who actually moves the price of bitcoin? - page 2.

Janation

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Quote from: gamer4156 on January 03, 2021, 01:44:43 AM

These whales consistently win in exchanging here in digital currency, its the truth things happened that We can't deny, at that point for the normal dealers like me I can't resemble as long as I don't have a ton of cash. The more the market requests something, the higher its cost goes. A basic model here would be something like an Auction.

They hold the most but I don't think they actually "win" consistently.

Right now most of the corporations or companies hold a huge number of Bitcoin and that might be the reason why the price is still increasing right now. We are not whales, not all of us but they are not the one that actually moves the price all the time. The demand push the value and with the price so high right now, means that the demand is on the roof.

gamer4156

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These whales consistently win in exchanging here in digital currency, its the truth things happened that We can't deny, at that point for the normal dealers like me I can't resemble as long as I don't have a ton of cash. The more the market requests something, the higher its cost goes. A basic model here would be something like an Auction.

fullhdpixel

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Quote from: Botnake on January 01, 2021, 05:32:40 AM

Quote from: Issa56 on December 31, 2020, 04:50:24 PM

From what I know I think Bitcoin price is always pump by whales or investors and I think the current bullrun might be cause as a result of more investor trying to invest in bitcoin!!!

Whales does not pump bitcoin always, in fact there are only few scenario where we see bitcoin pump compared to dump, but I'm glad we have survive and now this pump bring bitcoin to its ATH. Now, if you'll ask me what's next, I think dump is inevitable.

I have always considered it more about the whales impact and not direct. I think when whales sell or buy that doesn't change the price all that much itself, but when they do it and others see or hear about it the impact becomes bigger. If a whale ends up buying 1 billion dollars worth of bitcoin OTC from some other one, the price will not change, it all depends on how much the market and public knows about it.

If public knows about all the big deals, they will definitely make a big case out of it and change the price as well, but when public is unaware of what is going on, they are not going to react and price will be stuck the same. It doesn't matter how much money is moving, it could be a billion dollars, it could be 100 million dollars it all depends on how much public knows. You could buy 1 billion dollars secretly without moving the price at all, or you could buy 100 million dollars worth and make it public and make the price increase.

Botnake

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Quote from: Issa56 on December 31, 2020, 04:50:24 PM

From what I know I think Bitcoin price is always pump by whales or investors and I think the current bullrun might be cause as a result of more investor trying to invest in bitcoin!!!

Whales does not pump bitcoin always, in fact there are only few scenario where we see bitcoin pump compared to dump, but I'm glad we have survive and now this pump bring bitcoin to its ATH. Now, if you'll ask me what's next, I think dump is inevitable.

Issa56

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From what I know I think Bitcoin price is always pump by whales or investors and I think the current bullrun might be cause as a result of more investor trying to invest in bitcoin!!!

Quidat

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Quote from: MCobian on December 30, 2020, 05:27:23 PM

The simple answer is indeed supply and demand that drives the price of Bitcoin, but in order for the Bitcoin price to be controlled its movements
require a lot of money to do this. Therefore if a large company buys Bitcoin in large quantities it can make the Bitcoin price rise, and similarly if
there is a large company that has a large amount of Bitcoin and then sells all the Bitcoin it has, the price of Bitcoin can fall. So price manipulation
can occur and often occurs from whales who do have a lot of money, so the price of Bitcoin can be controlled by whales.

Manipulation isnt something new for it to happen because it is evidently does in traditional markets that we have known.When it comes or do talks
about the market the this is really just basing off in simple economic class which do talks about supply and demand or between buyers and sellers
on where they are the main or key players on why we are seeing moving prices and it cant really be called market if there would be no people
who do get involved with buying and selling. Thing here is that you do know on how to utilize those movements for your own benefit.

MCobian

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The simple answer is indeed supply and demand that drives the price of Bitcoin, but in order for the Bitcoin price to be controlled its movements
require a lot of money to do this. Therefore if a large company buys Bitcoin in large quantities it can make the Bitcoin price rise, and similarly if
there is a large company that has a large amount of Bitcoin and then sells all the Bitcoin it has, the price of Bitcoin can fall. So price manipulation
can occur and often occurs from whales who do have a lot of money, so the price of Bitcoin can be controlled by whales.

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Quote from: BALIK on December 05, 2020, 06:59:57 PM

Prices are not moved by individuals, unless they're big time whales. Any market price is moved by supply and demand. The shorter the supply and the higher the demand the more pricey it gets to purchase a coin. The opposite is true, of course. Simple economics!

If we get technical the price is in fact moved by individuals, but it is the summation of each individual trade that moves the market, after all when we are trading we are all looking for the same which is to obtain profits and pretty much look at similar indicators, so when a trader decides to sell there are many traders that already decided to do the same and this pushes the price down as the demand decreases and the supply increases, it is simple economics as you say but one that is fascinating.

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Quote from: crzy on December 09, 2020, 05:37:26 PM

Quote from: angrynerd88 on December 09, 2020, 04:50:26 PM

These are not only Whales who alone move the market. In my opinion whales are the foremost seen speculator is since they move huge sums, but that's it. In case you were to check the thousands of financial specialists, at that point they might effortlessly outperform the sum of anything a whale contributes at one time. It is also game of demand and supply some time more demand and less supply which affect the price.

Most of the time its demand and yes whales are not the only one because they only move if they will manipulate the market, after that they are just waiting in the market for their perfect timing. News, updates and adoption also increases the chance of a price movement, this is very common and yet hard to predict after all.

maybe it is true my friend said, we cannot ignore that the whale will always play and speculate to move so that what you want can be achieved and get what you want. there are many ways they can move for their interests because they are able to do that. but we also cannot underestimate the traders who can also make moves that can match what the pope has been doing. because they also have current experience.

Teraboy

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Quote from: angrynerd88 on December 09, 2020, 04:50:26 PM

These are not only Whales who alone move the market. In my opinion whales are the foremost seen speculator is since they move huge sums, but that's it. In case you were to check the thousands of financial specialists, at that point they might effortlessly outperform the sum of anything a whale contributes at one time. It is also game of demand and supply some time more demand and less supply which affect the price.

All of parties were getting involved in the bitcoin price movement. The whales itself were driving the demand to pump and dump the bitcoin. Sometimes a dump or pump that came from the big party can drive the market. We will see another big party will try to drive the price of bitcoin down with 150k bitcoin have possibilities to be dumped into the market.
The demand and supply will drive the interst from the various parties to buy bitcoin.

crzy

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Quote from: angrynerd88 on December 09, 2020, 04:50:26 PM

These are not only Whales who alone move the market. In my opinion whales are the foremost seen speculator is since they move huge sums, but that's it. In case you were to check the thousands of financial specialists, at that point they might effortlessly outperform the sum of anything a whale contributes at one time. It is also game of demand and supply some time more demand and less supply which affect the price.

Most of the time its demand and yes whales are not the only one because they only move if they will manipulate the market, after that they are just waiting in the market for their perfect timing. News, updates and adoption also increases the chance of a price movement, this is very common and yet hard to predict after all.

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These are not only Whales who alone move the market. In my opinion whales are the foremost seen speculator is since they move huge sums, but that's it. In case you were to check the thousands of financial specialists, at that point they might effortlessly outperform the sum of anything a whale contributes at one time. It is also game of demand and supply some time more demand and less supply which affect the price.

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Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 09:27:53 PM

Whales supposedly are the ones who can make the price suddenly jump or drop...but they trade on OTC desks right? not on retail exchanges....so how are these Whale movements being reflected on retail exchanges to determine what the current bitcoin price is?

Firstly It's not necessary all Whales will sell using OTC. They can use various exchange at a time to sell their BTC and they do that.
Secondly, any kind of trades is effective to change the Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies prices.
And lastly, Whales are responsible to change the Bitcoin price.

BTCappu

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There are people who are speculators and manipulators which does have an impact, all these huge moves are things we all do as community, nobody is powerful enough to bring bitcoin from 9k levels to $20k levels, nobody has that kind of money neither, you have to be warren buffet to bring that much money and invest. However when we have like $11.2k to $11.8k type of moves back in the day, that could have been people who are speculators and manipulators, they do not really make those kinds of moves because they can, they do it because they also want to and it profits them.

There are tons of reasons like for example short/long futures where if you have enough money you could liquidate others money and make it your own very quickly with just one pump or dump you could provide.

BALIK

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Prices are not moved by individuals, unless they're big time whales. Any market price is moved by supply and demand. The shorter the supply and the higher the demand the more pricey it gets to purchase a coin. The opposite is true, of course. Simple economics!

JooBra

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Quote from: bearexin on December 05, 2020, 10:55:31 AM

Liquidation is not really that important, you could have lower liquidation and still go up as well. However it is obvious that people would cash out, but remember even though fiat gets removed from the market, the bitcoin number always stays the same which means even if some people left the market, that means someone else bought their coins and we are still doing fine as well.

So, it is not really big deal because even though there are some people who wanted to get out, that also means there were some people who wanted to stay involved and that is the important part. Now the market has more % number of people who want to stay and who believes in bitcoin, and as long as we have higher and higher percentage of those people the price will keep going up.

You mean if more and more traders will choose bitcoin among other coin that is the reason why it pumps? maybe yes but as what can we see for example in binance, there are some huge sell and buy orders amount that simply we can "walls", if these walls will broke we can say that price might go up or goes down, recently the wall for bitcoin breaks and makes the bitcoin price dip from nearly 20k now from what last time I saw is nearly 18k.

All what you said is right and because of that "walls" we will stay under 20k. The price will be tested a few times before it breaks and then it should move up a bit more until it hits new wall. That is my opinion. There are a lot of factors which move the price. Big holders, hype, general economy, big news... all impacts the price.

bearexin

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Liquidation is not really that important, you could have lower liquidation and still go up as well. However it is obvious that people would cash out, but remember even though fiat gets removed from the market, the bitcoin number always stays the same which means even if some people left the market, that means someone else bought their coins and we are still doing fine as well.

So, it is not really big deal because even though there are some people who wanted to get out, that also means there were some people who wanted to stay involved and that is the important part. Now the market has more % number of people who want to stay and who believes in bitcoin, and as long as we have higher and higher percentage of those people the price will keep going up.

Janation

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Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on November 26, 2020, 05:30:47 AM

People who buy bitcoin are the ones who move and manipulate the price of bitcoin, but whales are sometimes the reason when bitcoin is making a huge movement to its price because they are the ones who hold the large number of bitcoins. It is why when the price is high they start to sell their bitcoins, and if when the price is low they start to buy bitcoins.

We all know this but to be honest, all of the dumps that happened in the past were either because of hackers hacking exchanges and these hackers and scammers dumping it to mixers.

We can't call them whales because all of those cryptocurrencies were just stolen or scammed. Some of the upward movement is because of some group or an individual buying Bitcoin. I don't know if there is an actual person or an individual that actually sold or manipulated the price but we know that it is a possibility, we just don't know if that actually happened.

darewaller

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Quote from: jaberwock on November 26, 2020, 01:39:43 AM

there are traders who have buy and sell orders on multiple exchanges so if the liquidity is disturbed they take advantage of that but it also stabilizes the market.

For example, if Binance has $20k for BTC and other exchange has $19.8k then there would be traders taking advantage by buying at 19.8k until the 20k is reached so they take advantage and the market stabilizes.

I understand that there are big players in the market but we should remember that many big players also uses OTC as well. Do you really think you could just put 500 million dollars into binance and buy bitcoin? That is nearly impossible, I mean technically speaking it would be possible but you would be losing tens of millions of dollars along the way because you would destroy the market or would have to spend months buying it.

But, when you arrange something WTIH binance itself, they make a ton of money from trading fee's but can't sell it to market right back that easily, so grayscale buys directly from binance and does an OTC deal which helps them. Names are examples but it really does happen like that so the whales do not change the price that much the way you think.

ropyu1978

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Quote from: Majharul Saiif on November 29, 2020, 09:50:38 AM

When demands are more than supply then the prices rise, and when the supplies are more than demand then prices fall. Simply it's happening around the world in every stock market and digital currencies. In my sense actually, supply and demand move the prices of BTC. There are some other factors like whale investors, the international economy changes, allow or deny by any government, etc.

Demand and supply move bitcoin price, but its depend with some one have much money and could change how to make much supply and demand with their money, I think if have much money I will control how to make bitcoin or altcoin price, its simple when do you much money you can make bitcoin or altcoin depend with price do you want, if you wanna make bitcoin pump you will buy much bitcoin and hold it, when you sell your bitcoin assets price down.

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