who actually moves the price of bitcoin? - page 6.

Sterbens

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Quote from: mersal on November 19, 2020, 10:24:00 AM

Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

Most bitcoin prices are tied to an average or a collection of what the top exchanges publish as the current bitcoin price. But who's actually moving their prices? From my understanding, retail users don't have the power to move prices in the short term. Whales supposedly are the ones who can make the price suddenly jump or drop...but they trade on OTC desks right? not on retail exchanges....so how are these Whale movements being reflected on retail exchanges to determine what the current bitcoin price is? Or are there actually some whales who use the exchanges to trade on?

You can even move the price of bitcoin as well by setting your desired value while buying or selling but it may get influenced only if your trading volume gets enough to manipulate the total trading volume normally the volume needed will be few millions.

Yes, please want to sell bitcoins at any price, as long as he can wait until he is old. High price creeping pattern with long queues as if we were gambling. Suppose we have bought bitcoin for $ 15,000, and want to sell it in a queue for $ 25,000, but we are not sure to hit that price. he was more likely to use instinct than to read market charts.

darewaller

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Quote from: DarkDays on November 19, 2020, 06:29:16 AM

The better question to ask is what moves the price of BTC?

The response is simple: supply and demand. And the players in the filed such as whales, institutions, investors etc are contributing to tipping the market of demand and supply, and what seems to be happening now is that demand is much higher. This could be to these players speculating that BTC will go up in value. This in turn creates a positive loop whereby more and more people now become interested in buying for fear of not losing out, reinforcing the cycle.

Demand and supply is the obvious reason but to be honest I wonder sometimes like why the demand increased so much suddenly that the price jumped from 12k to 17k and beyond because I mean there is no particular news of why someone would need so many Bitcoins. People often give the reason that as the end of the year gets closer people buy Bitcoins but in all honesty I cannot think of them increasing the price to such high numbers.

I believe whales sometimes buy Bitcoins and they must have enormous bankroll to do that or maybe there are companies investing into Bitcoins as I was reading a thread about Mexican 2nd richest person investing in Bitcoins, maybe that is the reason behind the price rise.

Oshosondy

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on November 19, 2020, 04:59:33 PM

Each individual (traders, investors, etc) sales conclusion but whales have the upper hand since they accumulated enough coins which would impact the market price.

Whales have upper hand because they have more funds for bitcoin, you can see how Grayscale really impacted to bitcoin marketcap recently, recently it has accumulated over 500000 bitcoin, this has been one of the factors that drove the price of bitcoin up right from $10000 to $18000 recently. Although, there are many whales which are regarded as institutional investors that are involved in this, they are more responsible for the price increase as they buy more than retail investors.

suzanne5223

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Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

But who's actually moving their prices?

Each individual (traders, investors, etc) sales conclusion but whales have the upper hand since they accumulated enough coins which would impact the market price.

Quote from: isaac_clarke22 on November 19, 2020, 02:48:36 PM

Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

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It's mostly the demand, the whales are the specific person that do those because of course they buy a lot of coins.
Sometimes hype do as well in some coins. See those other coins getting pumped and dumped? Yeah they're the ones for hypes mostly and just die throughout the night.

No, it the level of demand and supply of the market with the addition of positive news which will somehow support the market pump in price but what the whales and arbitrage traders did is manipulate the market to make a profit.
That's why experienced investors are usually advised to follow the whales and arbitrage traders decisions.

Wapfika

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Quote from: Wysi on November 19, 2020, 11:13:48 AM

I would we can refer the term to whales and institutions as manipulators instead of people moving the price as its not just the Bitcoin value they are manipulating but rather the emotions of thousands of new users who recently joins crypto space as well as those who have already invested into Bitcoin, it's really disheartening to see most trusted crypto is manipulated just like that, this needs to be stopped but unfortunately we cannot do much since noone has control over it nor can we have any restrictions.

Traders or fund managers of different companies especially the big one's manipulate the market, they give great impact in price movement so we better be always active whenever there are news in a certain crypto project that can affect their price. Sometimes this movements were good as we can see that we invested in a good coin since they are actively tradable by many.

posi

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Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

Whales supposedly are the ones who can make the price suddenly jump or drop...but they trade on OTC desks right? not on retail exchanges....

Whales are not always responsible for suddenly pump and dump of the market but they have the huge chance to manipulate to market price. However, the trading happening in the OTC are unknown to the online exchange or trading activity ies and the whales that influence the price of the market bought their holding through an online exchange site.
You can follow their movement through whales alerts.

Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

so how are these Whale movements being reflected on retail exchanges to determine what the current bitcoin price is? Or are there actually some whales who use the exchanges to trade on?

Yes, there are a lot of whales that use exchange and the reason why their decision influence the market price is because the crypto market price is determined by the level of demand and supply.

isaac_clarke22

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Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

~

It's mostly the demand, the whales are the specific person that do those because of course they buy a lot of coins.
Sometimes hype do as well in some coins. See those other coins getting pumped and dumped? Yeah they're the ones for hypes mostly and just die throughout the night.

Kulkhan

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Actually Bitcoin is Decentralised Cryptocurrenchy. No One Can't move its Price. I think Traders only Can Move it’s Price. When investors and Traders Buy it huge then it’s price up and when it’s trajection were poor then it’s price dowm. I think it is only reason for Moving Bitcoin Price.

mr_random

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Hedge funds and financial organizations are main market makers , the rest of market traders never have been able to move the BTC price tick more than few pips, like in all other finance markets.

mindrust

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Quote from: passwordnow on November 18, 2020, 10:31:16 PM

Whales, institutions, normal buyers. With the combined purchasing power of the normal buyers just like you and me, it creates a demand that affects the price to increase.
In simple explanation, that's what happens when the price goes up. The demand is high. And another one is when there are millions of newly printed Tether. Tongue

Add Bitfinex there.

Since bitcoin is mostly being traded against Tethers since a while, whoever prints those tethers are in control of Bitcoin's price.

That's only my thought. Take it with a grain of salt.

usekevin

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Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

Most bitcoin prices are tied to an average or a collection of what the top exchanges publish as the current bitcoin price. But who's actually moving their prices? From my understanding, retail users don't have the power to move prices in the short term. Whales supposedly are the ones who can make the price suddenly jump or drop...but they trade on OTC desks right? not on retail exchanges....so how are these Whale movements being reflected on retail exchanges to determine what the current bitcoin price is? Or are there actually some whales who use the exchanges to trade on?

No one had involved in bitcoin price movement.Bitcoin is the decentralised cryptocurrency.It mean,movement is based on many factors and not on particular factor.So investors,traders,mining people ,trading capacity by individual,trading volume,involvement of whale in the market will decide the price.

Reid

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Whales move it?
So we could conclude now that Bitcoin is being manipulated only.
Which will be chaos right?
Who else will believe with one technology that is already concluded as being manipulated by rich people?
I wont. I dont like them to be more richer than how they are right now.

I do think even the small purchasers has the power to move it.
Ain't this PayPal addition of buying bitcoin option already a good example?

Fatunad

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Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

Most bitcoin prices are tied to an average or a collection of what the top exchanges publish as the current bitcoin price. But who's actually moving their prices? From my understanding, retail users don't have the power to move prices in the short term. Whales supposedly are the ones who can make the price suddenly jump or drop...but they trade on OTC desks right? not on retail exchanges....so how are these Whale movements being reflected on retail exchanges to determine what the current bitcoin price is? Or are there actually some whales who use the exchanges to trade on?

It doesnt matter if youre a whale, average joe, retailers or what when it comes to entire price market movement then these are the main component on
why its moving.It all matters with buying and selling power which would really be the main driving force on why its soo volatile which is way more than
on typical markets that we do know like forex and stocks and since we are trading with decentralized or uncontrollable things then liquidity
is much really higher.So it doesnt matter on what youre position neither a big whale or a small fry. Cheesy

wxa7115

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Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

Most bitcoin prices are tied to an average or a collection of what the top exchanges publish as the current bitcoin price. But who's actually moving their prices? From my understanding, retail users don't have the power to move prices in the short term. Whales supposedly are the ones who can make the price suddenly jump or drop...but they trade on OTC desks right? not on retail exchanges....so how are these Whale movements being reflected on retail exchanges to determine what the current bitcoin price is? Or are there actually some whales who use the exchanges to trade on?

It is the aggregate demand of every single trader that moves the price, even if whales are buying in a OTC desks the fact that they are buying a huge amount of bitcoin means that there is now less supply in the market and once that happens and the demand remains the same that can only mean that the price goes up.

Retail investors are also able to move the price, after all when they see the price moving up they are more reluctant to sell their bitcoin because they are expecting it to grow in value even more, this reduces the supply even further and it gives the price a chance to go up in value even more, so as you can see the reason why you cannot see how can price moves is because you are only looking at the demand and you're not taking the time to consider the supply which is equally important.

pragna

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Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

Most bitcoin prices are tied to an average or a collection of what the top exchanges publish as the current bitcoin price. But who's actually moving their prices? From my understanding, retail users don't have the power to move prices in the short term. Whales supposedly are the ones who can make the price suddenly jump or drop...but they trade on OTC desks right? not on retail exchanges....so how are these Whale movements being reflected on retail exchanges to determine what the current bitcoin price is? Or are there actually some whales who use the exchanges to trade on?

Yea, big whales may interrup here but if we go for simple thing, it was excerpted from BTC market because in nCOVID time huge invested came and 2nd weave of nCOVID also on going. On the other hand many banks and financial organization accepting BTC as payment or custoding method. I think all over good combination now going in crypto market so that market is going up.

thanks.

Wysi

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I would we can refer the term to whales and institutions as manipulators instead of people moving the price as its not just the Bitcoin value they are manipulating but rather the emotions of thousands of new users who recently joins crypto space as well as those who have already invested into Bitcoin, it's really disheartening to see most trusted crypto is manipulated just like that, this needs to be stopped but unfortunately we cannot do much since noone has control over it nor can we have any restrictions.

mersal

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Quote from: jiamijiang on November 18, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

Most bitcoin prices are tied to an average or a collection of what the top exchanges publish as the current bitcoin price. But who's actually moving their prices? From my understanding, retail users don't have the power to move prices in the short term. Whales supposedly are the ones who can make the price suddenly jump or drop...but they trade on OTC desks right? not on retail exchanges....so how are these Whale movements being reflected on retail exchanges to determine what the current bitcoin price is? Or are there actually some whales who use the exchanges to trade on?

You can even move the price of bitcoin as well by setting your desired value while buying or selling but it may get influenced only if your trading volume gets enough to manipulate the total trading volume normally the volume needed will be few millions.

el kaka22

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We do. Really it is not someone special that moves the price, when you buy bitcoin you move the price, when you sell bitcoin you move the price. Basically if you do it with small amount of money you do not move it that much yourself but enough of small movements make a big movement, or maybe one big buy/sell makes a bigger movement.

However it is certain that unless the whole market believes on a direction it will not get to a level and it would just stay there. Even if someone comes along with a billion dollars and buys bitcoin, it is not going to make a change unless market agrees to it, we could easily eat up that 1 billion dollars by all small fish selling theirs right away countering it. So, every single trade matters when it comes to moving the price.

MWesterweele

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Quote from: DarkDays on November 19, 2020, 06:29:16 AM

The better question to ask is what moves the price of BTC?

The response is simple: supply and demand. And the players in the filed such as whales, institutions, investors etc are contributing to tipping the market of demand and supply, and what seems to be happening now is that demand is much higher. This could be to these players speculating that BTC will go up in value. This in turn creates a positive loop whereby more and more people now become interested in buying for fear of not losing out, reinforcing the cycle.

No one can actually made a big impact or movement in bitcoin price. No certain person can made it but only the demand and supply of the bitcoin could make it moves. Thats when whales, investors and traders can made a supply and demand varies there is where the bitcoin prices start to varies to. What i mean no certain person or group of whales can made a big impact but it is we the member of the community of crypto made it moves.

XZERO1

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I'd say it's mostly institutions and retailers money flowing into crypto market this time and that's why we see such a big spike in the price of Bitcoin, also don't ever forget the impact that this pandemic had in everyone's thought about how should they keep their money and whether it's worth the risk to be all in their national currencies and they are now worried about that.

To keep it short people now are thinking about alternatives to their national currencies to keep their money on that will not be affected by pandemic or other global or regional problems, Gold is another example that had a huge increase in demand lately because of the same reason, crypto is even better considering you can spend it and buy stuff with it online without even having to leave your house during pandemic so no wonder that bitcoin increased in value at all.

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