Topic: When do goldbugs give up? - page 2. (Read 1187 times)

Anonymint, stop linking Armstrong garbage...jesus christ.  You may as well be linking to FBI informants like Hal Turner.  The only purpose of Armstrong and Harry Dent is to try and con everyone into only using the US dollar and no other instrument for trade to prop up the establishment usury scam system.  That is their only reason for existing.  Each link of Armstrong you spam just shows you have no clue what's going on.

I remember like a year ago you were spamming Armstrong bullshit links non-stop where both Armstrong and Harry Dent said gold was going "far below $1000 to the abyss", claiming it was going to $700-800.  It was of course all a US govt sponsored lie to try and get morons to buy US dollars and stocks instead to keep the system afloat.  So you are by definition yourself just a disinformation agent at this point.  No amount of tricks, propaganda, or fraud are going to get people to buy into stock ponzies, overinflated housing, or usury dollar scams.  Great job in your success tricking people into buying centralized, imaginary, valueless shitcoins though!

Gold bugs are literally defined as people who hold gold and view it as the best investment possible, regardless of the state of the gold market. This is something that is extremely irrational, and probably deep rooted. Thus, it's extremely hard for one to just "give up".

Though, I do think that with cryptocurrencies as a viable alternative store of value, especially bitcoin, it would only be a matter of time before gold perma-bulls start converting some of their long term holdings into bitcoin. I've seen many youtubers do so over the past few years, and this trend will continue, but will take time.

It may ultimately not even come down to gold's market cap, but rather, the rise awareness of better alternative store of values like bitcoin that has the exact same properties as gold, that makes these gold bugs shift their investment stance.

I can not think deeply. But still do not understand why China is buying huge amounts of gold across the country? Do you have any reasons? Information?

Because they want to move to a world central bank that subjugates all the nation-states. Again this increases human cooperation on a global scale while also increasing entropy by disintemediating (i.e. creative destruction of their own control over nation-state central banks) nation-states (which were well suited for the agricultural and industrial ages but ill suited to the Internet knowledge age) so as to enable massive proliferation of separation movements so that we end up with 1000s of tribes again run by a single NWO government. This will come in stages over time, first as a weakening of nation-states and regional trade and currency union blocs (e.g. European Union, Asian Union, NATFA, etc) before the ultimate dissolution of nation-states entirely.

Remember George Gilder explained in that Youtube link somewhere in Shelby's post about the book The Bitcoin Standard, that nature requires a low entropy channel in order to increase entropy overall. This is how cooperation elevates. So we need for example the Internet to not be random, so that we can have more random creations going on on the Internet. Ditto the monetary and governance conduit of human civilization.

So in order to accomplish this while avoiding resistance from the existing entrenched politics in nation-states, they needed a way to disrupt the monetary system of the world with an emergent, bottom-up process that can't be detected as what it will really become. Ergo Bitcoin.

Gold is the old system of nation-state central bank reserves. But gold was pretty much phased out already with US Treasury bonds largely replacing gold in reserves. And now Bitcoin will put the final nail in the coffin for gold.



And Bitcoin will rise to $million+ so that $40k will only buy you a ham sandwich in the future. Gold is going the way of the Dodo bird. But it will "rise" to maybe $3000 – $5000 one more time before it goes into a precipitous terminal decline in value.

The demise of gold may not be complete until some decades from now, yet even on this cycle of Western civilization collapse before 2033, it’s very likely the government will make it impossible for you to redeem your gold for fiat. Capital controls are coming. And there wont be any blackmarket for it at all and nobody with Bitcoin is going to accept your gold, because when the governments clamp down on gold, nobody will want that shit because you can’t move that bar across any nation-state border or checkpoint.

Whereas, BTC will always be in demand because it can be transported electronically to a favorable jurisdiction.

This is the bottom line and explains that @realr0ach is loony.

Those who doubt that technology reduces the value of metals over time should note the loss of demand for platinum due to the rise of electric cars resulting in a plummeting price.

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You didn’t coherently assimilate what I told you before which is that Bitcoin is not intended to scale transaction volume.

If Bitcoin’s protocol were able to be modified to increase the block size to allow more transactions, then it would lose the game theory protection that insures it will always be limited to 21 million tokens. That deflationary assurance is Bitcoin’s raison d'être.

The game theory of Bitcoin is designed such that it is impossible to change the protocol. Core attempted to do so, but Satoshi put a poison pill in his design that will cause Core tokens to be donated to the miners in the future. IOW, the Core "Bitcoin" is an imposter and is not the Satoshi’s v0.53 real Bitcoin. Theymos allowed Gregory Maxwell et al (i.e. Blockstream) to hijack this forum and bitcoin.org. This is ostensibly the real reason Shelby is banned, because he was exposing the truth.

If you go back and click my links, you will find that Shelby (as @anunymint) had explained in great detail why Core’s changes to Bitcoin actually are an altcoin. Satoshi’s v0.53 real Bitcoin is actually still running simultaneously with Core on the same chain, but when the SegWit donations start, then Core will hardfork off away from the real Bitcoin. At that point, everyone who had their BTC stored in SegWit addresses that start with a 3 will donate their real BTC to the miners. They will only keep their Core altcoin tokens. Those who instead store in Satoshi Bitcoin addresses that start with a 1 will keep both the real BTC and get a free airdrop of Core altcoin tokens. I provided the links up-thread that cover all this information in great detail.

The transaction scaling and other features that blockchains can provide will come from altcoins, not Bitcoin. That is why Shelby is working on an altcoin, because he thinks he has figured out how to insure decentralization with proof-of-stake. Nobody else has solved that problem yet. He mentioned his solution in the comments of the following linked blog:

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/scaling-decentralization-security-of-distributed-ledgers-part-4


You conflated separate concerns. The NWO reserve currency will not be the token that the masses use onchain. Remember Gresham’s Law that bad (inferior) money drives good money out-of-circulation— e.g. paper money and debt-based fiat drove precious metals out-of-circulation (even zinc-clad copper dimes drove silver dimes out-of-circulation). The masses will be transacting offchain (e.g. Lightning Networks but this has serious security and soundness issues) or an altcoin. These bad forms of money will not be as good of a store-of-value (i.e. they may be inflationary, have dubious security, be fiats, etc) as Bitcoin but they will scale better.

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Shelby says, “you’ve lost all your marbles.”

Do you really believe that PPT nonsense promulgated by guys with an IQ below 130. Shelby says he communicated with all those famous goldbug personalities in email in the past. All of them, including Peter Schiff. They aren’t very intelligent.

The North American stock markets and dollar are rising because of the strong dollar-short vortex. It's an international stampede of capital into the safe haven of the dollar as interest rates rise and the economic collapse of Europe accelerates. Also China’s real estate bubble is popping right now and Asia will not bottom until 2020ish. Europe and the West will not bottom for many decades. The USA will also economically collapse after the period of the strong dollar-short vortex has peaked. Shelby has been telling you this for the past years and he has continued to be correct while you continued to make a fool of yourself by being perpetually incorrect, including when you sold BTC at $600 to buy silver at $20.

You are already 40 times poorer than you were in 2016. If you don’t sell that idiotic silver and buy BTC now, you are going to be another 10 times poorer perhaps by 2019 (assuming Bitcoin attains a new ATH then and not after 2020).

Metals are going to go back up, but you are delusional if you believe that nonsense about a silver shortage. Silver will never, never ever have the level of moonshot that will get you back to what you lost already. You should not double-down on that mistake.

Here's an education for readers about your "PPT" (plunge protection team) delusions. The manipulations are only short-term in nature, because they always blow in the face of the banksters.

The Long Term Capital Management scam that involved Russia, Yeltsin, the $8 billion from the IMF, HSBC, Hermitage Capital, Clinton Foundation, and Martin Armstrong (he was framed and jailed for 7 years unconstitutionally) blew up in the face the banksters and is tied into the current Mueller investigation (c.f. also this blog) of Trump implicating Russia. Here is more on manipulation from Armstrong:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/comment-from-a-reader-manipulations/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/metals-perpetually-suppressed/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/derivatives-the-real-story/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/precious-metals/silver/do-commitment-of-traders-inventories-really-matter/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/are-markets-manipulated-all-the-time/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/armstrongeconomics101/understanding-cycles/market-manipulations-the-greatest-scam-of-all-time/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/gata-gold-manipulations/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/precious-metals/gold/do-people-hear-only-what-they-want-to-hear/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/regulators-assist-banks-in-manipulations/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/uncategorized/aluminum-manipulation-leads-to-lawsuits-against-goldman-etc-the-days-of-proprietary-trading-are/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/qa/time-for-a-change-in-reasoning/
https://www.google.com/search?q=site:armstrongeconomics.com+PhiBro+silver

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Sorry those people who talk about the silver-gold ratio are idiots. They look at a multi-dimensional manifold and conclude that only one dimension is in effect. IOW, they are full of shit and just looking at a 1D projection of reality. Thus their prayers are just praying for the broken stuck clock to be correct twice a day:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/precious-metals/gold/gold-ratios-are-they-really-worth-much/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/precious-metals/gold/gold-silver-the-view/
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/precious-metals/gold/dowgold-ratio/

Be very wary of following the advice of people with low IQs who don’t even consider the scientific method when they make their proclamations of ignorance couched as some "truth".

This is a really rare moment I have to agree with the genius of roach      But yea its quite simple that weight is a giant factor in anything related to space, its not practical and there is cheaper gold on earth available.    Its quite often the case gold can be recovered in low amounts of say less then 1 gram per ton but its not worth their time and energy to sort out the gold, the gold is left in the ground or just thrown away.   They recover quite alot of gold from the major cities in Japan, in the sewers.   I think in space it might be water that is most valuable

I know the great mines of South Africa are related to a giant meteor that cratered there many years ago.  However it was how it altered the earth not the minerals it bought that mattered.   There is vast quantities of gold within the earths molten core and even more in the sea, however in each case they are distributed and really not easily obtainable.    When we get free energy we can get that gold perhaps and go after the stars also

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witwatersrand_Basin

That's the point of economic resets.  The rich are the ones that lose the most.  The middle class and poor already have nothing to lose.  People who are billionaires and such will only retain what they are able to physically control and defend from both the govt and random citizens trying to steal it, or stash in a cave somewhere like some sort of pirate.  So...most of them choose gold for that reason even though it's obvious silver will outperform it.  If you're confident in your ability to either hide or defend what you have from both the govt and people named Tyrone trying to take it, then silver it is.

I understand that. And even in my country my government says so since Gold is tax free, but silver is not. But whenever i go i read how gold silver rate is to high as it was in past and should get closer. So people speculate buying solver is better then gold. But when you think how to store and handle it then , ...

thats what gold is for.

A $40k bar is the size of a smart phone.

I agree. Silver is problem to store even on Earth. So dreaming about it in space is far to early. I remember in January I was thinking to turn part of my crypto into silver and when saw how big pile would that be I immediately stooped thinking of silver.

Bullshit and you people that keep spamming this just make yourselves look stupid each time you type it.  Mining gold that costs a million dollars an ounce to produce in space is not viable and is absolutely ZERO threat to anyone that purchased gold that was mined on earth.  Since silver weighs more/takes up more space for what they would be trying to bring back, it's even LESS viable to mine in space and was already a better buy than gold anyway.  So stop even talking about gold in the first place when the GSR is 80:1 and silver is like god himself walking up and handing you a platter of free money by buying it instead.

I don't know if I made my point clear, but gold mining in space is a real issue if our civilization lasts another 50 years.


Gold is kind of useless. So it will be mined as a by-product of the useful stuff. After it is mined it can very easily be loaded onto a rocket and parachuted into the earth.

Compared to the tiny amount of gold that we can mine on earth, the amount of gold you could get from an asteroid is stupendous.

If you truly think that people won't just rocket boost that space gold back to earth for a quick buck from people who like shiny things you're wrong. Somebody will find that asteroid containing 100 Trillion worth of gold at today's prices, and when they drop that baby onto planet earth the price of gold will decrease 10-fold.

Don't underestimate the possibility of that.


And it's not like you need to go to space to mine gold. There certainly is plenty of gold left to mine right here on planet earth.

Also what happens if a company simply puts equipment in an asteroid and then sells the gold to investors? Couldn't the price of gold drop without the gold even being transported to earth?

I could continue at length about just this small facet of why gold is inferior to Bitcoin as a currency but I won't. I think I've made my point.

Bitcoin is truly limited and deflationary even. Gold is inflationary and it's value is questionable.

Don't bother responding to Anonymint about metals.  All he's doing is praying shitcoins win and metals don't go up because he owns shitcoins and no metals.  He's just a disinformation agent at this point.  Anyone with a clue about markets knows metals are currently in one of the largest inverse bubbles in world history and the upcoming metals bull run will be that of legend:

QE programs are related to dollar worth because the bonds ultimately will pay out value in Dollars.   Bonds while constantly renewed do not especially appear in the normal money supply, hence how they are tied to Pensions.    That excess supply of dollars is what will appear to make gold rise in price, the market valuing stability of supply in gold over the idea of QE

I'd agree a goldbug is excluding the value of other possibilities, usually especially bearish.  Technology being strongly growth related would not appear to match a good bearish case.    I dont think most gold holders are goldbugs, the largest buyers of gold now are central banks and I presume they are going to use that gold as a reserve asset maybe nationally to back paper government issuance.   Having a practical use for gold would not represent a bearish scenario, probably goes back to the gold smiths handing out credit notes hundreds of years ago.   The notes had a utility to them in their exchange, the gold became monetised and it enabled liquidity and growth by that value being exchanged easily same argument as BTC might have in many scenarios.


Gold can also be mined out of the ground by anyone with some skill.   I know thats an idealistic point of view, most gold is mined by large professional companies.   But its not true of all gold supply, there is a section of gold found which can be available to anyone in that area depending on luck to some extent.

This could also be stated as a negative as gold miners disrupt native peoples in the amazon rain forest for example.   Its considered quite destructive mining and with the use of mercury also dangerous

A goldbug actually means, if a person likes having gold. Gold is treated as an investment, so it doesn't mean that all goldbugs hold a shitload of gold. A true goldbug never really likes bitcoin. Or any crypto. Its against their traditions.

What do QE programs have to do with goldbugs?

Also the elite already own the gold so why would they make it worthless and start over with bitcoin?

This represents inefficiency then, every free capitalist market is driven by efficiency in line with profitable arbitrage.    To have a build up of transaction fees represented failure I think.   I really see this as a problem for BTC overall, that it has a rising cost of processing is not ok.  
                However I think the protocol can be developed further and will harness technology to become more able for the same price.  Thats the path of every other industry and technology, over times cars have invariably become pretty amazing.  People may look down on some random junker car but the average has gifted even the cheapest cars with fuel injection and impressive reliability.  I'm old enough to remember when old cars rusted away in the rain and the engines became horribly unbalanced as the carburettor no longer throttled properly.  Fixable sure but not reliable or especially efficient, nowadays people buy new just to show off but its undeniable that the base technology improved, became cheaper more able.  

I do expect BTC to either improve or lose the game to another parallel innovation.  Of what kind I dont know but ultimately none of us chooses who wins or loses, its the giant market of billions of people who as a herd will determine who gets that great cost advantage of serving the masses.   Its obvious to us all that US dollar is horrible flawed and weakened by political bias, but I dont presume a successor.

By arrogant I just mean the human trait we are all guilty of.  BTC came a long way and its reasonable to presume it will just continue, I think it will require constant work to not fall by the wayside.  It will need more transaction capability, better quality of service and ideally be perfectly cheap for the very poorest people because theres billions of those people not served by USD treasury debt traded in 100k bundles currently.  Thats the market vacuum waiting for a worthy successor imo


If you would believe BTC replaces gold in this elite wealth idea, then what would be in the position of silver or copper for the masses in that scenario ?

You seem to not understand that the masses will be kicked off because when BTC rises to $million+ then transaction fees in excess of $5000 (perhaps as high as $50,000) per transaction.
TPTB pay the fees to themselves since they are also eventually the miners. TPTB don’t need to buy Bitcoin from the masses, the masses will pay it to them as transaction fees.

Again I already told you they needed Bitcoin to develop organically from the bottom-up so that there would be no resistance to the NWO. Bitcoin has to become everyone's unit-of-account first before everyone is totally kicked off. The kicking off will occur in stages as the price and transaction fees rise organically.

And again, no one will be able to prove that there's anyone in control of Bitcoin. If they had done it only for themselves from the start, it would never be adopted by the world. There would be resistance.

This is private information that should remain private. You reveal your identity and prove how much money you have and see how it works out for you.


Not for long:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.44570029

Also more than 2% of the Japanese population owns cryptocurrency as of end of 2017. Rising rapidly.

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It's important to distinguish butthurt ego from facts (the link explains that Iron was a precious metal and money 323 B.C.). So not only is the trend of gold just a small fraction of recorded civilization, but there is a chart of an inexorable trend of decline in value for physical things at that link.

There was never any arrogance involved. You are projecting your own ego there.



No technology really has inexorably made physical things less and less valuable. And the Internet and the computer are accelerating that trend to the extent that gold is losing its function as money. Paper money was the first invention that relegated gold to second tier status, and now Bitcoin will replace the second tier as well. The fat lady is about to sing on gold.

Base use for gold might be as plain metal, rare because its only made in supernovas but all the same available in quantities suitable for electronics and jewellery even.    The reason its used for money over thousands of years is because it never degrades or changes, its perfectly divisible and ideal for trade and storing of wealth.  
I think its arrogant to believe we have altered a trend that has been in existence that long.  Maybe it'll be a great thing when it does happen, perhaps free energy will mean gold is a pointless weight from then on.   Bitcoin is a technology while great its not replacing the idea and worth of gold, it may be more convenient but its not a replacement for golds unique qualities as an element.  

I totally love technology have done for decades, great growth is possible and its amazing but in this case it has not made traditional stores of value redundant.   If gold didnt exist, I'd argue the case for other commodities to exist in their long term worth.  Less tradable perhaps as qualities vary but still we haven't altered gold as a metal placed within an economy so a great decline I find especially unlikely.


My personal take on capitalism is that its a bottom up system, with growth primarily occurring with the smallest entities.   The current world system does favour the very largest organisations with a great bias and the world is worse off for it.  If Bitcoin is to do well it'll likely come via enabling the most remote unadvantaged participants in an economy.
Its no insult to say bitcoin is for the smallest trades, its really a great accomplishment if it can do this.    Thats the heart of what a bit is referring to imo and I hope BTC never loses focus to become just a hedge fund ticket.   Besides anything else we already have lots of speculative assets to bet on, BTC should be high utility and the worth really is by accident derived because people keep around those bits in their pocket even when their poor.  Theres a billion poor so get the market cap in essense for the most unlikely poorest traders

You still havent explained why the NWO would bother buying up all existing bitcoin kicking everyone else off the blockchain when they have access to all this free hash power and could just launch NWO-coin with zero initial outlay for their own uses.


Ill pass on taking financial advice from the bible.


That will be about 99.99% of the worlds population currently then.  With everyone destitute who is going to get up for work in the morning to keep the power on, the internet running (could be a problem for your crypto network), the hospitals and shops open?   Do you actually stop and read the bullshit you post?

You claim all this knowledge and yet I bet your broke living paycheck to paycheck with regurgitating Shelby your only sense of importance in life.

Post a signed message including my username from a bitcoin wallet holding over $100k and you have some credibility.

You have some detailed and exhaustive reading to do. You always ignore the links provided because you think you already know-it-all.


The hash power is mostly free for the TPTB that surreptitiously control Bitcoin from behind the veil of anonymity of mining, charged to the collective (i.e. the people of the world) in the form of large government financed CAPEX projects to build hydroelectric dams for example.

Remember the surreptitious control aspect of Bitcoin is critically important. That is how they move to the NWO without any resistance. Nobody can prove that anybody is in control of Bitcoin.



Shelby banned for his behavior of cross-posting, doesn't mean I am banned from sharing any information I find to be interesting. The person was banned, not his ideas.