When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with enforced tax

Abiky

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Quote from: Blitzboy on September 06, 2023, 09:03:17 AM

In fact, Bitcoin's basic design represents a trend toward decentralization and self-sovereignty. But the debate is not just about Bitcoin versus Fiat; it also concerns the fundamental philosophy of blockchain technology. It could be compared to the monetary system shedding its old shell to show a more robust and transparent financial exoskeleton.

Although you pointed out that fees in Bitcoin are frequently perceived as needless, they are actually crucial to maintaining the security and stability of the system. That cost? It serves as a barrier against dangers from without as well as a means of payment.

Fiat's centralized structure has repeatedly demonstrated to us that it is vulnerable to fraud, inflation, and corruption. The paradigm that Bitcoin challenges forces us to consider a more egalitarian financial future. Bitcoin has the potential to displace traditional currencies as we go farther into the digital era. When rather than if is the question.

Bitcoin can replace traditional currencies (Fiat), but that will never happen. That's because governments won't allow something decentralized to dominate the mainstream economy. It will be less power for the government, and more control for the people. Despite Bitcoin's inability to replace Fiat, it's still the best thing around to protect your financial freedom. BTC can't be debased, confiscated, or frozen at will.

The fees are the only price you're paying to enjoy the benefits of decentralization and censorship-resistance. This is a lot better than having to use a heavily-manipulated currency (Fiat) that can lose its value anytime. The more people join the Bitcoin train, the faster Fiat will lose its dominance in the mainstream world. Some countries are beginning to adopt BTC as legal tender, so expect the unexpected. Who knows what the future lies for the cryptocurrency? Just my thoughts Grin

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Maybe you're just viewing bitcoin from afar and yet to know what it's all about, how can you be comparing a digital decentralized currency to that of a centralized fiat currency as being thesame, obviously his only indicates that probably you also don't have a good understanding of what bitcoin is and so on, bitcoin transaction is not like fiat, you can know and modify your transaction fee with bitcoin to your best of interest, but in fiat you dare not tries it at all.

Wakate

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Quote from: pinggoki on September 09, 2023, 05:00:59 AM

Dude was such a troll, leaving such a controversial topic and then not replying for days and people are still mad about and tries to explain it to OP, as if he/she cares. Don't waste your energy putting scathing comments on this post because it will fall on deaf ears. Besides, it's just words, we know what bitcoin is and what isn't so we should be better Grin

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I think op is not really serious to check the post he created and who knows if he ever login since he drop this post. He might have checked several times and still not really any single person because he/she knows that the post would attract a lot of controversial comments and he still doesn't care. Bitcoin is self sufficient as one of the major currency I'm the market right that determine the direction of thousands of coins. Open if op will look further because there are lot to gain from the crypto space.

The Cryptovator

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Don't compare tax with transaction fees. Tax given from your earnings to the government. Transaction fees are given to miners since they confirm your transaction. Miners working behind the scenes and earning There is nothing to be learned about taxes here. If you don't want to pay fees, then your transaction won't be confirmed anyway, or a lower fee transaction would cause dust on the Bitcoin network.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Have you learned more about Bitcoin? You have to read the Bitcoin whitepaper very carefully so that your mind will be open because Bitcoin is not fiat and the fee charged for each Bitcoin transaction is not tax.

Quote

“Fiat” is a term used in economics and finance to refer to currency that is issued by the government of a country and has no intrinsic value. This means that fiat currency is not guaranteed by physical value such as gold or silver, but its value is assigned by government authorities and accepted by society as a legal medium of exchange.

[1] GOOGLE

Quote

"Taxes" are mandatory payments that individuals, businesses, or legal entities must pay to the government as a source of revenue to finance government spending and provide public services. Taxes are used by governments to fund a variety of programs and projects, including infrastructure, education, health care, defense, and various other public services.

[1] GOOGLE

In essence, fiat and tax are products and programs issued by the government, but bitcoin is not a product issued by the government so bitcoin is not worthy of being called fiat, while the fee charged for each bitcoin transaction is wages for miners because they have processed each transaction which happened, i hope you understand.

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Quote from: dzungmobile on September 09, 2023, 04:23:16 AM

Quote from: jossiel on September 09, 2023, 04:11:36 AM

The tax that will be implemented is based on how much you've earned from it upon selling. Just as the stocks, there's always the capital gains and it's also applicable to real estate.

Can not generalize things like this. Taxation depends on each nation, each government and their policies.

Like in may nation, sometimes they charge you personal tax even the year has yet ended. At the end, you must to make report, document and get your pre-tax fee back. I guess it is very different from developed countries where laws and taxation are clearer as they have spent many years to adjust their laws and taxation. In nations where there are separation of powers, citizens have better laws and taxation is clearer for them but they must be frankly and precisely with tax reports.

[Tutorial] Crypto taxes for beginners

Yeah, it varies from country to country and there are countries that don't have taxation for gains like this. But the point is that, the source where you've made money will still be having a tax based on the majority countries that we know that have such laws.

But with the example I have given, it is what OP is pointing out about Bitcoin is just another fiat with forceful tax.

So by having that comparison, it seems that it's what he's really pointing out.

pinggoki

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Dude was such a troll, leaving such a controversial topic and then not replying for days and people are still mad about and tries to explain it to OP, as if he/she cares. Don't waste your energy putting scathing comments on this post because it will fall on deaf ears. Besides, it's just words, we know what bitcoin is and what isn't so we should be better Grin

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mindrust

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I don’t think you know what you are talking about mate. Bitcoin is a decentralized payment system. The network fee has nothing to do with the government so it is not a tax. Governments can tax the businesses that do business with crypto but they cannot tax p2p transactions and that is where bitcoin works wonders. Bitcoin has s freedom. Have you ever found yourself in a position where you need to send money to your friend who lives in another continent? Bitcoin solves this. Banks are too troublesome. F em

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Quote from: bayu7adi on September 09, 2023, 03:48:24 AM

Quote from: Nrcewker on September 09, 2023, 03:27:55 AM

Bitcoins are more of a goods than money. People buy Bitcoins and very less people treat it as money.

The primary purpose of Bitcoin was originally envisioned as an alternative to FIAT currency, allowing individuals to transfer money in a peer-to-peer manner. Perhaps the widespread profit generation from Bitcoin trading has led to the fading of Bitcoin's essence as a currency. Many of us have started using Bitcoin as an investment asset, capitalizing on its price volatility. While this is not discouraged, Bitcoin has indeed lost the function originally formulated by Satoshi Nakamoto.

However, Bitcoin stands in stark contrast to FIAT currencies. This means that for anyone who grows weary of unfavorable banking policies, there's no harm in holding Bitcoin and attempting to use it as a more liberating means of payment.

Bitcoin's creator, Satoshi Nakamoto, wanted a decentralized digital money. A new perspective on financial freedom. But due of its volatility and media attention, the focus has switched to how to earn money with it.

Bitcoin is sometimes referred to as "digital gold," but its technology is the same. Blockchain allows peer-to-peer transfers, eliminating middlemen. Some owners' talk about profits overshadows this. Bitcoin may be a money and an investment, demonstrating its versatility.

However, its instability must be considered if you utilize it as your main currency. Bitcoin offers a solution for those who dislike traditional institutions, but it also introduces new issues. Because it can be used as a money and an investment, crypto experts debate and research it.

dzungmobile

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Quote from: jossiel on September 09, 2023, 04:11:36 AM

The tax that will be implemented is based on how much you've earned from it upon selling. Just as the stocks, there's always the capital gains and it's also applicable to real estate.

Can not generalize things like this. Taxation depends on each nation, each government and their policies.

Like in may nation, sometimes they charge you personal tax even the year has yet ended. At the end, you must to make report, document and get your pre-tax fee back. I guess it is very different from developed countries where laws and taxation are clearer as they have spent many years to adjust their laws and taxation. In nations where there are separation of powers, citizens have better laws and taxation is clearer for them but they must be frankly and precisely with tax reports.

[Tutorial] Crypto taxes for beginners

jossiel

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

The tax that will be implemented is based on how much you've earned from it upon selling. Just as the stocks, there's always the capital gains and it's also applicable to real estate.

So, if we're going to compare real estate as an asset just as Bitcoin, that means that real estate properties are also fiat?

Network fee is normal just as the banks are asking for processing fees.

bayu7adi

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Quote from: Nrcewker on September 09, 2023, 03:27:55 AM

Bitcoins are more of a goods than money. People buy Bitcoins and very less people treat it as money.

The primary purpose of Bitcoin was originally envisioned as an alternative to FIAT currency, allowing individuals to transfer money in a peer-to-peer manner. Perhaps the widespread profit generation from Bitcoin trading has led to the fading of Bitcoin's essence as a currency. Many of us have started using Bitcoin as an investment asset, capitalizing on its price volatility. While this is not discouraged, Bitcoin has indeed lost the function originally formulated by Satoshi Nakamoto.

However, Bitcoin stands in stark contrast to FIAT currencies. This means that for anyone who grows weary of unfavorable banking policies, there's no harm in holding Bitcoin and attempting to use it as a more liberating means of payment.

Nrcewker

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

How are you telling Bitcoins are equivalent to fiat? Bitcoins are limited in numbers, whereas fiat has unlimited supply as long as the government wants. Bitcoins are more of a goods than money. People buy Bitcoins and very less people treat it as money. Regarding the fees, then these are not tax at all, these are just the fees for the transaction to set the speed of the transfer. In all the aspects you are wrong OP.

Mauser

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

This is a wrong view of the crypto community, it would be more fitting to say that nothing is for free in life. Taxes are paid to the government of the country you live, your transaction fee is not going to the government but rather the system processing your transaction. Why shouldn't they get money? It's their computers and electricity that keeps the infrastructure alive. Also you need to compare to the alternative which is using the bank infrastructure to transfer money, here you also have to pay fees. Either by regular monthly fees of your bank account, or by giving your money cheaply to the bank so that they can invest it and make a profit with it. Every system involves cost that need to be covered somehow. I find transaction cost transparent and we know beforehand what will the cost be.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Should I believe this was just an idea that suddenly popped into your head and you decided to put it here? But you are absolutely wrong—very, very wrong.

Do you even know that Bitcoin is a proof-of-work coin? Do you know that there are miners who are helping to process every transaction that we sign, and those fees we spend while carrying out Bitcoin transactions are being received by those miners?

Do you also know that if you are a miner, you can broadcast your transaction yourself and receive the fee?

Let's take an example: in the bank, you are being charged for an SMS fee, debit and credit card fees, and levy fees, and you still pay tax. All those fees you are paying are used by the bank to also pay their staff, maintain the bank, and pay other stuff they have to pay to the government and the central banks.

But in a Bitcoin transaction, you don't have to pay for any debit or credit card; you don't have to pay for levy or deposit SmS alart because Bitcoin is not centralized like Fiat. When referring to fiat, you pay a lot of charges in those financial institutions, but with Bitcoin, through p2p, you will only need to pay for the withdrawal fee.

Common man, where is your mind for drawing that kind of conclusion?

Blitzboy

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Quote from: Abiky on September 05, 2023, 10:23:38 PM

Quote from: laris2 on August 31, 2023, 08:10:43 AM

I'd say never, because Bitcoin is not fiat with enforced tax. You pay tax on your profits, tell me when is your fiat generating profit for you?

Fiat is slavery. Bitcoin is not. With Fiat, you're subject to the rules of the government and the central bank itself. They enforce taxes on nearly anything you could imagine. With Bitcoin, that's not the case (although you're required by law to pay taxes on your crypto income). What's only deducted from your balance is a network fee that is used to support the miners. There's no such thing as "free lunch", anyways.

Without fees, BTC would be highly-vulnerable against spam attacks. If the OP takes a "deep dive" into Bitcoin, he will realize it's more than just a currency. It's revolution. The tech underpinning Bitcoin will radically transform our society in ways that were never imagined. It will enable a future of self-sovereignity, privacy, and decentralization. Who knows if BTC ends up beating Fiat as the predominant currency in the world? Just my thoughts Grin

In fact, Bitcoin's basic design represents a trend toward decentralization and self-sovereignty. But the debate is not just about Bitcoin versus Fiat; it also concerns the fundamental philosophy of blockchain technology. It could be compared to the monetary system shedding its old shell to show a more robust and transparent financial exoskeleton.

Although you pointed out that fees in Bitcoin are frequently perceived as needless, they are actually crucial to maintaining the security and stability of the system. That cost? It serves as a barrier against dangers from without as well as a means of payment.

Fiat's centralized structure has repeatedly demonstrated to us that it is vulnerable to fraud, inflation, and corruption. The paradigm that Bitcoin challenges forces us to consider a more egalitarian financial future. Bitcoin has the potential to displace traditional currencies as we go farther into the digital era. When rather than if is the question.

ancafe

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Try a little harder to understand bitcoin so that the diction in the placement of language and words when you make posts will be much more educational to discuss. Networking fees are not referred to as applicable taxes and you should understand that before jumping into postings.

Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Logically taxes must be paid even if you don't run or use them, for example to better understand what taxes and transaction fees are. You buy a car and even though you haven't used the car for several years, it is your obligation to pay taxes, while you will pay transaction fees if a transaction occurs, simple and not so difficult to distinguish between the two. When you store bitcoin anywhere and never engage in transaction activities, you don't need to incur transaction fees.

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on September 05, 2023, 11:19:33 PM

Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Its been 2 whole years you joined this forum, and if after 2 whole years of being here, you still lack the basic knowledge and understanding of bitcoin, then I personally do not think you deserve to still be here, lack of education is a disease my friend, try as much as possible to get some Bitcoin education or do you need a total overhaul of your brain before you can understand?

Seeing bitcoin as fiat is the most ridiculous thing I've heard or seen someone say on this forum, even with every other features embedded in bitcoin which clearly defines its total separation, you didn't see those, but only saw the transaction fees associated with bitcoin transfers as an enforced tax, how more ridiculous can someone be Grin

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If I remember correctly, another thread created by the OP was also a thread spreading negative things about bitcoin. I think the issue lies not in the OP's lack of bitcoin-related knowledge, but rather in his deep-rooted aversion towards bitcoin. His motive seems to revolve around tarnishing bitcoin's reputation to dissuade individuals from engaging with it. He tries to survive on the forum with the purpose of sabotaging us, not with any good purpose. But one thing he got wrong is that everyone here is not as naive as he thought, everyone is completely knowledgeable about bitcoin and fully aware of what they are doing.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Some people believe that Bitcoin is a decentralized currency that is not subject to government control, while others believe that it is a form of fiat currency that is subject to government regulation and taxation.

There are a few key differences between Bitcoin and traditional fiat currencies. First, Bitcoin is not issued by a central bank. Instead, it is created through a process called mining, which involves solving complex mathematical problems. Second, Bitcoin is not backed by any government or asset. Its value is derived from its scarcity and its use as a medium of exchange.

However, there are also some similarities between Bitcoin and traditional fiat currencies. For example, both Bitcoin and fiat currencies can be used to purchase goods and services. Both can also be subject to government regulation and taxation.

Ultimately, whether Bitcoin is just fiat with enforced tax is a matter of opinion. There are valid arguments to be made on both sides of the issue.
Only time will tell whether Bitcoin will become a widely accepted currency or whether it will remain a niche asset. However, it is clear that Bitcoin is a complex and controversial topic, and there are valid arguments to be made on both sides of the issue.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 06:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Its been 2 whole years you joined this forum, and if after 2 whole years of being here, you still lack the basic knowledge and understanding of bitcoin, then I personally do not think you deserve to still be here, lack of education is a disease my friend, try as much as possible to get some Bitcoin education or do you need a total overhaul of your brain before you can understand?

Seeing bitcoin as fiat is the most ridiculous thing I've heard or seen someone say on this forum, even with every other features embedded in bitcoin which clearly defines its total separation, you didn't see those, but only saw the transaction fees associated with bitcoin transfers as an enforced tax, how more ridiculous can someone be Grin

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