Topic: when should you shoot a cop - page 2. (Read 5535 times)

I don't drive a motor vehicle. Those are for commercial entities. I travel in an automobile for personal pleasure. That is a right.

Anyways, read Common Law some time. It probably doesn't apply to you since you revoked your right to travel when you signed your license.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cci5MSvsSmc

Holy shit there's so much wrong with this paragraph, it's comical:


You don't have a "common law right" to travel with darker windshields. You don't even have a common law right to operate a motor vehicle, it's a privilege (though the same could be said about firearms ownership in most states, the lines are pretty blurred).

The gun won't usually be in your face (again, let's try keep emotions and action-movie masturbation to a minimum if we're going to have a serious discussion about defensive firearms use) - if they're going to extract you from a vehicle with tinted windows they'll usually tell you over the PA to stay put while they wait for another officer. Then they point the guns at you from a fair distance, and ask you to slowly exit the vehicle with your hands up. Then it's either hands on the roof, the hood, or get on your belly so they can approach for a pat-down. Most of which is utterly negated if you know the procedure cops take, and you turn your dome light on, roll down your window and put 8 fingers out over the edge of the door so they can see you're not going to shoot 'em.

My point was that there are (albeit questionable ethics, I'll concede that) lawful scenarios where a cop might point a gun at you - it's part and parcel of having a strong right to bear arms. In the unlikely event it ceases to be a lawful action, regular self-defense rules apply.

I can't think of any time it's lawful for a person to harass me for using my common law right to travel while having darker windshields. The officer's safety should never come into question when I'm using my property and not aggressing against another person. A gun in my face is emotionally distressing and harm against my person. My preference in my property does not entail that.

What? Cops, by definition of their jobs, have responsibilities above plumbers and other citizens. A cop pointing a gun at you is, depending on the jurisdiction, not necessarily a deadly threat. If you have illegal tint on your windows of your car and you get pulled over at night, there's a pretty good chance you'll be extracted at gunpoint just for the safety of the officer, and as long as they follow protocol it's usually not unlawful. I can't think of any comparable scenario where a plumber can point a gun at you and it's lawful.

But as I said, if the cop isn't acting in a lawful manner, then he's just some asshole with a gun - same as the plumber. That's the distinction.

Yeah, I agree. 'Never' is self evidently wrong.


That's really convenient, no?

Why magic rules here? If we said "When should you shoot a plumber?" would you say, "Never, if he starts killing you with his plunger he's not a plumber anymore."?

'Profession' doesn't matter. Either you protect your self from dangerous humans or you don't.

The police system is horribly corrupt. Don't assume cops will be held accountable for their wrong-doings.

... and 5 minutes later you woke up with a handful of melted ice cream.

You don't need to go completely over the top in your scenario to prove "never" is wrong, you simply need to point out that when a cop acts outside the law, he ceases to be a cop, so the standard self defense rules apply. In the very unlikely event that this scenario coincides with said "cop" threatening to cause you immediate harm, again, depending on numerous factors such as where you live, you should have the right to defend yourself. Just make damn sure that you're right about what the cop's doing, because if it turns out he's giving you a lawful order and you blow him away... well let's just say cop killers don't get the greatest of treatment by the criminal justice system.

Really? Do you have no imagination?

Cop and his partner break in your door. Cop kills your family then his partner. Explains how you are going to prison for the murders because the gun he used is unregistered and he's going to put your prints on it, not to mention testify that you did it.

But he's lowered his weapon and didn't expect you'd have one inside your jacket.

Never is bull.

Ah, ok, that makes sense.

Because your point of view is an ultimate penalty. And that should be your decision to make not mine , not your neighbors , not ours ,your and your Only.  Because only you know how the theft affected you. I'm not saying your viewpoint is bad or good , all I'm saying that i don't want a law like that
this is just my view point.

I wasn't really trying to force people into my viewpoint.  Just trying to understand why my viewpoint isn't held by others...

Consent on what seems right/wrong to you.

never..

Not sure what you mean by "don't try to make others consent".  Consent to what?

Its good to see alot of "free-minded" people in discussion about a very important and urgent topic. And for those of you who spewed "never" or anything along those lines, you need to wake up from that dream your living in. Bitcoin seems to attract the extremes on both sides, those who are competely 'in the know', and those who have no idea wtf is going on.

Then do what you believe is right and assume the responsibility don't try to make others consent.

To clarify, it was things OUTSIDE the house that were stolen.  I'd probably have moved by now if they were break and enter thefts!  Had a bicycle in my gated carport that was stolen, a pumpkin a few days ago off my porch, my wife's car gone though, a Christmas wreath from the front door disappeared, etc.  Doesn't make one put much faith in the neighborhood, or the legal system for that matter.  If it were up to me, I'd spend some nights sitting in my darkened living room with the rifle loaded and a window open.

@SgtSpike Wow 5 break-ins! That might change my opinion also. I still might not shoot a burglar if I caught him, but I might rob him before letting him go.

You got me there.  I can't think of anything that is worth more than a life.

I suppose I am the type who would post up a sign on my property that says "trespassers will be shot".  Not because trespassers deserve to be shot, but because I would want to keep people off of my property who might do something malicious to me, my family, or my things.  And really, as soon as someone enters my property without authorization or good reason (i.e., the postman delivery a package to my door or something equally legitimate), I would feel that my life is threatened.  I would much rather avoid confrontation entirely than have those feelings.

And I love avoiding confrontation through threats.  If I was lawfully able to shoot anyone who came on my property and tried to steal my things, then there'd be a lot less of that happening.  But since I am not lawfully able to defend my property with the threat of killing anyone who tries to take it, there's a lot of theft.  Thieves know that, no matter what they do, they are not risking losing their life by stealing from people.  If that were a real threat, they might reconsider their choice of career.

FWIW, I've had things stolen from around my house five times now since I moved there three years ago.  None of the times I actually witnessed the theft, but it's dang frustrating that there's little I can do about it except file a useless police report.

I don't know sarge. Do you really own anything worth more than a life? It's not that I'm a pacifist, like any American I have all sorts of guns and I have a Utah permit to carry. But I would not shoot anyone for stealing my stuff, even my bitcoins.
I've seen war and killing on three continents now, they are not good memories.