who actually moves the price of bitcoin?

TheGreatPython

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Quote from: New.in.trading on January 11, 2021, 04:11:56 AM

One more thing, ppl should really not forget are the BTCUSD Futures. Banks are interested, in pushing BTC price down, as they are the ones with the biggest harm if a decentralized money system would take over the world, right? So in Dec 2017 the banks came up with BTC Futures and shorted them like hell... what happened? right, 2018 happened Cheesy

over time, the banks closed their shorts, which equals in "buying" the futures contract. So I would be careful with buys right now, and wait if the banks who have nearly infinitive money at hand, are trying to short BTC futures again, and this way makes many ppl. sell their BTC as well, what would only accelerate a possible BTC drop. I am not saying this is what is going to happen, but it certainly is a possibility.

So Banks and their Future Contracts have a big interest in moving BTC as well.

I wouldn't really say that banks would want bitcoin to fail, mainly because banks are getting involved as well. Think of it this way, if they try to make it go down, they will have to work hard on it, and since governments are already taxing and allowing bitcoin, that kind of means we are not really in a bad situation neither in public usage, so it would be a very big task for banks to stop it.

However if banks decide that instead of fighting it, if they decide to use it and make more money with it, they could use it in a bad sense. Obviously banks main purpose is to make money, and how can they make money? They could simply just buy bitcoin and wait? They will not do that, they will definitely do a whole "buy bitcoin" thing and you buy bitcoin from them, but then they will package a 1000 bitcoin deal together and sell that too, and then have 100 packages of the 1000 packages and sell that too, basically they will make money from bitcoin going up or down, doesn't matter.

Miaallen

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I believe the big price determinants are the whales. Since the blockchain network technology is a unique one, it senses the transactions from all the major exchanges to update and moderate the effects on the market to determine what the price is. This is not limited to only Bitcoin but all the major cryptocurrencies. That's why we usually have price of a certain major cryptocurrency in the same ranges of price with a little difference.

john_nautica

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Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

Most bitcoin prices are tied to an average or a collection of what the top exchanges publish as the current bitcoin price. But who's actually moving their prices? From my understanding, retail users don't have the power to move prices in the short term. Whales supposedly are the ones who can make the price suddenly jump or drop...but they trade on OTC desks right? not on retail exchanges....so how are these Whale movements being reflected on retail exchanges to determine what the current bitcoin price is? Or are there actually some whales who use the exchanges to trade on?

If you are going to check how the market works or the crypto currencies prices works. Their prices will vary to the buyer or holder, meaning if the demand will grow then the price will also increase.

So the direct answer to your question, the one who actually move the price of bitcoin and other crypto currencies are us who are buying it but those big whales or big investors have the control as they have the bigger percentage of holding compare to us who only have a very few percentage of holding base on our current investment.

begau

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Quote from: ?? on ??

the interesting question is, who moves and sells a lot of bitcoin in the market? of course whales and some institutions that hold bitcoin, we know that this is trading, and everyone wants to make a profit, even institutions buy millions of dollars in bitcoin, and of course this makes the bitcoin market even more crowded.

Whales and some institutions are only part of the story, we are all involved in it. Market capitalization is over 700 billion dollars, whales want to control is not simple, I agree with a few opinions, demand is still the deciding factor.

Joyawan13

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elysian.finance

Quote from: 1l1l11ll1l on January 12, 2021, 08:00:50 AM

Quote from: Chrystora123 on January 12, 2021, 06:47:29 AM

Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

snip..

Bitcoin is not much different from investment products that are already circulating in the world, the cause of the price rising or falling is of course due to market demand. Bitcoin price may not go up and down because of the role of 1 person, the conclusion that drives the price of Bitcoin is all of us (buyers, HODLers, and sellers of Bitcoin)..

Btw, no one can control the market. You're right, that the key is demand. when demand increases, there is an increase in a positive trend, which means that the desire to buy bitcoin increases. this is what makes prices go up, in theory. In some cases, bitcoin price can be affected because a large number of BTC holders move their wallets, but I'm not really sure about that

indeed it is impossible for one or several people to move the price from bitcoin to a very high price level, this increase in bitcoin price is of course more and more people who want to buy and of course want to invest in it, because in the future more and more people believe that bitcoin can be used as alternative. someone invests and saves for a long time, the more demand and purchase of bitcoin, of course bitcoin will increase at a higher price, even if there will be a decline, of course some people want to sell some of their bitcoin assets at price when rises like now.

1l1l11ll1l

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Quote from: Chrystora123 on January 12, 2021, 06:47:29 AM

Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

snip..

Bitcoin is not much different from investment products that are already circulating in the world, the cause of the price rising or falling is of course due to market demand. Bitcoin price may not go up and down because of the role of 1 person, the conclusion that drives the price of Bitcoin is all of us (buyers, HODLers, and sellers of Bitcoin)..

Btw, no one can control the market. You're right, that the key is demand. when demand increases, there is an increase in a positive trend, which means that the desire to buy bitcoin increases. this is what makes prices go up, in theory. In some cases, bitcoin price can be affected because a large number of BTC holders move their wallets, but I'm not really sure about that

Chrystora123

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Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

snip..

Bitcoin is not much different from investment products that are already circulating in the world, the cause of the price rising or falling is of course due to market demand. Bitcoin price may not go up and down because of the role of 1 person, the conclusion that drives the price of Bitcoin is all of us (buyers, HODLers, and sellers of Bitcoin)..

kram31

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Quote from: Janation on January 03, 2021, 06:15:39 AM

Quote from: gamer4156 on January 03, 2021, 02:44:43 AM

These whales consistently win in exchanging here in digital currency, its the truth things happened that We can't deny, at that point for the normal dealers like me I can't resemble as long as I don't have a ton of cash. The more the market requests something, the higher its cost goes. A basic model here would be something like an Auction.

They hold the most but I don't think they actually "win" consistently.

Right now most of the corporations or companies hold a huge number of Bitcoin and that might be the reason why the price is still increasing right now. We are not whales, not all of us but they are not the one that actually moves the price all the time. The demand push the value and with the price so high right now, means that the demand is on the roof.

That is why all rich people who are involved in Bitcoin are the one's who is blessed so much. But if you are just an ordinary trader just like me, it would be difficult for us to have a huge amount of Bitcoin. So, this whaler or investors are the one who is responsible for the motion for what is happening now in the price value in the market.

New.in.trading

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One more thing, ppl should really not forget are the BTCUSD Futures. Banks are interested, in pushing BTC price down, as they are the ones with the biggest harm if a decentralized money system would take over the world, right? So in Dec 2017 the banks came up with BTC Futures and shorted them like hell... what happened? right, 2018 happened Cheesy

over time, the banks closed their shorts, which equals in "buying" the futures contract. So I would be careful with buys right now, and wait if the banks who have nearly infinitive money at hand, are trying to short BTC futures again, and this way makes many ppl. sell their BTC as well, what would only accelerate a possible BTC drop. I am not saying this is what is going to happen, but it certainly is a possibility.

So Banks and their Future Contracts have a big interest in moving BTC as well.

imstillthebest

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Quote from: iv4n on January 06, 2021, 02:48:26 AM

Quote from: zanezane on January 06, 2021, 02:30:09 AM

Quote from: jerry0 on January 06, 2021, 12:15:39 AM

Is there a way to know who is buying the btc/selling it right now when looking at an exchange?

Knowing who buys and sells BTCitcoin at the moment will defeat the purpose of blockchain in the first place, which is to hide your identity with each transactions.

There's no way to see who is buying/selling, with high buy/sell orders we can assume that someone rich is behind, it can be an ordinary bitcoiner, or some institution...but whom it is it's not so important, what's important is the order!

how can we explain those charts with the name of indivduals and companies that owns a number of btc .
how they write that if knowing who sells and buy btc is not doable .
sometimes we will hear a news that coinbase , a hacker moves large fund on exchangers , how they know that too ,
whales or anyone can sell outside the exchangers but that all are counted on the law of supply and demand . depending on the volumes , the price can go down or go up .

yohananaomi

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Quote from: DarkDays on January 06, 2021, 08:44:37 AM

Quote from: fauzan123 on January 03, 2021, 06:34:12 AM

Quote from: BALIK on December 05, 2020, 07:59:57 PM

Prices are not moved by individuals, unless they're big time whales. Any market price is moved by supply and demand. The shorter the supply and the higher the demand the more pricey it gets to purchase a coin. The opposite is true, of course. Simple economics!

Bankers or big investors are indeed one of the triggers that can move prices, but I think that only a few people can do it.

Exactly, the amount of BTC you need to move the large walls cannot be done by individuals alone. Only a few of us have enough buying power to shift things along.
This leaves big corporations and investors alike that can afford to make these large drops. Every one else is left at their mercy...

That's right, friend, obviously there will be no individual ability to do that without being supported or done together, at least if doing it yourself is a big trader. Of course there are not many big traders at this time but it really affects what will happen to Bitcoin, especially if they work simultaneously, it must be very pronounced.

it is not easy with already high prices to do something without any cooperation or indeed being done by a large trader. it is very clear that only a few people who may currently have bitcoin reserves. Especially with the recent pandemic, it is clear that it has also affected those who have bitcoin to release because needs are a priority.

DarkDays

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Quote from: fauzan123 on January 03, 2021, 06:34:12 AM

Quote from: BALIK on December 05, 2020, 07:59:57 PM

Prices are not moved by individuals, unless they're big time whales. Any market price is moved by supply and demand. The shorter the supply and the higher the demand the more pricey it gets to purchase a coin. The opposite is true, of course. Simple economics!

Bankers or big investors are indeed one of the triggers that can move prices, but I think that only a few people can do it.

Exactly, the amount of BTC you need to move the large walls cannot be done by individuals alone. Only a few of us have enough buying power to shift things along.
This leaves big corporations and investors alike that can afford to make these large drops. Every one else is left at their mercy...

iv4n

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Quote from: zanezane on January 06, 2021, 02:30:09 AM

Quote from: jerry0 on January 06, 2021, 12:15:39 AM

Is there a way to know who is buying the btc/selling it right now when looking at an exchange? Like if someone is offering or wanting to buy a lot of btc... think hundreds or more... you got to assume that is some wealthy or rich person right? And in the thousands... would obviously be institutions?

Knowing who buys and sells BTCitcoin at the moment will defeat the purpose of blockchain in the first place, which is to hide your identity with each transactions. The only exception is that if that person voluntarily revealed his/her identity.

To answer the question in the title, in my opinion, the price movement is a mixture of supply and demand, and unknown. As the supply decreases (amount of BTCitcoin in the market), the demand increases(the price of BTCitcoin) or vice versa. The unknown is best explained by a quote in the movie Wolf of Wall Street, "Nobody knows when the prices go up, down or side ways"

There's no way to see who is buying/selling, with high buy/sell orders we can assume that someone rich is behind, it can be an ordinary bitcoiner, or some institution...but whom it is it's not so important, what's important is the order!
I agree that some people like anonymity (for all sort of reasons), who likes it more will use Monero, or some other privacy coin, not Bitcoin.
Nobody stops anyone to place any buy/sell order at any price. So actually all traders contribute, of course, the higher amounts make higher waves! So by checking buy/sell orders you can try to predict the size of the next wave and of course the direction of that wave!

zanezane

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Quote from: jerry0 on January 06, 2021, 12:15:39 AM

Is there a way to know who is buying the btc/selling it right now when looking at an exchange? Like if someone is offering or wanting to buy a lot of btc... think hundreds or more... you got to assume that is some wealthy or rich person right? And in the thousands... would obviously be institutions?

Knowing who buys and sells BTCitcoin at the moment will defeat the purpose of blockchain in the first place, which is to hide your identity with each transactions. The only exception is that if that person voluntarily revealed his/her identity.

To answer the question in the title, in my opinion, the price movement is a mixture of supply and demand, and unknown. As the supply decreases (amount of BTCitcoin in the market), the demand increases(the price of BTCitcoin) or vice versa. The unknown is best explained by a quote in the movie Wolf of Wall Street, "Nobody knows when the prices go up, down or side ways"

Janation

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Quote from: jerry0 on January 06, 2021, 12:15:39 AM

Is there a way to know who is buying the btc/selling it right now when looking at an exchange? Like if someone is offering or wanting to buy a lot of btc... think hundreds or more... you got to assume that is some wealthy or rich person right? And in the thousands... would obviously be institutions?

I don't know if there is an exchange like that.

If you want to check wallets with thousands and thousands of Bitcoins, go to Blockchain.info and check the transactions that are happening there. You don't know, you might be able to spot a wallet with thousands of Bitcoin in it. There are individuals that hold thousands of Bitcoin, not just institutions or companies. As far as I know, most of them are the early investors.

jerry0

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Is there a way to know who is buying the btc/selling it right now when looking at an exchange? Like if someone is offering or wanting to buy a lot of btc... think hundreds or more... you got to assume that is some wealthy or rich person right? And in the thousands... would obviously be institutions?

cryptolord2077

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Personally, I don’t believe that Bitcoin moves naturally. Unless one can agree that the GrayScale fund contributed to the movement of bitcoin from $ 22,000 and up.
But what contributed to the move to the 22k level? Especially considering the fact that bitcoin was moving up at rather small volumes.

Wipeout2097

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Exactly, In brief the rules of request and supply. Whales, educate, and us the typical buyers might actually have an affect on the cost development of Bitcoin.Whales do truly make exceptional changes within the showcase, on the off chance that they dump their property anticipate that there will be the next supply implies Bitcoin will drop and tight clamp versa on the off chance that they get, they are more likely the biggest manipulators taken after by teach or enormous organization and after that us the donors.

gamer41566

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Quote from: gamer4156 on January 03, 2021, 02:44:43 AM

These whales consistently win in exchanging here in digital currency, its the truth things happened that We can't deny, at that point for the normal dealers like me I can't resemble as long as I don't have a ton of cash. The more the market requests something, the higher its cost goes. A basic model here would be something like an Auction.

Hey can I please have my bitcointalk account back. Thanks!

fauzan123

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Quote from: BALIK on December 05, 2020, 07:59:57 PM

Prices are not moved by individuals, unless they're big time whales. Any market price is moved by supply and demand. The shorter the supply and the higher the demand the more pricey it gets to purchase a coin. The opposite is true, of course. Simple economics!

Bankers or big investors are indeed one of the triggers that can move prices, but I think that only a few people can do it.

Of course the majority of price movements are due to supply and demand so that prices will continue to move according to the determined supply and demand, that's where traders can analyze using indicators or candlesticks that are their references.

Topic: who actually moves the price of bitcoin? (Read 1848 times)