 seconds

2.  In 8.18 seconds, how far will it move sideways?

 = 21mps * 8.18s = 171 meters (564 feet)

Um, no. You don't even understand basic physics. It is not just a function of time. Every foot it moves laterally means another foot in which it has to resist gravity to travel that far, meaning MORE LATERAL FORCE is required. It is different because small pieces of rubble DON'T WEIGH 4 FUCKING TONS.  I see now your only remaining strategy here is deny deny deny. I am starting to get the impression you are just being willfully ignorant now.

Your words.

One or two of them (Jews), and several other evil people as well, and maybe many evil people of many different nationalities. However, if Arab terrorists were involved, they were the least part of the problem.

Your words.  You are spouting anti-American lying propaganda produced by Muslims, and intended to cast them in a light as victims of a 911 conspiracy, instead of showing those very Muslims as the cause of the 911 terrorist attack.