When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with enforced tax - page 2.

Abiky

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Quote from: laris2 on August 31, 2023, 09:10:43 AM

I'd say never, because Bitcoin is not fiat with enforced tax. You pay tax on your profits, tell me when is your fiat generating profit for you?

Fiat is slavery. Bitcoin is not. With Fiat, you're subject to the rules of the government and the central bank itself. They enforce taxes on nearly anything you could imagine. With Bitcoin, that's not the case (although you're required by law to pay taxes on your crypto income). What's only deducted from your balance is a network fee that is used to support the miners. There's no such thing as "free lunch", anyways.

Without fees, BTC would be highly-vulnerable against spam attacks. If the OP takes a "deep dive" into Bitcoin, he will realize it's more than just a currency. It's revolution. The tech underpinning Bitcoin will radically transform our society in ways that were never imagined. It will enable a future of self-sovereignity, privacy, and decentralization. Who knows if BTC ends up beating Fiat as the predominant currency in the world? Just my thoughts Grin

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 07:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

It is so if we want to abstract the subject, but you cannot come to this conclusion in isolation from the rest of the factors. If we make a simple comparison between Bitcoin (according to your definition) and any fiat money, there is no similarity between them. The process of sending fiat money takes place through a third-party intermediary who will charge a fee for his service, in addition to a complete lack of privacy, which imposes taxes in all cases. While the process of sending bitcoin does not require the presence of a third party, since bitcoin is a payment system just as it is a currency, and it can be used in all privacy without the authorities noticing that, and we do not have to apply taxes.
Your view of the subject is very limited and lacks objectivity.

MarjorieZimmermanGinger

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 07:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee.

Do you know what tax is? Network and tax costs are two different things and have nothing to do with each other. I realized one thing when making a transaction and when converting Bitcoin to Fiat, the tax will be deducted directly by the centralized exchange. Try to learn more about how Bitcoin works in the White Book and I do not intend to explain further the difference between taxes and network costs because you should try to straighten the understanding independently.

Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 07:22:33 PM

When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Even though my country does not legalize bitcoin as a transaction tool, I still have to pay taxes when making transactions on centralized exchanges. Network fees are a service because anyone is free to send wherever they want and misunderstandings regarding taxes and network fees need to be relearned by you.

bayu7adi

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If you're hesitant about owning Bitcoin due to your country's tax policies, it might be a good idea to empathize with the sentiments of individuals in certain nations where cryptocurrencies are, in fact, deemed illegal.

Each person has their own distinct goals in holding onto crypto, and the most prevalent among these objectives is profit-seeking. In my view, this remains equitable, as long as fees and taxes remain within the bounds of tolerance, and everyone can still reap benefits from it.

Taxes do tend to make a lot of people feel somewhat aggrieved, but with the incorporation of taxes on cryptocurrencies, at the very least, you can possess cryptocurrency without the apprehension of potential apprehension by law enforcement. This also amounts to a privilege, doesn't it?

laris2

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I'd say never, because Bitcoin is not fiat with enforced tax. You pay tax on your profits, tell me when is your fiat generating profit for you?

retreat

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You must know the difference between taxes and fees because they are two different things. If you are a good citizen then you need to pay taxes as a contribution to the country, while fees are one thing you need to pay when using a service. You may not pay taxes, perhaps because you are reluctant to pay them, but you cannot not pay fees because they are used for services that you use directly. So when you equate fees with forced taxes, that is wrong, because the fees you pay directly benefit you, whereas taxes do not.

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Quote from: Sim_card on August 30, 2023, 03:29:45 AM

OP, you need to take your time to study and DYOR so that you will get the proper understanding between fiat and bitcion,transaction fee and tax. When using bitcoin for transaction, there are miners who help add this transaction to the blockchain which is the fee that you pay for them to help you make your transaction successful. Who will render a service for free,then how will be feed. I don't want what job that you are doing,do you tell that at the end of the week or month that you don't need the pay,that you did it voluntarily? I doubt,this is the same with the tx fee. @Charles-Tim has stated the difference between fiat and bitcion, so check it out for yourself.

You're right. No one for "thank you" will not work. Miners should be paid a fee for providing some kind of service, and there should be payment for the services. They would at least cover the cost of equipment and electricity. Recently, something completely shocked me the prices for these components. Payback takes an incredibly long time.
This is the reason why all this commission is charged. For miners, it is natural that the larger it is, the better. But even for a transaction, a high commission guarantees that it will be executed much faster.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 07:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

When will Fiat Banking trolls realize that network fees are not taxes, but merely a cheaper transaction fee than what Fiat Banking customers are paying at Banks.

These trolls obviously do not use the Bitcoin Lightning Network, so they do not know what we are talking about. I think the competition are getting desperate and they are paying the trolls to spam Bitcoin forums like this with worthless FUD. Roll Eyes

The Capital gains taxes that are paid are forced by the Fiat supported government, because Banks are crying and bitching with them to protect their money maker. (Banks charge ridiculous tx fees and high interest rates on Fiat financial services... and the governments protect them with taxpayers tax bailouts) Roll Eyes

GreatArkansas

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Quote from: dimonstration on August 27, 2023, 09:45:42 AM

Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 07:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Bitcoin has limited supply and most importantly its decentralized unlike Fiat that has unlimited supply and government has full control over it. Bitcoin in general doesn’t work like you are suggesting. The government is just controlling the people to treat as fiat but Bitcoin itself doesn’t have tax and network fee is just a transaction fee.

Bitcoin is far better than Fiat because it doesn’t have inflation due to its limited supply.

If just incase this will happen for sure Government is already owned Bitcoin like they are the one controlling but unfortunately it is not happening or it will not happen because Bitcoin built as different, it is built to be decentralized and have only limited supply only.

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Bitcoin enthusiasts have differing views on its nature, but some argue that it's not equivalent to fiat currency due to its decentralized and limited supply nature. Perspectives vary and may continue to evolve over time.

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 07:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

I get your point but you’re leaving out something pretty massive in your ridiculous rant. Fiat currencies can be printed until they’re worthless and that has been some time and time again throughout history. Bitcoin cannot be printed endlessly by an individual, since its rules are engrained into the network. So it’s supply is set.

Smartvirus

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 07:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Well, your entitled to your opinion and that doesn't make you right!

I would have liked to have a good read on what your trying to imply on the Canada theory to it. If you just might provide a written document or link that sides the message your trying to relay with Canada, it would be nice.

Meanwhile, bitcoin has got nothing yo do with fiat or having it been involved in any for of taxation. On like tax where you get to pay a certain amount based in what you earn, you pay nothing for earning bitcoin and the only time you get to be charged a fee is when your transacting.
Still, it doenst count as tax as they both come by different definitions.
Fees on taking up a transaction varies based on the mempool congestion and as such, a particular mount could have more or less fee but, it ain't the same with tax. It's always the same everytime.

It's okay with you having your thought and contradictory opinion but, hope you get exposed to lots of information here and actually make sense out of them.

coolcoinz

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 07:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

The main difference between bitcoin and fiat in this matter is that when you hold fiat you're taxed for the coins stored every single year. The network fee doesn't "tax" you for storing bitcoin, only for moving it around. This means that in 10 years, with the average 5% yearly inflation, you'll have 50% less purchasing power, while bitcoin, even if its growth stops completely (I don't think it will) you'll have the same purchasing power, minus a small network fee which is just ridiculous compared to banking fees.

To give you a perspective, PayPal charges 3% per transaction, so if you want to buy a phone for 1k, you have to pay $30 in fees. Sending the same amount with bitcoin is going to cost you less than $2.

What's with the "such wow"? Are you a dogecoiner?

KiaKia

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 07:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

When will you realize that you understand nothing about Bitcoin and instead, sit your ass down and learn first? you are a newbie and your point is so invalid, you can see tons of replies proving that you are completely wrong.

Forget everything that you think you know about Bitcoin, you know nothing.

Fiat is different from Bitcoin, and transaction fee is different from tax.

There is no Tax on holding your Bitcoin in your wallet, that's why it's advisable not to keep your Bitcoin on centralized platforms that could rip you off, either through higher transaction fees or using authority since you are not in control of your Bitcoin anymore.

Transaction fee is necessary, it's what adopters pay to miners to get your transaction in the blockchain, and it also keeps it safe.

Why the Bitcoin transaction fee is important

1. Process transactions.
2. For Miners to maintain the Network.
3. Keep the Network flowing.
4. Keeps the Network Safe.

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Quote from: Blitzboy on August 30, 2023, 10:20:27 AM

the fee is not an "enforced tax," as you say. You're right; its a contribution. Fees stabilize the system, prevent spam, and keep the network running like a well-oiled machine. Yeah, I agree with your point, miners need to eat too, and these fees keep their servers humming. Its the invisible hand of economics showing its genius again, but in a digital landscape.

Transaction fees are income for miners who find blocks and confirm transactions. They spend resources to mine Bitcoin blocks and confirm transactions and they spend money for such resources. So they must gain something that includes Block rewards and transation fees. Without income, miners will stop mining and the network will be dead.

Quote

Converting BTC to XMR is an option, but its also an extra step that veers off the straightforward path Bitcoin promises.

You have to use exchange for conversion and it is risky. With Bitcoin if you are careful, you can have good privacy and don't have to use Monero.

[Guide] Decent mixing methods

irhact

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Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 07:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

I don't think bitcoiners are scared of paying taxes, we're law abiding citizen therefore we're required to pay our taxes and we'll do just that. Bitcoin is very different from fiats and one of the ways is how the network is been handled. Fiats is centralized and our transaction are been highly monitored by the government. When using fiat we didn't have the freedom to do with our money want we want as there are limits to transaction done daily from our accounts.

But when you're operating using bitcoin and not keeping your coin on a centralized exchange or wallet, you're free to access your money whenever you want and spent them as it pleases you without having to verify your identity like the banks request to monitor you.

Blitzboy

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Quote from: Abiky on August 30, 2023, 12:09:11 AM

Quote from: hsdjkahskjdh on August 26, 2023, 07:22:33 PM

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

There's no such thing as "free lunch". You'd need to pay a fee for your transaction to go through the Blockchain. Otherwise, the network would be extremely-vulnerable against spam attacks. It would result in higher network congestion to a point where BTC will become unusable. Fees are just a way to protect the network from attackers while supporting the miners. I wouldn't call them an "enforced tax" mechanism, but rather a contribution to the network itself. Everyone benefits in the process. Miners will profit, while you get to enjoy financial freedom.

What's disturbing is how every transaction is visible on the public BTC blockchain. You don't want prying eyes knowing your utmost sensitive info. Fortunately, we have both custodial and non-custodial mixers to use Bitcoin in a private and anonymous way. If that's not enough, you could simply convert BTC to XMR for complete peace of mind. Who knows if BTC becomes a part of our daily life in the future? Just my thoughts Grin

the fee is not an "enforced tax," as you say. You're right; its a contribution. Fees stabilize the system, prevent spam, and keep the network running like a well-oiled machine. Yeah, I agree with your point, miners need to eat too, and these fees keep their servers humming. Its the invisible hand of economics showing its genius again, but in a digital landscape.

However, on the issue of privacy, I find it bothersome. A public ledger? Transparency can be double-edged. On one hand, its the epitome of decentralized ideology; on the other hand, its a privacy nightmare. Sure, you have mixers, but isnt that like putting a band-aid on a bullet hole? Converting BTC to XMR is an option, but its also an extra step that veers off the straightforward path Bitcoin promises.

Sim_card

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OP, you need to take your time to study and DYOR so that you will get the proper understanding between fiat and bitcion,transaction fee and tax. When using bitcoin for transaction, there are miners who help add this transaction to the blockchain which is the fee that you pay for them to help you make your transaction successful. Who will render a service for free,then how will be feed. I don't want what job that you are doing,do you tell that at the end of the week or month that you don't need the pay,that you did it voluntarily? I doubt,this is the same with the tx fee. @Charles-Tim has stated the difference between fiat and bitcion, so check it out for yourself.

Hanadawa

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The most basic difference is, As I quote from one of the economic websites: difference-between-tax-and-fees

Quote

In the first place, a tax is a compulsory contribution made by a taxpayer. A fee, by definition, is a voluntary payment. Secondly, as far as tax is concerned, there is no direct give-and-take relationship between the taxpayer and the tax-levying authority.

So, if you say Bitcoin has a tax, it means that Bitcoin has a fixed value, whereas as we already know, the fee required for each transaction varies between fast or slow depending on how much fee we will issue.
What makes BTC different too is that BTC is decentralized whereas taxes are centralized. BTC has a fixed supply whereas FIAT is currently no longer pegged to gold.

Jet Cash

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A fiat currency is a currency with no asset base behind it. Bitcoin is a crypto medium of echange with a vitual asset backing that has real value. In fact it is the only crypto that has a hard asset value to back it up. I keep tryting to think of a way to create an alternative, but so far i haven't mamaged. Any alternative is likely to be hit by a 51% attack before it got off the ground.

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