Topic: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order (Read 4302 times)

What has happened is the newer gear has gone so far up in price  I can't justify buying any new gear.

We are okay for now his profit margin is still plus.  and at this point I will have all 900th paid off. sept 1st.

I could afford to shift deal  if he goes red. ie  60-40  for him.
He is 3 cents.

The power bill is about 2268  he earns about  0.01 btc a day or .30 btc a month  about 3100

he also earns 0.1 ltc a day or 3 ltc a month or  215   usd   so his net is about   3315-2268 = 1047 a month

me and buy solar's net is 3315.  we have almost fully paid off  all gear.  payoff for all gear on hand will be sept 1st.

people don't realize how hard mining is .  the hoster is at 3 cent cost.  and makes 1000 a month or 12,000 on the year.  we will earn about  12,000  from sept to dec.

and at years end have  a lot of gear.  that will need shutting down.  the s9's and the L3+  will all get turned off by jan 31.

so  25 l3+ and 22 s9's  will be shut off.  about 11gh and about 220th  using around  18 + 23 = 41 kwatts  giving us  only 65kwatts burning out of a possible 150.  But I can't justify buying newer gear at stupid high prices.

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forget trump tax. forget my deal

the s20 is 45 th at 48 watts a th or 2160 watts.  it earns  45 x 0.0000242 = 0.001089 btc a day or 11-12 bucks

2.16 x 24 = 52 kwatts a day is  2.08  usd so 12-2.08 is 10 bucks a day 1830+120 = 1950 /10 = 195 days  and wait 110 days till you get it   so 305 days to roi  with 4 cent power and no trump tax.  is okay.  but if you are in the USA good luck getting that deal.  most people simply can't get in the game.

50/50 split deal seems dangerous. Would your power guy take a loss to uphold his end of the deal? Or would he just shut it down and send you your gear back? Seems overly stressful since you need to make decisions about what gear to buy and what's good for you is not good for him. Gives me a headache just thinking about it.

I assume you know his operating cost and are making decisions based on that to keep it profitable for both of you?

It works great for me if I do all s9s.
It works like shit for him if I do all s9s.

It works great for him if I do all s17 pro gear.
It works meh for me if I do all s17 pro gear.

He has zero risk on gear purchases. I have zero risk on power.

The trick is to blend new and old gear to make it good for me and good for him.

Our mix is 700th newer gear and 216 th s9s.

This blend is okay for him and good for me.  Mostly because I can’t fill to 150kwatts we are at 105-110 kwatts.

I need a decent deal to fill out the remaining 35-45 kwatts.

I have 5 kwatts to add.  So I need maybe 40.

It could be the m20 say 15 to 20 of them. But not for the current price and wait til December.

For that deal to Be okay I need the gear sooner then December.

How does this 50/50 work? Just for my education, I doubt it works now.

You buy the equipment and the data hall provides the power?

I assume you take the most risk on this because the Equipment has to ROI for this to make any sense to the data hall guy.

If the equipment you get doesn't float the boat he is not gonna pay electric at a loss.

I assume also, as partners you get his 'real' rates he pays himself for accounting purposes, etc.

Anyway, not like this is gonna work in the near future IMHO.

But is this something like the above or are their other 'catches'?

thanks, interesting take, assuming anything I said above has any merit on my guesses

Brad

I was looking forward to your answer(even though I wasn't checking the forums this week)....

I totally agree with you and I liked your calculation, it saves me a lot of time, so thank you for that!

I am 50-50 coin spilt   So my gear always earns  but  lets do some math.

45th /2 = 22.5th for free  current earning rate is 0.0000241 a th

so 22.5 x 0.0000241 = 0.00054225 btc a day  x 10,700 = $5.80 a day.  so a 1850 usd unit + 150 =  2000 + 500 trump tax = 2500/5.80 = 431 days.  I will pretend price increases slowly as diff equals (who knows what happens for sure).

So I am looking at 431 days of mining and 120 days of waiting. or 551 days.  The gear price is too high as is the waiting time for it.

I was sold a 21s for 2500 got it aug 1st     it is 56th  and it mines now  it will take  333 days to break even.

Well, my Xcel utility went nuts. My summer residential rates are 17.59c kWh now, I mean a 6c increase in 2 years? sheesh.

Home mining for me is deader than dead! Data Hall is 9.5c-10c kWh. That boat doesn't float too well. And of course, as you state the 120 days wait on a Whatsminer M20 indeed. In case your pre-order is longer than 120 days. (That never happens right?)

Then with the Whatsminer M20 may be late on the pre-order. When you add the USA tariff to this at 27.6% it gets very ugly. If you take into account that maybe after December 15th, 2019 the tariff could go up another 10% if again, your pre-order is a bit late. Well ugly indeed.

Then lastly, of course, is the price, which for the value of Bitcoin and the pre-order 120 days is more than a bit too high for this Whatsminer M20, well that is quite a list above. I should re-phrase that WAY, WAY, too high, IMHO!

So assuming (guessing) philipma1957 can not justify any of this at (again I think his electric cost is this) 8c kWh or so? I'm so out of the running on this, I'm in the grandstands watching this ASIC blood sport and way, way out of this arena! So I am reduced to following Philpma1957's actions like an ASIC fanboy, just to at least have something to do.

I'm sure not getting anything this year, the way it looks like at the moment.

Brad

That is the same question that has been bugging me for quite some time... In my opinion it looks like summer is the worst time for ordering and end of winter and beginning of spring is the best. So I am going to wait for at least January.

Have to agree with this.  The question for me is  do I order the m20  and wait for 120 days.  A long wait.

The bigger coupons only came out when sales were slow. I think the last one I used was at the end of January, maybe February. It's nice to see they still have the little one on the site full-time. I don't think we'll see any deep discounts until next year at least considering the pre-sale market we're in now.

Oh, that small one. I noticed it, but I thought there was bigger ones. Thank you!

it shows up on website of pangolinminer.com

NAKAZAWA   in the amount of $15

How did you acquire the coupon?

Seems OK.

If BTC price rise, it is good to have one of the best gear.
If BTC price drop, hashrate drop and you can earn more BTC.

I order two M20S-68 and one M20-45 on pangolin, plus become a small coupon.

December is so far away 😭.

Well if buying the m20 for 1890 usd in dec turns out to be bad

Buying the s17 pro for 2875 usd in dec would be worse.

Has anybody tested the M20-45 with 8NM Samsung chips? I am very interested in this gear.

Seams is the best choice at the moment. But price is very high and delivery is in December. Maybe I become 0.5 BTC in December for 2000 USD. I have this time the same feeling as in November 2017. Bitmain sells the s9 for high price with delivery in late February.

Since the PSU ship later you can create the order as you'll get units then psu's and will be under de minimis both shipments. Though you won't be mining till the latter arrives.

Good question I have twenty psu’s on hand.

So if you want  psu’s buy them on eBay for 65 bucks or amazon for 65

That won’t affect de minimus. So to be fair you may need to add some cash in for a psu.

Is that with the PSU of $85?

The question I have is why are they driving the price up so high, I mean all the mnfg's are frigging doing it!

Do they see FOMO as their salvation?

Is it the fact that IF you are not in the USA and/or not in a VAT country, you can clean up on ASIC miners with these prices...in addition to saying these same countries are in the 4c to 6c kWh electric range? Could the demand from NON-EU VAT countries and the USA etc have such a demand on prices to make up for the fact the USA and a lot of EU buyers are not out, and the countries above are in full FOMO and such, allowing the mnfg's to drive up prices?

I just don't get it, been bothering me on wtf is going on for weeks now.

So anyway, perhaps is a hole of mining FOMO that needs to be filled, and is being filled by countries without VAT and/or tariffs like the USA. The current manufacturer's of ANY ASIC miner flavor, have all seen this, and are jumping full boat on this FOMO and assumption of price pump, just by seeing the numbers, indeed I'd guess they are NOT seeing their sales slow down, thus raising prices, thus where we find ourselves now.

I just wish I had a handle on an 'honest broker' in a far east country with decent hosting and electric prices.  Took me years to find such in the USA, doubt I'd pull such an overseas trick.

But again, somebody either knows or is assuming a lot of stuff that I am not, or some of my meanderings above are in play, but yeah, I just don't get it.

Sorry about off-topic this will likely get deleted..but this is a concern on ANY miner purchase anywhere.

You add the frigging 36.7% tariff with import fees and I am (on top of the above) beyond flabergasted

whatever...end of rant

brad