What will happen to blacklisted coins? - page 2.

Mickeyb

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Move On !!!!!!

Quote from: Amph on September 26, 2015, 06:34:32 AM

it would be a good news, less coins in circulation more value for the remaining coins

you can't ask any better, this does not mean that this value should increase, having a very few amount of coins in the end isn't ideal

I don't agree! The day we would start blacklisting coins would be the day that we would have signed a death sentence for Bitcoin. Bitcoin fungibility is extremely important. I can't even imagine what mess would we get ourselves into if we would start accepting some and refusing other coins.

People would lose trust and interest into Bitcoin right away. Imagine if you are to wake up just to find out that half of the coins in your stash are worthless since they have been through Silk Road for example, which might as well be the case and they have been blacklisted.

Q7

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Having lost faith in bitcoin doesn't mean that the rest of us here share the same sentiment as yours. For the person to pass on the so-called tainted coins to you there must be some form of exchange going on for example a sale of item. If you are doing things legitimately there's always a proof to show as evidence. Same applies to fiat system if somebody makes huge payment to your account and that get tracked by your tax collector and as long as you have a receipt to prove, it should be nothing. Somehow after reading this thread I have a feeling that we are moving towards unnecessary state of paranoia.

Amph

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it would be a good news, less coins in circulation more value for the remaining coins

you can't ask any better, this does not mean that this value should increase, having a very few amount of coins in the end isn't ideal

tokeweed

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Life, Love and Laughter...

Don't worry, when BTC goes back up above $1k there will be no blacklist.

CohibAA

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Anyone concerned about increasing the privacy of bitcoin transactions should know or find out about JoinMarket.

Quote from: JoinMarket Wiki

The idea behind JoinMarket is that holders of bitcoin will allow their coins to be mixed with in return for a fee. The mixing will happen in coinjoin transactions. They form a kind of smart contract which means your private keys will never leave your computer so there is no risk of loss (barring malware or bug*)

Put simply, JoinMarket allows you to improve the privacy of your bitcoin transactions for low fees in a decentralized fashion Because of the fee paid, owners of bitcoin will be able to earn an income using JoinMarket.

As the risk is very low, the reward will also be low because of competition between fee-earners. It means that you will be eventually able to do a coinjoin very cheaply. We already see that holders of bitcoin are willing to earn very small amounts per day by lending on the bitfinex exchange, and that contains a substantial risk that bitfinex will go disappear.

Coming (eventually) to wallets you use...

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

I'll still accept them, how bout you? Wink

Slark

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XT is now dead but that does not mean we are out of the forest. I keep seeing some regulation obsessed people who believe bitcoin simply must change to bring it in line with other payment systems. This means adding identity information to bitcoin transactions and making it possible to blacklist funds will be serious possibility in the future.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: Pab on September 22, 2015, 05:49:45 PM

There is not blacklisting in crypto world,coins are dieing becouse of natural death,than scamersaredoing nextcoin just by cloning code.In acase of XT ,XT is already dead, hurray,short live thay had

Did you buy this account? You really really should work on your correct language. Signature campaign runners don't like bad language very much.

And no, XT has nothing to do with churning out the next scamcoin. Though XT won't survive anyway. Practically everyone using it only wants to push the inclusion of a higher block size in core bitcoin.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: pedrog on September 22, 2015, 04:16:43 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on September 21, 2015, 09:50:46 AM

Quote from: pedrog on August 20, 2015, 03:53:21 AM

Even if someone was really trying to create a blacklisting mechanism to be used in bitcoin, I don't think it would be possible due to the nature of the system, in a centralized system like Ripple it can be made, not in bitcoin.

Can you elucidate us on how this could be achieved?

It is possible and was discussed under the name tainting. It is similar to fiat money where you note down banknote id numbers when they were used for a robbery. You can identify the flow of every coin. So when a coin came from a scam then it could be shown.

The plan was to investigate where the owner got these coins from in order to track down the scammer.

In fact scammers would be smart and exchange somehow. The one ending with such coins would have to explain who he is or would have coins that are worth less than they are.

And yes, that is one of Hearns suggestions. It is not implemented luckily. I support the 8MB though. Only not hearn.

I know how it works, I don't think it's feasible, you will need a central authority to say which coins are tainted, if this authority is Spanish it may work for Spanish exchanges, but you can exchange those tainted coins in a Chinese exchange, wand why would they care about the guys claiming the coins were stolen in Spain?

The central authority is one of the problems, yes. Misuse is something you can see from far away already and this central authority would have a very very strong influence.

But the language barrier should not be a problem. Coins are universal and if they are stolen in a certain country should not matter. The tainting would not be a governmental institute, so all complaints could be solved centrally.

This should never ever come.

Sometimes i think hearn in fact still works for google and he worked there in fact for the nsa. Now he only works for the nsa. His ideas are simply so stupid that it is no fun.

If that is the case then someone at the nsa made a pretty stupid decision to bring the tor ddos protection Roll Eyes

into the code. Stupid guys.

Pab

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There is not blacklisting in crypto world,coins are dieing becouse of natural death,than scamersaredoing nextcoin just by cloning code.In acase of XT ,XT is already dead, hurray,short live thay had

pedrog

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Quote from: SebastianJu on September 21, 2015, 09:50:46 AM

Quote from: pedrog on August 20, 2015, 03:53:21 AM

Even if someone was really trying to create a blacklisting mechanism to be used in bitcoin, I don't think it would be possible due to the nature of the system, in a centralized system like Ripple it can be made, not in bitcoin.

Can you elucidate us on how this could be achieved?

It is possible and was discussed under the name tainting. It is similar to fiat money where you note down banknote id numbers when they were used for a robbery. You can identify the flow of every coin. So when a coin came from a scam then it could be shown.

The plan was to investigate where the owner got these coins from in order to track down the scammer.

In fact scammers would be smart and exchange somehow. The one ending with such coins would have to explain who he is or would have coins that are worth less than they are.

And yes, that is one of Hearns suggestions. It is not implemented luckily. I support the 8MB though. Only not hearn.

I know how it works, I don't think it's feasible, you will need a central authority to say which coins are tainted, if this authority is Spanish it may work for Spanish exchanges, but you can exchange those tainted coins in a Chinese exchange, wand why would they care about the guys claiming the coins were stolen in Spain?

RGBKey

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rgbkey.github.io/pgp.txt

Quote from: neonshium on September 22, 2015, 01:22:40 AM

Quote from: Meuh6879 on August 19, 2015, 06:08:49 PM

blacklist ?
not in the Bitcoin Network ...

Yes, the FBI seized coins may be referred as blacklisted. But that's not actually could be implemented in bitcoin eco system. We are free from those shits.

Why are they referred to as blacklisted? They're still valid currency. Even if we don't like where they went we shouldn't "blacklist" them.

neonshium

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Quote from: Meuh6879 on August 19, 2015, 06:08:49 PM

blacklist ?
not in the Bitcoin Network ...

Yes, the FBI seized coins may be referred as blacklisted. But that's not actually could be implemented in bitcoin eco system. We are free from those shits.

foreveryoung

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they bancrupte?or they are change to other coins develop?

RGBKey

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rgbkey.github.io/pgp.txt

No coins have been blacklisted afaik, nobody ever allowed such a system to come into existance.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: TibanneCat on September 21, 2015, 10:17:54 AM

They can try to trace it but I don't think there was any attempt to create a blacklist.
I also believe OP is mistaking XT's proposal of IP connection priority with a wide blacklist of tainted coins

As the flow of btcs increase, ultimately any attempts to blacklist tainted coins would be similar to blacklisting all dollar bills with traces of cocaine.

It's not so very different from tainting fiat money through their id. If you happen to have such a bill and the bank recognizes it then you lose that bill. It doesn't matter anymore that you received it legally in the local kiosk, you are the one who loses. No refund.

And yes, nowadays it would not be possible anymore to taint scam coins from a longer time ago, but still, it might be possible for scams happening now.

It might be OP is mixing something. Unfortunately Hearn had both these stupid ideas. Ok, deprioritizing is not banning actually, so it is not as bad. But really, Hearn is stupid. He should push his 8 MB block and collect followers. Instead he pushes things where he knows that nobody likes them. This guy is somewhat not a strategist. Roll Eyes

SebastianJu

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Quote from: pedrog on August 20, 2015, 07:59:15 AM

Quote from: harrymmmm on August 20, 2015, 07:54:02 AM

Quote from: Kazimir on August 20, 2015, 05:15:55 AM

Stop spreading FUD please.

Quote from: harrymmmm on August 20, 2015, 04:31:29 AM

We can see every address that coins go to, or come from. Even passing thru a tumbler taints the outputs to some extent.

I send 'tainted' coins from address A to address X (which happens to be a mixer, but besides the mixer admin and myself, nobody can know this).

I receive different, untainted coins (completely unrelated to the ones I earlier sent to X) from a different address Y to address B.

There exists NO chain of transaction between X and Y. Also not indirect, or coinjoined, or whatever. Nothing.

How are my coins in address B still blacklisted?

The coins itself are tainted. Let's say you receive 5 tainted coins to an address. Later you receive 2 more untainted coins to the same address. Then you send 7 coins to an exchange. And the first 5 coins will be known as tainted since these coins have a fixed way through the blockchain. It doesn't mean that you know who held them though. But it shows these coins are tainted and someone can block them. The current owner needs to explain where he received them from when he doesn't want to lose them then.

I did say 'taints ... to some extent'.
The anonymity set size of a single transaction is limited by the number of parties in it, obviously.
Unless chaumian blinding, zero knowledge proofs, or something dazzling has occurred, my statement is correct.

Dude, 'taints' by whom?

That's not a feature of the protocol, you can 'taint' how many coins you want, I don't care about your 'taint', and after a few transactions you'll be unable to know who has the coins...

That's why after so many thefts no one was able to come up with a system to blacklist coins, it requires centralization and absolute control over the system.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: Kazimir on August 20, 2015, 05:15:55 AM

Stop spreading FUD please.

Quote from: harrymmmm on August 20, 2015, 04:31:29 AM

We can see every address that coins go to, or come from. Even passing thru a tumbler taints the outputs to some extent.

I send 'tainted' coins from address A to address X (which happens to be a mixer, but besides the mixer admin and myself, nobody can know this).

I receive different, untainted coins (completely unrelated to the ones I earlier sent to X) from a different address Y to address B.

There exists NO chain of transaction between X and Y. Also not indirect, or coinjoined, or whatever. Nothing.

How are my coins in address B still blacklisted?

Not your coins in Address X. But someone received your coins. And this person then might withdraw them through an exchange. Their tainting system shows them these coins are tainted and they request an explaination about the coins, otherwise they will block them.

It might be that the mixer owner won't give your name though. That's why this system is stupid. Real scammers would know how to avoid the trouble but poor guys would have the problems.

TibanneCat

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BTC > etc

They can try to trace it but I don't think there was any attempt to create a blacklist.
I also believe OP is mistaking XT's proposal of IP connection priority with a wide blacklist of tainted coins

As the flow of btcs increase, ultimately any attempts to blacklist tainted coins would be similar to blacklisting all dollar bills with traces of cocaine.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: pedrog on August 20, 2015, 03:53:21 AM

Even if someone was really trying to create a blacklisting mechanism to be used in bitcoin, I don't think it would be possible due to the nature of the system, in a centralized system like Ripple it can be made, not in bitcoin.

Can you elucidate us on how this could be achieved?

It is possible and was discussed under the name tainting. It is similar to fiat money where you note down banknote id numbers when they were used for a robbery. You can identify the flow of every coin. So when a coin came from a scam then it could be shown.

The plan was to investigate where the owner got these coins from in order to track down the scammer.

In fact scammers would be smart and exchange somehow. The one ending with such coins would have to explain who he is or would have coins that are worth less than they are.

And yes, that is one of Hearns suggestions. It is not implemented luckily. I support the 8MB though. Only not hearn.

Topic: What will happen to blacklisted coins? - page 2. (Read 3617 times)