Topic: Which hardware wallet to buy? - page 5. (Read 1391 times)

Bloody hell so much to worry about isn't there 

So it is not recommended to buy from the official ledger site sending directly to my home address?

The safest option (if available to you) would be to buy a hardware wallet directly for cash at a physical store. I suggest you check your local stores that sell electronic/IT equipment, because they usually sell such devices (at least that is the case in my country). Another option is to rent a PO box at your local post office or use one of the virtual PO box services so that Ledger does not get your personal information - for complete privacy pay with Bitcoin that is not associated with your name (coin mix).

Do you not still need to register a name and address alongside a payment method matched to that name and address to open an Amazon account though? If that's the case, then even if you deliver to a pick up point, there will still be a record of you buying a hardware wallet against your real name and address.

The safest way to order a hardware wallet is to use their own web shop, and have it posted to a PO box or other drop off location under a pseudonym, therefore completely breaking the link between your real name and address and your purchase. Very few people do this, though.

Amazon is a good option as one can choose the delivery to the pick-up point. Recently I have created the fresh Amazon account which is not associated with my old one and  got the latest ledger nano s+ at Amazon pick-up point chosen by me.

That is until the next Amazon breach happens that might involve hardware wallet customers, crypto companies, or other businesses of interest. Amazon has had their share of inglorious leaks as well. Check this out, for example. Centralized data storage providers are always going to be a threat. Inside jobs are also frequent because some employee somewhere saw a chance to cash in on customer data or he is simple dissatisfied with his job/life/the world, etc. and wants to see everything burn. Or his lack of knowledge and judgement can trick him into infecting his work computers with malware or getting social engineered as n0nce mentioned.     

I was about to bring this up.. Amazon may be better for privacy, but you could get a counterfeit wallet with pregenerated seed.

As Pmalek correctly stated, the risks of having someone attempt a physical attack on your hardware wallet are relatively slim. That's one of the benefits of getting them in the first place, instead of using a software wallet; attacks for the most part need physical access.
But on the other hand, for me that means that a data leak of whatever you give them during the ordering process might actually be the higher risk.

For example, Trezor used mailchimp so they had no control over what was going on and apparently mailchimp employees were 'social engineered' by attackers to get their hands on that data [1]. I do believe that this information wasn't public before the incident, but it would be commendable if such companies would put more effort in data privacy and also their own company's 'sovereignty' if they try to be a Bitcoin business.

[1] https://blog.trezor.io/details-of-the-mailchimp-data-breach-a06872caa1fd

Lol, that's a loaded question!  Save £10, and risk a supply chain attack, or spend £10 and risk Ledger leaking your personal info?  Tough call.

I think you probably made the right choice of going with the Ledger seeing as how you're into alt-coins.  I personally have been a bitcoin maximalist since about 6 months into my foray into the crypto sphere, so when a friend or family ask me to recommend a hardware wallet, I point them to the Trezor.  The Trezor model T has more alt compatibility, but is far too expensive these days, in my opinion.  The Treazor One is arguably the most practical hardware wallet on the market today.

Lots of people will give the advice to only buy directly from the Ledger website, but as long as you are buying from the official Ledger store on Amazon and not some third party reseller you should be equally as safe. The easiest way to do this is to follow the link for your country from their official website as listed near the bottom of this page: https://www.ledger.com/reseller

There is a theoretical risk that there will be more people in the supply chain who will have their hands on the hardware device before it reaches you. Instead of going Ledger -> carrier -> you, it will go Ledger -> carrier -> Amazon -> carrier -> you. However, there are steps to follow when you first get your device (regardless of where you buy it from) to confirm its authenticity and that it hasn't been tampered with: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/4404389367057-Is-my-Ledger-device-genuine

Ironically, despite most people saying you should only order directly from Ledger, the people who did order from Amazon in the past were protected against the data breach which was discussed previously in this thread, since the data breach only affected the database of Ledger's own web shop, with all their Amazon customers' data being stored with Amazon instead.

Think I am going to just go with the Nano S plus - looks like a solid and popular pick and will hold the majority of my crypto.

I just feel I need to get my crypto off of these exchanges, I don't mind leaving one or two on the exchanges as long as the majority are secure on a cold wallet. 

Is it safe to buy on Amazon or for the sake of £10 more just buy through the actual site?

There are other less significant differences like the connector type. The Nano S Plus is equipped with a USB Type-C, while the old Nano S uses USB Type Micro-B. Another more important element could be the chip depending on if there is a vulnerability with the older models or one will be discovered in the future.

Nano S uses ST31H320 as secure element and STM32F042.
Nano S Plus uses the ST33K1M5.

https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-nano-s
https://shop.ledger.com/products/ledger-nano-s-plus 

No matter what you go for, there will always be negative comments and bad feedback about it. Not just for your choice of hardware wallets. Weigh up your options and consider how those comments affect you personally.

For example:
Has Ledger caused privacy leaks for its users? YES.
Has Trezor caused privacy leeks for its users? YES
Have Ledger or Trezor users lost their crypto because of bad design of their wallets? NO
Can the wallets be hacked remotely? NO (for now).
Can seeds, PINs, or private keys be extracted by having physical access to the device? Possibly, YES. If the person knows that they are doing.
Can you and me do it by watching a YouTube video? NO.
Which one is more vulnerable to physical manipulation between the two? Trezor because they don't have a secure element. Some would say Ledger is equally vulnerable due to its close-source nature and I would agree there is a danger in not knowing what is going on.

If you want to see which hardware wallets members of Bitcointalk own, you can take a look at Show off your hardware wallet. Ledger dominates the table followed by Trezor.

Sounds like a plan! Honestly; if you really wish, you could also get a multi-coin wallet like Ledger or (in my opinion better quality and more modern; plus easier to use through the ability for microSD backups) BitBox02. And then later get a Bitcoin-only, more premium device & transfer the funds.

In a way; separating coins on 2 devices is also a type of 'diversification' (of risk; e.g. risk of theft or loss). I have high hopes (and expectations) for Foundation Passport v2, but can't recommend it yet, since I haven't had it in my hands so far.

I don't want to get too much into this topic here; but just a little recommendation to the 'diversification fans': do some more research on what diversification means. Basically you don't want all your eggs in one basket; sure - however if you 'diversify' by investing in different cryptocurrencies, which are proven to depend a lot on what Bitcoin's doing, that's not a great idea. You could invest in Bitcoin, a stock, a metal, you know, very 'diverse' things that are as probable as possible not to be affected simultaneously (up or down).

Of course, you should consider it as soon as possible because there's no better reason you want to safely hold your bitcoin if they're still on an exchange. What's more, if you have decided to use a Ledger wallet, then go for it. Some users will be ready to help you based on their experience so far.

Most people including myself also like asset diversification, which is great. But I will not own more than 50% of the total capital I have. 50% for bitcoin and another 50% might be good for some potential altcoin but only between 1-3 altcoin.

Yes makes sense I am with you.

Now that Bitcoin is in this price range I want to focus on it and accumulate more and less on altcoins.

I will keep researching but yes now I realize the main thing for me is focusing on Bitcoin and storing it safely by getting it off Coinbase.

Another point to consider: self-custody can be accomplished without buying a hardware device.
The coins will already be much safer and 'actually yours' if you withdraw them to a trusted, secure software wallet whose seed you properly backed up.

If you want to hold relatively small amounts of some altcoin / shitcoin semi-long term (basically trading; so do consider reading: Here Is What Can Happen If You Want to Trade Cryptocurrencies, but You Don’t Know How), you can do so on your phone or computer, as long as you follow basic security practice.

Most people who believe in 'crypto diversification' usually put at least 50% in Bitcoin anyway; so I'd probably setup cold storage and / or get a decent quality hardware wallet for Bitcoin, leave the most volatile shit on the exchange to sell it as soon as it 'moons' and withdraw everything in between to a software wallet.
I wouldn't want to make a compromise in the quality, privacy and security of the device that stores my BTC (usually majority of people's crypto investment), to be able to also store $50 of a few shitcoins on it, too. Does it make sense?

I have been a Ledger user for years and I have no complaints about the security of the device itself, but due to the hacking of the Ledger user database and the publication of hundreds of thousands of data including full name, address and phone numbers, I no longer consider them a company to trust. Does that mean I trust the Trezor more? Of course, not because they also have their security vulnerabilities in the devices themselves, but also because part of their database (allegedly only e-mails) has been hacked.

If you are looking for something perfect then I have to disappoint you that such a thing does not exist - but if you want the greatest possible security then a properly made cold wallet really has no alternative. All you need is an additional device (computer) that will not have any contact with the Internet and the fact that you have to get used to such a setup.

Here is an example of such a setup using Electrum -> Coldstorage

Special note : it is recommended to verify Electrum files before installation. -> How to Safely Download and Verify Electrum

Was all set on going for a ledger then a few negative comments takes me back to square one again.

I don't mind paying good money but don't want a wallet that is going to cause headaches & problems.

Keeping bitcoin on hardware wallet is a good, safe, and convenient choice. Millions of people around the world use this method and don't complain, because so far there have been no incidents with the theft of crypto from hardware wallets. If a new and better way of storing crypto comes along, you can always change your storage. Therefore, it seems to me that the question is not whether to use the hardware wallet, but which hardware wallet to use.

Regarding altcoins. It seems to me that it would be better to get rid of most of them, completely, because it will finally depreciate in the current bear market, but whether they will rise in price later is already in question.

The answer is still going to be a hardware wallet, short of setting up your own cold storage device (which sounds like something you are probably not ready for yet).

If it were me, I would sell all those shitcoins for bitcoin and then just put the bitcoin on any good hardware wallet.

But, if those are the coins you want to hold, then just get a Ledger Nano of some description since it will support the majority of those coins. They are all as secure as each other. If you need Bluetooth for on the go transacting when paired to your phone, get the X. If you don't need that, get the S or S Plus. The only real difference between the S and S Plus is the screen size and how many apps you can have installed at once, but it takes literally 20 seconds to uninstall one coin's app and install a different coin's app (with no effect whatsoever on your coins themself), so up to you whether that small convenience is worth the extra price.

Once you've got your device, head to https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/categories/4404376139409, click on the device you bought, and follow the set up guide.

After 3 pages of tips and suggestions that you received, you ask practically the same question as when you opened this thread? You don't seem to realize that the only real and correct way to keep your coins is in a way that only you are in possession of your private keys. It's up to you to decide which hardware wallet to buy or whether to make a cold wallet - because no matter how you set things up, the worst decision is to keep your coins on crypto exchanges, there's not too much wisdom.

Now that I have began investing in Bitcoin and plan to do so for many years, is it best if I just find a hardware wallet to store my Bitcoin on and leave the altcoins on the exchanges then?

What is the most convenient but still safe way of storing my Bitcoin?