When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.
Well, what kind of nonsense are you writing about levying tax (commissions) on transactions in cryptocurrency, as with fiat transactions? As many have already written to you in the answers, then familiarize yourself with how the network functions. Then many technical points and more will become clear to you. Why ask such questions when all the answers have long been given to them? Use the forum search. Start with the beginners section. Everything is there. 
Topic: When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with enforced tax - page 3. (Read 494 times)
August 30, 2023, 02:14:52 AM
August 30, 2023, 12:09:11 AM
When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.
There's no such thing as "free lunch". You'd need to pay a fee for your transaction to go through the Blockchain. Otherwise, the network would be extremely-vulnerable against spam attacks. It would result in higher network congestion to a point where BTC will become unusable. Fees are just a way to protect the network from attackers while supporting the miners. I wouldn't call them an "enforced tax" mechanism, but rather a contribution to the network itself. Everyone benefits in the process. Miners will profit, while you get to enjoy financial freedom.
What's disturbing is how every transaction is visible on the public BTC blockchain. You don't want prying eyes knowing your utmost sensitive info. Fortunately, we have both custodial and non-custodial mixers to use Bitcoin in a private and anonymous way. If that's not enough, you could simply convert BTC to XMR for complete peace of mind. Who knows if BTC becomes a part of our daily life in the future? Just my thoughts
August 28, 2023, 02:24:21 PM
When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.
Actually it's true, there is only one difference: the overall amount of crypto is limited, and after some time (even after reaching 21M) the overall amount will be decreasing due to accounts getting lost continuously. So cryptocurencies are protected from inflation due to overproduction of money. However, they are vulnerable to inflation in a different way: some hodlers can accumulate so much cryptomoney that the amount will be nearly endless in comparison with an average person, so they can become crypto tycoons (just like now we have global banking system: several rich people rule everything). So cryptotycoons will be able to launch inflation if they wish so, in the same way as worlds richest banks and tycoons do it now.
August 28, 2023, 02:14:23 PM
Since we are earning from the crypto community,we can pay some tax to our country.Because our little tax may help the government to create a better scheme for our people.If your country is more poor,you need to contribute some money to the country development.The traders are maximum income tax payers and they need to pay 1% TDS on every trading.The one percent may not seems high,but when the trader made the trade.He also need to pay the exchange fee on every trade.
Totally agreed, We should pay tax as by paying tax the condition of one country might improve as there will be more funds in reserves. The transactions fee of exchanges you are talking about are too less I mean I do not even care about them but the transaction fee on BTC blockchain or ETH blockchain are high and due to this reasons many people avoid using both in there shops or business for payment purposes. And the 1% TDS is really not that much but it do matter when the amount is big. Sometimes ago I read a topic here about India accepted crypto but put huge tax on the users and I think that's also good at least that tax will help people as well as governments in many ways.
August 28, 2023, 04:04:26 AM
When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.
Firstly, you must be able to distinguish between taxes and fees because in the end it will be very different in terms of meaning and function.Do you think transaction fees will ultimately be used by someone to regulate bitcoin to be more accepted like when we pay taxes that are converted to infrastructure?
But in the end providing more understanding will also be useless because it seems that since your account was created your job is only to find loopholes and create an opinion that bitcoin is something bad so in this case I will not argue with you because it is useless.
Never, however, should the foundations be disregarded. No matter how alluring Bitcoin may seem or how compelling the rumors may be, they are not a replacement for a carefully thought-out investment plan. Discipline is just as crucial in bullish times as it is in bearish ones. Dont let skyrocketing prices fool you; plan your getaway instead. In that regard, keeping an eye on various price points and being abreast of market alterations are essential to not passing up chances to make money. Finding the right balance between ambition and caution is crucial.
August 27, 2023, 05:46:25 PM
Bitcoin transaction fee is not an enforced tax.
This is different from the money paid as fee in wire transfer and some other means of fiat payment.
Fiat and bitcoin are completely different. Fiat has no fixed supply, it is centralized, not censorship resistant and it is an inflationary asset which is just the opposite of bitcoin which has limited supply, it is decentralized, censorship resistant and it is a deflationary asset in long term if compared with fiat.
Taxes are mandatory contributions levied on individuals or corporations by a government entity
This is different from the money paid as fee in wire transfer and some other means of fiat payment.
Fiat and bitcoin are completely different. Fiat has no fixed supply, it is centralized, not censorship resistant and it is an inflationary asset which is just the opposite of bitcoin which has limited supply, it is decentralized, censorship resistant and it is a deflationary asset in long term if compared with fiat.
I highly agree and Bitcoin is not a fiat currency since it has no backing of any government since it is not issued by the government and is not even backed by the person who created it although has an open market that dictates it value the reason for its volatility.
Quote
Fiat Money
Fiat money is the money we all know and are familiar with.
The most straightforward definition of this term comes straight from Investopedia: “Fiat money is government-issued currency that is not backed by a physical commodity, such as gold or silver, but rather by the government that issued it. The value of fiat money is derived from the relationship between supply and demand and the stability of the issuing government, rather than the worth of a commodity backing it as is the case for commodity money. Most modern paper currencies are fiat currencies, including the U.S. dollar, the euro, and other major global currencies.”
Fiat money is the money we all know and are familiar with.
The most straightforward definition of this term comes straight from Investopedia: “Fiat money is government-issued currency that is not backed by a physical commodity, such as gold or silver, but rather by the government that issued it. The value of fiat money is derived from the relationship between supply and demand and the stability of the issuing government, rather than the worth of a commodity backing it as is the case for commodity money. Most modern paper currencies are fiat currencies, including the U.S. dollar, the euro, and other major global currencies.”
I believe @OP needs to read this article to know the difference between fiat money and Bitcoin: https://empireflippers.com/bitcoin-and-our-marketplace/
August 27, 2023, 05:29:24 PM
When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.
Firstly, you must be able to distinguish between taxes and fees because in the end it will be very different in terms of meaning and function.Do you think transaction fees will ultimately be used by someone to regulate bitcoin to be more accepted like when we pay taxes that are converted to infrastructure?
But in the end providing more understanding will also be useless because it seems that since your account was created your job is only to find loopholes and create an opinion that bitcoin is something bad so in this case I will not argue with you because it is useless.
August 27, 2023, 04:33:37 PM
Then what's wrong with paying tax on the crypto we have instead, just like in fiat or any other investment on which we have to pay annually or any time-specific tax, but on crypto or BTC we only have to pay tax at the time of deposit and withdrawal, and that's for only that time when one is making transactions?
Many people are still facing the issue of tax and want to save themselves from huge taxes. That is something everyone wants to save themselves from, but think for a second: those who have huge amounts of Bitcoin will pay tax for it. I do not think that's why, somewhere in the world, they have resources too. They will keep that territory under their control and will not legalize crypto there for the sake of tax, and besides Canada, there are many other countries in the world where people do not have to pay tax on their transactions.
Many people are still facing the issue of tax and want to save themselves from huge taxes. That is something everyone wants to save themselves from, but think for a second: those who have huge amounts of Bitcoin will pay tax for it. I do not think that's why, somewhere in the world, they have resources too. They will keep that territory under their control and will not legalize crypto there for the sake of tax, and besides Canada, there are many other countries in the world where people do not have to pay tax on their transactions.
Since we are earning from the crypto community,we can pay some tax to our country.Because our little tax may help the government to create a better scheme for our people.If your country is more poor,you need to contribute some money to the country development.The traders are maximum income tax payers and they need to pay 1% TDS on every trading.The one percent may not seems high,but when the trader made the trade.He also need to pay the exchange fee on every trade.
August 27, 2023, 03:58:36 PM
Then what's wrong with paying tax on the crypto we have instead, just like in fiat or any other investment on which we have to pay annually or any time-specific tax, but on crypto or BTC we only have to pay tax at the time of deposit and withdrawal, and that's for only that time when one is making transactions?
Many people are still facing the issue of tax and want to save themselves from huge taxes. That is something everyone wants to save themselves from, but think for a second: those who have huge amounts of Bitcoin will pay tax for it. I do not think that's why, somewhere in the world, they have resources too. They will keep that territory under their control and will not legalize crypto there for the sake of tax, and besides Canada, there are many other countries in the world where people do not have to pay tax on their transactions.
Many people are still facing the issue of tax and want to save themselves from huge taxes. That is something everyone wants to save themselves from, but think for a second: those who have huge amounts of Bitcoin will pay tax for it. I do not think that's why, somewhere in the world, they have resources too. They will keep that territory under their control and will not legalize crypto there for the sake of tax, and besides Canada, there are many other countries in the world where people do not have to pay tax on their transactions.
August 27, 2023, 03:48:22 PM
Bitcoin is digital money firstly before even considering it as fiat which expressly sums up to legal tender of a country. What distinguishes BTC from a countries fiat is that it is a universal currency. Irrespective of the country one is in or region they are from, BTC is BTC and the network fee is same as long as an exchange or P2P system is used to process payments and trade.
It is clear also that any financial processor one uses to facilitate any transactions nowadays is charged or taxed, be it for fiat or BTC a fee is always paid to complete the transaction.
The control one also has over their BTC is not same as compared to fiat wherein every transaction details and reference is just there for anyone to see. The anonymity is the catch, except for these days where regulators are changing the decentralized game to a more centralized one inorder to have better control over it.
It is clear also that any financial processor one uses to facilitate any transactions nowadays is charged or taxed, be it for fiat or BTC a fee is always paid to complete the transaction.
The control one also has over their BTC is not same as compared to fiat wherein every transaction details and reference is just there for anyone to see. The anonymity is the catch, except for these days where regulators are changing the decentralized game to a more centralized one inorder to have better control over it.
August 27, 2023, 11:29:30 AM
In many cases, network fees do not exceed 10% of the transaction value, and if you know more details about how Bitcoin works, you will always pay low fees on average. Taxes vary from one country to another, but in general, the tax is applied only to transactions in which profits were made, such as buying 1 Bitcoin at a price of $26,000 and selling it at a value of $26,000,000.
If you make a loss, you don't have to pay tax.
So, in all cases, given the historical data of Bitcoin, a loss is rarely achieved if Bitcoin is considered a long-term investment with a length of more than the average of 5 years.
If you make a loss, you don't have to pay tax.
So, in all cases, given the historical data of Bitcoin, a loss is rarely achieved if Bitcoin is considered a long-term investment with a length of more than the average of 5 years.
August 27, 2023, 09:45:42 AM
When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.
Bitcoin has limited supply and most importantly its decentralized unlike Fiat that has unlimited supply and government has full control over it. Bitcoin in general doesn’t work like you are suggesting. The government is just controlling the people to treat as fiat but Bitcoin itself doesn’t have tax and network fee is just a transaction fee.
Bitcoin is far better than Fiat because it doesn’t have inflation due to its limited supply.
August 27, 2023, 09:39:19 AM
When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.
When you pay the network fee where does it go? It goes to the miners and who are the miners? Well as far as I know they are not the government so I think we can safely say that we are not paying the taxes. Now if you are trading Bitcoin on an exchanger that has done your KYC and they are sharing your financial records with the authority and if you are asked to pay the taxes on that “income” then that’s actual tax on your crypto mate.
As long as you are in the peer to peer economy I hardly think that it’s gonna be a tax issue. Simpel nobody know a you have bitcoin if you don’t go through any KYC channel.
August 27, 2023, 08:34:55 AM
-snip-
OP lacks an understanding of the difference between tax and fees and that's why he can ignorantly come up with this type of information about bitcoin. He needs to go back to the drawing board and strategize more and more because this just propaganda didn't hit as he had expected but a failed mission to mislead newbies about bitcoin and fiat difference.Apart from all other explanations established by members about why the fees are attached to bitcoin mining and transactions, we call all attest that factors like inflation , centrality and control by government that's known to fiat are not associated with bitcoin.
Apart from not understanding the OP in terms of the difference in bitcoin fees and taxes, Governments can benefit from transactions in bitcoin and other crypto assets traded by exchanges that are located and operate in certain country licensing areas. The exchange belongs to a private company and of course there is an obligation for the company to pay taxes with the terms and conditions that have been decided.
Of course a legal exchange that can operate even if the country defines crypto as a commodity asset like in my country.
Because investors or traders in countries that do not legalize crypto as a legal means of payment must convert it into fiat.
This may be of use to the OP and I won't continue this discussion unless there is something interesting to discuss.
August 27, 2023, 07:55:38 AM
When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee.
Taxes with fees are different by definition.It's probably only now that we're hearing bitcoins are just fiat with taxes imposed after you leave those opinions here.
Taxes are paid to the state by citizens who are domiciled in that country. There are taxes that are mandatory, personal, income tax like me living in Indonesia. Tax paid by citizens to because they have used state facilities.
Bitcoin in transactions and mining are not taxes, they are called fees.
Apart from all other explanations established by members about why the fees are attached to bitcoin mining and transactions, we call all attest that factors like inflation , centrality and control by government that's known to fiat are not associated with bitcoin.
August 27, 2023, 07:25:54 AM
People have been killed for it and tortured (sure this happens with fiat but the blood is on your hands now).
Do not expect a sensible argument from someone who types this as a negative of Bitcoin.And do not feed the troll, just add the user to your ignore list.
- Jay -
August 27, 2023, 07:22:02 AM
You got it all wrong, and not just a little bit; like, REALLY wrong. First of all, calling Bitcoin fiat is like calling the internet a fad; they're both game-changers, but not in the way you're thinking! Fiat currency is backed by the government, and guess what? Governments can print as much of it as they like. Bitcoin, on the other hand, has a cap. There will only be 21 million Bitcoins, ever. It's scarcity at its finest.
And taxes? Taxes are a societal construct to support infrastructure, welfare, etc. Network fees? Those are part of the blockchain protocol to incentivize miners to keep the system going. They're not the same, buddy. And when it comes to extra taxes for legalization? That’s like saying I shouldn't use my credit card because of transaction fees. Come on, get real.
And taxes? Taxes are a societal construct to support infrastructure, welfare, etc. Network fees? Those are part of the blockchain protocol to incentivize miners to keep the system going. They're not the same, buddy. And when it comes to extra taxes for legalization? That’s like saying I shouldn't use my credit card because of transaction fees. Come on, get real.
August 27, 2023, 06:56:02 AM
When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee.
Taxes with fees are different by definition.It's probably only now that we're hearing bitcoins are just fiat with taxes imposed after you leave those opinions here.
Taxes are paid to the state by citizens who are domiciled in that country. There are taxes that are mandatory, personal, income tax like me living in Indonesia. Tax paid by citizens to because they have used state facilities.
Bitcoin in transactions and mining are not taxes, they are called fees.
Maybe you have other intentions that you want to know by making this topic. Please write clearly so you can get the appropriate answer.
August 27, 2023, 06:34:47 AM
When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.
Be frank, did you try to google 'Why does bitcoin fees exist"? I bet you haven't even done any research to answer your question angrily opened thread here. Bitcoin uses the Proof Of Work consensus mechanism to generate bitcoins. On average, one block is generated every ten minutes and this one block is capable to include 3500 transactions (more or less). If there was no transaction fee, one would be able to create millions of transactions with 0 fee and clog the mempool. In order to prevent that, transaction fees were implemented in Bitcoin ecosystem. Also, what's the fair way to prioritize transactions? The higher fee you pay, the quickly your transaction will get processed. And with the help of Lighting Network and some other changes, things will settle down in near future and fees will remain low. 
August 27, 2023, 06:07:44 AM
The fees you pay in Bitcoin are not the taxes you give to the state. It's different. The fee you pay from a Bitcoin transaction is a service fee for the network to keep operating.
But when you use Bitcoin on an exchange, the government can request financial statements from the exchange, and then the government determines how much tax you have to pay. Or you submit a report of the exchange to the government so that the government can determine the range of taxes you must pay.
I don't know what happened in Canada so you have to pay network fees and taxes. You could tell in more detail about what happened there so there is no misunderstanding.
But when you use Bitcoin on an exchange, the government can request financial statements from the exchange, and then the government determines how much tax you have to pay. Or you submit a report of the exchange to the government so that the government can determine the range of taxes you must pay.
I don't know what happened in Canada so you have to pay network fees and taxes. You could tell in more detail about what happened there so there is no misunderstanding.
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