Topic: When do goldbugs give up? - page 4. (Read 1187 times)

Lately i saw a lot of youtube channels of young people collecting coins and gold. I was really surprised. But I guess we have this stereotype.   Another thing is that Bitcoin will push millennial's, and however is called that generation after them toward, the Gold, because Bitcoin will open their eyes about fiat.

Never underestimate greed and like fiat bitcoin has a new set of elite in control.

I'm not so sure about that. The miners + big players tried to change a few lines of code to increase maxblocksize, but they failed. You think they could succeed in changing a much holier parameter, the 21 million coin supply?

I think such controversial hard forks will only become harder to implement as time goes on.

lol, bear market for years? that same exact logic applied to bitcoin in late 2015/early 2016. gold literally just ended its biggest bubble in history in 2011 (10 years of hyper bull), what would you expect? immediate explosion into another bubble!?

and how is it propaganda? it's just history. gold is regarded by society as a valuable commodity---that's a simple fact with historical backing. the point was about the difference in risk profile: bitcoin's incentives, consensus methods and robustness are simply not time-tested, certainly not when compared to longstanding everyday commodities with sizeable demand over hundreds or thousands of years.

i'm not a goldbug, btw. i very much prefer bitcoin. just talking about risk...... bitcoin is a brand new kind of asset, untested in many ways. it can't just spring up overnight and immediately be considered a traditional investment/hedging asset. it should be considered very high risk/high reward.

They should rename this thread to Indiana r0ach and the temple of noobs.  There's 1/3rd the amount of above ground, investment grade silver today than in 1980 back when silver hit all time highs.  ONE THIRD.  If that's not "deflationary", I don't know what is.  However, there's twice as much gold now as back then.  Then you have other circumstances like silver being the most artificially suppressed asset on the planet, as evidenced by open interest in the COT reports, with gold being nowhere near artificially suppressed (platinum is #2 with gold being way down the line).

It's not even required for someone to pump silver.  All it takes is for the current price rigging scheme to fail and the price goes to outter space.  Rothschild said just the other day the current post-war Bretton woods is now failing....which is just a synonym for the metals price rigging scheme to support the dollar.  So yea, metals are a complete asymmetric trade right now while shitcoins are not.  Even within the govt's rigged system, there was an over 90% correlation between metals and US debt, and they just recently artificially broke even that correlation to try and support NIRP/ZIRP. 

Gold should be around $2500 an ounce even within their rigged and suppressed system.  Silver would shoot up to around $75 when that correlation eventually corrects.  All they're really doing right now is attempting to rig the system right up until the very day a new Bretton Woods occurs, so probably don't expect metals to make their move until you see some economic catastrophe in the headlines forcing them into a new Bretton Woods deal.  When that deal occurs, gold will not be $2500 and silver will not be $75.  It will be more like ten thousand dollar gold and several hundreds of dollars an ounce silver and everyone who is not holding those two assets at the time gets a massive haircut.

What will more likely come first, enough computing power available to a powerful organisation or government to render bitcoins encryption useless or asteroid mining space ships with access to a powerful and cheap enough energy source to make it cost effective.

What reason is there to mine it from asteroids? Presumably there's more than enough already for actual industrial use. The only reason to mine it in, um, outer space would be to sell it to speculators at which point it's no longer economic to mine it.

The more interesting one is gold in seawater. At the moment the cost of extracting is five times more than the value but that's got to be cheaper than going all Buck Rogers.

7 Trillion.

Gold is just a shiny metal. Eventually we'll mine it from asteroids and the price will, like the asteroid gold. Crash all the way to the ground.


Bitcoin is truly deflationary. People that go all in on gold and avoid bitcoin are short-sighted.

Good one. But this is a long term game. Let's see Bitcoin returns vs Gold returns in a couple of years.


And how that wouldn't legitimize Bitcoin as a store of value? If it's a treat for governments, it's a good store of value. I mean if the government cannot put their hand on your pocket with their endless resources, that they have to go to the lengths of "banning it" (whatever that means), then who will?

By them doing that it will just prove they are impotent. They can't compete, so they attack it (and fail doing so, once again).

Also there's no way "governments" form a global coalition, since when have they? there will be some governments that ban it, then there will be other governments which are pro-Bitcoin, and these countries will be happily accepting Bitcointers to retire there and pay decent tax when they buy their luxury villas and cars and so on.

So when a government bans Bitcoin, they have to think bout all the tax and high purchasing power individuals that they are going to lose long term.

I never knew we were this close to 1 trillion marketcap. I was expecting it to be a lot higher. $60K per bitcoin doesn't sound impossible neither. I think 1 trillion will just start the slow leaking to bitcoin from legacy investments. Also if you think investors ever accept their mistakes than you have never met with any of them in your life. Gold can stay at 7 trillion forever and bitcoin alone itself can become 100 trillion tomorrow and no investor I have ever met will accept their mistakes. They will spew bs like "its risky" or "gold is bla bla" and what not but will never say "I should have invested in bitcoin a bit" or anything similar.

Actually its the other way around, gold is mostly recycled and silver is usually not.

BTC is just electronic digits that are infinitely divisible so there will never be a shortage, it just depends what value you put on a satoshi.  Supply is also only limited by a few lines of code that could be changed if the miners + big players decided to do so.  Physical metals are finite and industrial processes and real world use requires a set amount and there is only so much you can keep pulling out of the ground (not taking in to account asteroid mining but that is generations away)

You cant argue the fact that the elite, governments and central banks all base their wealth on physical gold holdings and continue to accumulate it (except retarded Canada).  Not one is hording bitcoin.

Central banks run the world with governments their public facing puppets.  The minute they consider bitcoin a risk to their power base and control they will do everything in their power to end it.  All the signs point to state issued cryptos in the pipeline and that doesnt bode well for "unregulated" crytpos.

That's goldbug propaganda as far as I'm concerned.  I read that same statement over and over on coinflation's articles, and it doesn't really mean anything.  It doesn't make a lick of difference when gold has been in a bear market for years now.

I won't argue your point about shitcoins, because you're absolutely correct, but as far as the statement about silver's industrial uses goes, that's just more propaganda.  All of that silver used in industry is recycled.  None of it is really lost.  The US Mint alone is producing millions of silver eagles a year in addition to all of their silver commemoratives and proof sets--and there's enough silver around for all of the other mints in the world to basically do the same thing. 

My point is that there no shortage whatsoever of silver, and it doesn't matter if it's being used in industry.  You didn't explicitly make that point that there's a shortage, but I hear that argument a lot in the coinflation articles I mentioned.  And it's bullshit.

Except silver is one of the most important industrial metals used in electronics, solar panels, photography etc so nothing like a shitcoin with no real world application.

Those orthodox investors will never accept and adopt new technologies, I am afraid. Moreover, bitcoin's marketcap is the criteria only for the people who are following bitcoin in the consideration of investing/adopting it whereas for the people who are still believe into the multi fold futures of gold, only enlighten them with long hours of explanation about the futures of bitcoin and how it is going to replace paypal/dollars/gold with their own specialized reasons, may enable them to think over to switch/add bitcoin to their portfolio.

By January 2017, bitcoin prices beat gold prices of one ounce similarly we may expect bitcoin marketcap will beat gold's in coming years as without Warren Buffet kind of old veteran's support also bitcoin is growing with rapid pace. Probably if Warren Buffet and other stock market giants and institutions will get convinced about the futures of bitcoin then those 'goldbugs' may change their minds.

Gold is for the olde generation people,here we are into the most modern technology so they will never give on the gold until the market value of bitcoin exceeds the cap value of gold,so it is still long time process since we are just about $100 Billion only for now!

every day that passes and with every increase in adoption, banning bitcoin becomes harder and harder specially as they regulate bitcoin. for example in a couple of years as price hits $60k and we start seeing big businesses shape around bitcoin (like Coinbase which already exists), then they can't just ban bitcoin and kill these multi million dollar businesses. so we may end up seeing bitcoin banned in some under developed countries like India and Bangladesh which this one has already banned bitcoin, but there is no way it can be banned in developed countries like US, Japan,... that will have already been mass adopted bitcoin by then.

It not only just 10 years history but bitcoin has proven until now that it can be pumped like anyone can't be imagined and after that, it can come back to its original value within no time. This makes many investors think hard to invest in bitcoin. But I do agree that one should invest their small percentage of money into bitcoin and it may do wonders in near future. Diversifying funds always a good in investment.

Then again, gold is down 15% over the past few months. Sure, it hasn't seen as much downside as BTC this year, but it's been a harsh year nonetheless for goldbugs.

The 1-month chart is quite ugly....strong downtrend in effect. I accumulated quite a bit physical gold near the lows in late 2015. I'm starting to sweat over those positions a bit.

well said. the point here is about value storage. gold may not rise nearly as much as bitcoin over time (though the 2001-2011 run was pretty magnificent). but there are other considerations. gold has a history of thousands of years; bitcoin, less than 10. that's a huge difference in risk profile.

that's why it makes sense for wealthy people to dump only a small amount into bitcoin. they need to hedge wisely, not strike it rich.

Goldbugs get a hefty amount of derision too despite their pet rock having value being thousands of years old as a concept.

I don't think they'll ever give up but they may well die off in unprecedented numbers. Never in my entire life have I heard anyone below the age of 70 express the slightest interest in metals. As long as it's an integral part of international finance it's not going anywhere but I expect retail to fade.

As for me, it's now 38 years since gold's all time high and it's over 50% down from then inflation adjusted. I'll take me chances elsewhere. I'll be long dead before it's up there again. And silver is the tangible equivalent of a shitcoin as far as I'm concerned.