Topic: When do goldbugs give up? (Read 1187 times)

Two instances where he predicted the future. Silver at $26 to $45 then back below $46 several months before it happened:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article23786.html


Bitcoin at $600 when everyone was pessimistic right as it began its moonshot to $19666 (and when @realr0ach sold BTC for silver lol):

https://steemit.com/money/@anonymint/speculation-rule-buy-when-others-are-irrationally-pessimistic-cautious
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/speculation-rule-buy-when-others-are-irrationally-pessimistic-or-too-cautious-1663070

It depends on what you believe the outcome of the USD will be. Do you think they can keep doing this forever, and keep the USD alive and strong in zombie mode? will people keep accepting USD no matter what thus making it a useful tool to demoralize potential buyers of hard money? (bitcoin or gold)

If yes, then both bitcoin and gold are fucked, because no matter what their properties are, they can keep manipulating the price forever.

If no, then both bitcoin and gold will win, because they are hard money, and hard money always win in the long term. What is being discussed here at least by me is the fact that bitcoin is a lot more convenient than cumbersome gold. You can't basically move anywhere with your gold, for this reason alone, bitcoin wins.

If we're measuring in US dollars then there is no upper limit as there is 20 trillion of debt to unwind at the same time as a trade deficit and fiscal deficit.   Thats going to mean alot of new dollars arriving on the streets over the following decades.  At best it will be spread out but they cant not repay that debt, without a surplus its evitable the price of everything rises considerably.

I doubt BTC or gold rises alone, other prices will also rise but the point to either is they also become viable replacements for the business done in trade while holding that value.   Hence the rise is greater then just purely inverse to dollar decline


The gold rush will have disturbed gold on the surface mainly but overall I think surveys on the geological nature and distribution to gold across the globe have been done.   If I see a source I will post it.  
SA is linked to platinum in having a large enough resource that it would not be feasible to have this metal as a monetary base globally.   I'm not sure why one precious metal has a concentration in one country and the other is found in almost every country.    I think its linked to volcanic flow and tectonic plates but I havent read anything on this recently and definitely not an expert but afaik its not in dispute generally.

We need a geologist on this thread just like a developer in crypto protocols might have better insight to future dynamics

https://mobile.apanews.net/index.php/en/news/safrica-russia-seek-ways-to-preserve-platinum-value



https://www.statista.com/statistics/273624/platinum-metal-reserves-by-country/

He agrees with you that you will be correct at least after a possible new ATH in 2019, and Bitcoin will probably not bottom until 2021. But long-term he thinks you are confusing adoption and a speculative bubble. Bitcoin has both.


Also he thought you might appreciate this about the Zionists (not all Jews):

https://steemit.com/politics/@anonymint/succinct-absolute-truth-about-9-11-and-las-vegas-massacre

I voted for more than $7 trillion in market capitalization (higher than the market value of any gold) because I think the price of gold coins has reached its limit!

Every market in the world is manipulated by the ESF in order to try and prop up the dollar + bond market + stocks.  The only real disparity here is that bitcoin has obviously been intentionally propped up by the fraudulent exchange Bitfinex, their tethers, and other scams, while silver and gold are suppressed 24 hours a day by entities like the Comex.  Anonymint can lie all he wants, but he knows it's a lie when he tries to pretend shitcoins are not an artificially propped up bubble, and metals are an inverse bubble.  The first step of trading 101 is do not buy an artifically propped up bubble.

Same thing with other shitcoins on the micro-scale.  Goldman Sachs bought most of the Ethereum premine, sent their illiquid asset to Poloniex, then leveraged it higher.  It was a toxic waste, illiquid asset when the price was low.  Now it's a higher price pile of toxic waste.  The same thing has been done with bitcoin using ScamFinex to artificially rig the price upwards.  

In the GATA archives for metals, it was admitted by the govt that they try to introduce volatility into the metals market using the ESF in order to make them look like a less stable store of value so they can pretend the dollar is somehow more stable.  The ESF itself might even be running the bitcoin pump and dumps doing the same thing here.  Create bubbles then catastrophic collapses over and over ad infinity...in everything...then you pretend the dollar is stable.  Meanwhile, they literally hand out a blueprint of when and where the pump and dumps will occur to a select few oligarchs to make sure they can continuously stay in power and never lose a bet.

I do not see why they would need to admit they are wrong, it is going to be impossible for gold to be as profitable as bitcoin, that is true, since the market cap of bitcoin is way lower, but I think gold is also going to be extremely profitable once the economic system becomes a lot more unstable and crashes, so even if they do not get the same profits as us, gold will be in my opinion a great investment in the next decades as well.

There you go with that aliasing error. You imagine your shadow is yourself. Your stuck clock is correct twice a day and you imagine that it is correct all day.

Simple correlation as I already told you. That was the start of the strong dollar-short vortex and the peak of China's resource consumption. So all the commodity markets have been hit hard. Which exemplifies gold is more like a commodity now and less like a monetary reserve. The international capital (follows each other like ducks) moved on to the next wave which was into U.S. dollar and U.S. stocks. Which have been rising ever since.

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/stock-indicies/dow-jones/the-us-share-market-reality-exposed/

"The actual gold resource itself in the ground is fairly evenly distributed though"

How do you know this? do you have any data on the "initial gold distribution" before the gold rush craze began? I wonder how a map like that would look like before and after.

I seriously doubt it happened to be evenly distributed. Even if it was, you still needed the tools to mine it. So the guy that already had power also known as resources, would have trucks, big drills and so on, so he would quickly establish a monopoly on the local goldmines. The guy that didn't have nothing but their hands and perhaps a hammer and a shovel tops couldn't compete.

Of course you can't argue that gold's "settings" are more natural than bitcoin (someone had to manually input the initial settings of bitcoin after all), but at the end of the day you have to be pragmatic, and bitcoin seems way more useful than gold for reasons already explained in previous posts.

Bitcoin is also the only coin that grew organically, without get rich quick expectations of altcoins.

Gold is naturally distributed over millions of years.   How could it be manipulated in its source when its a purely natural element.    Do the figures reported year by year get a human bias of course but the major point to gold is that its not really under the control of anyone.

Bitcoin has a hard time arguing with that as its obviously evolved out of direct human engineering.  However its maturing and has come a long way and is the most distributed of all the crypto currencies as I understand it.   I'd still think gold is far more a natural market then Bitcoin.

Obviously I mean the actual presentation and clearance of the resource in both cases.   No point arguing about virtual certificates for Gold or BTC.    The market price for gold does not match up, I agree with that.  China is the worlds largest producer, it does not export gold and it does not report properly so we dont have a price available in FIAT thats accurate for gold probably ditto USD is a mess.
  Until gold is in every day exchange for goods into billions as a currency I think its mostly estimated.    Obviously BTC price is largely decided by speculation more then trade.   The actual gold resource itself in the ground is fairly evenly distributed though

My point was that there are way too many coincidences out there when it comes to futures and charts beginning a decline from all time highs. See:









 

The fundamental analysis of anonymint (dollar short vortex, NWO stuff, armstrong stuff and so on..) is not incompatible with the possibility of they using futures to manipulate assets. At the end of the day we are all theorizing here with whatever info we have, because I doubt any of us has any insider info. So we all on a tinfoil hat party trying to make the best of what info do we have at reach.

At the end of the day we conclude that Bitcoin is the long term winner anyway.

Tinfoil hat, aliasing error, delusional nonsense. The peak and decline in gold began because of the start of the strong dollar-short vortex and the rise of the DJIA on its way to 26000 (and ultimately 40,000) as Armstrong correctly predicted back in 2011 and 2012 (despite @realr0ach's lies and cherry picking blogs out-of-context). It was a simple international capital flows phenomenon. There was and is no long-term manipulation of the gold price. You guys don't seem to understand anything about the entropy.

Remember it was @realr0ach stating back in 2016 that Armstrong was going to be incorrect about a rising DJIA and strong dollar. Well he ate his words and lost 4000% of this relative value by selling BTC for silver in October 2016. And now he is going to double-down on that mistake and lose another 1000%, to bring himself into the destitute class of -40,000% relative loses over a span of 5 years or so.

The following exponential trend of Bitcoin is undeniable because it is being adopted as the NWO international reserve currency:

https://steemit.com/trading/@anonymint/most-important-bitcoin-chart-ever (see chart on the linked page)

James A. Donald (aka "Jim", first person to communicate with Satoshi on the mailing list where Bitcoin was first announced) recently explained this adoption pattern well:


Did anyone actually click the linked chart in the quote below?



Because the chart linked below shows that physical metals have been declining in relative value inexorably. Gold is declining in relative value while Bitcoin is rising. Only someone without a brain stem would buy gold at this point. It’s being rapidly phased out by technological advance.


See the link in the above quote for a historical chart (cited from the Economist magazine) of the plummeting value of commodities in general over the past two millennia. Iron used be a precious metal in 323 B.C. The value of platinum recently fell off a cliff because electric cars don't need catalytic converters (which normally contain platinum). And the PUBLIC CONFIDENCE in cryptocurrency is rising exponentially (see the above Steemit linked chart) while plummeting for gold as explained up-thread.

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You can ask the same question about gold. Yet it was already explained to you up-thread that what makes something money is PUBLIC CONFIDENCE that it is money.

You can revisit the education that you ignored up-thread for all the details.


And you sit on your gold in your basement while your stacks of gold and silver decline in relative value to the value of a ham sandwich and we don't care. Enjoy your oblivion.

Nobody wants your precious metals anymore. You can't seem to comprehend such a simple principle. This was already explained in great detail up-thread. You rely on liquid market makers that can be regulated by the government. The common man will not accept your trinkets in payment for goods and services.

Although the common man will end up being kicked offchain from Bitcoin eventually (2024+) by the $5000+ transaction fees (as price of BTC and demand for Bitcoin transactions increase), he will increasingly accept cryptocurrency in general. And Bitcoin is the reserve currency of this brave new world.


No we don't. We can mine more of it. And besides technology makes that shit less and less valuable.

For example, soon we will have bots that can bore with A.I. directly on the ore veins and your precious metals are going to plummet in value.

Also see how electric cars have destroyed the demand for platinum, which I cited up-thread.

Of course the following is bad news for goldbugs because the more industrial demand the less monetary are the precious metals, as the recent plunge in platinum has exemplified:

https://www.materialstoday.com/metals-alloys/news/new-platinumgold-alloy-most-wearresistant/


They are being phased out also by this brave new NWO. They are also thus implicitly short Bitcoin, which exemplifies their decadence.

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And to those who continue to be stuck on the power and Internet grid reliability non-issue, read this explanation of your myopia.

For anyone expecting a dollar short squeeze that Anonymint is always plagiarizing Armstrong's claim about, it damn sure ain't happening right now:

What utility?  If you hoard all the bitcoins in the entire world, there's no way possible for you to extort me by forcing me to buy into your artificial scarcity scam.  I can just ignore you like you don't even exist, or create a new random shitcoin with a distribution that favors me instead of you.  This is called no valid Schelling point.  

However, if I hoard all above ground silver in the world, people actually need it, and I can just set my own price and demand it from you and force you to pay me.  Any type of economic activity you're doing can be completely ignored by everyone else on the planet, so you're like the pig that built his house out of straw by pretending an artificial scarcity scam with no real world use is a store of value.

It's in people's nature to hardcore shill that what they own a lot of. In all honesty, we are doing the same with Bitcoin more often than not, and that while we haven't had all that much history of actual use and utility to fall back on. It's mostly all speculative hype that we have to dig through and as long as we haven't done that to reach the utility phase, people will not give Bitcoin a fair chance.

On the other hand, we should be glad that not everyone sees Bitcoin the way we see it, otherwise we by now would hover over $100,000 already.

As stated before, breaching $1 trillion is a very important psychological milestone. Even when some goldbugs don't want to acknowledge Bitcoin's power publicly (remember, there are always people telling you that you're wrong even when you are 100% right), they at least know that Bitcoin will likely eat into Gold's market share even further. They'll sleep a whole lot less comfortable knowing that.

I have seen goldbugs talking about gold in terms of "god's money". I understand that gold has an impressive network effect that lasts for what, thousands of years? but they often forget how volatile it was in the past. Isn't this familiar:



And what about this:



Please stop denying gold isn't any less manipulated than Bitcoin, and start accepting the fact that Bitcoin has obvious positive points: They cannot confiscate it when trying to cross borders, they cannot show up in your house with radars and inspect your garden or whatever trying to find buried gold and so on. The money is also harder due the limited and public, predictable supply. Nobody has numbers of what gold's supply is, which becomes yet another factor to manipulate which they can't do with BTC.

There are reasons to own both Bitcoin and gold but not seeing Bitcoin beats gold in many departments is being yet another deluded goldbug.

Here comes Anonymint again pretending he knows anything about what's going on.  It's 100% fact Harry Dent is a US govt asset and anyone that can read between the lines with his disinfo campaign of ads above can tell the US govt is trying to trick you into buying imaginary, valueless shitcoins instead of metals.  Why?:


And when all else fails and Anonymint starts losing an argument, he cut and pastes the same lie over and over pretending he has any idea of when I have bought and sold bitcoins.  I said in perfectly clear English numerous times, I sold 1/2 of my shitcoins at $800.  It does not say all.  And i have absolutely nothing to prove to you.  But it's pretty lame seeing your constant female-like, passive aggressive behavior when what you cut and paste over and over again any time you're losing an argument isn't even true.  I even posted a receipt in the dumb Armstrong thread of me converting shitcoins into silver in 2017, yet you still keep spamming this nonsense over and over.

So folks I think that makes it clear the sort of lunatics that wear tinfoil hats.

They may soon be running from their own shadows because they seem to associate any random things without actually doing any significantly detailed research on the random associations that just pop into their psychosis.
Seriously you might want to see a psychiatrist before you end up destitute, because you are slipping away from reality.

Remember @realr0ach sold BTC at $600 to buy silver at $20 in October 2016 when Shelby and others publicly urged him not to do so. (c.f. near the bottom of linked Steemit comment for the evidence)

Also clearly our resident loon is cherry picking and misrepresenting the facts about Martin Armstrong. Readers can dig into the links provided to clearly see that @realr0ach has "lost all his marbles".

P.S. The Jews have a Nash equilibrium on defection against those not in their own tribe. Europeans don't have this, so they are easy prey to defection amongst themselves.

That was the rebuttal.  You are spamming links of the equivalent of an FBI informant pretending it's valid information.  You have to be a complete fool if you can't figure out their disinfo campaign:



Do you think Harry Dent actually blows money on these ads to 'warn' you out of the kindness of his heart?  Fuck no.  It's a Jewish money changer, govt run disinfo campaign:



Armstrong is just Harry Dent 2.0 attempting to get people to only buy US dollars, stocks, and bonds to prop up the collapsing scam system and prevent them from buying metals, where there is already a technical default on the COMEX as evidenced by all the EFP contracts to London.  

Post-Bretton Woods central bankers had some informal agreement that no single country was allowed to do open market buying of gold to disrupt the debt based scam system, ONLY SELLING of gold.  Putin has completely blown the doors off that agreement as well as China and now the fake paper contracts keep stacking higher while there is no real metal to deliver behind the scenes in quantity until it all blows up.