Who control our bitcoins? WE do!! ☆ BANK RUN ☆

KingZee

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Check your coin privilege

Quote from: Realerre on December 23, 2018, 01:57:32 PM

3 January 2019

Finally, the date for the bank run is coming! Many people are coordinating for this date.

Don't let any coin on the exchangers ever, but expecially on 3th January 2019!

I usually report necros, but this is a relevant event that is happening soon.

https://www.proofofkeys.com/

Proof of keys is a very nice way to send a message to all the exchanges (I wish people would do this for online wallets as well..) that the bitcoin they own, is not their own.

But it should also be a reminder to everyone, that if you don't own the private key, you don't own the money on that address. So please don't keep your funds on exchanges, or at least keep only funds you are actively trading or using.

Ranly123

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★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!

Quote from: pereira4 on January 21, 2015, 02:54:30 PM

Quote from: erre on January 21, 2015, 02:16:41 PM

For many users, included me, there are good chanches that the exchangers are acutually doing what banks usually do: operating on fractional reserve.

This is extremely dangerous for bitcoin, besides the price tanking because non-existent bitcoins are currently traded. More than that, letting them to do it invalidate the whole bitcoin concept, a perfect money for an untrusted network.

Bitstamp is constantly refusing to do an audit, also after all the shit that happened. Me and many others do not trust they on their word about not operating on fractional reserve, but they refuse to submit proof because they think they are " too big to fail". They are acting just like a bank, and by all the chanches operating under fractional reserve (maybe, also legally). Let's prove them wrong!

I want to organize a bank run, somebody can help me?

If you put your coins on an exchange they aren't your coins anymore because you dont own the private keys, you should have known that.
Putting bitcoin in a centralized exchange was always a bad idea, ideal for scammers. Im not putting a single btc in an exchange until decentralized ones appear.

It's always not a good idea to put our Bitcoin in a centralized exchange where third party take part on the exchange. I also am not putting my stocks in such an untrustworthy kind of trade.

Realerre

member

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3 January 2019

Finally, the date for the bank run is coming! Many people are coordinating for this date.

Don't let any coin on the exchangers ever, but expecially on 3th January 2019!

thejaytiesto

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Quote from: findftp on February 05, 2015, 03:04:10 PM

Quote from: Amph on January 23, 2015, 09:26:50 AM

we are all waiting for decentralized exchange like open bazar, they should finish this year their job

We are all waiting for bitcoin to be global reserve currency so that we can abandon all exchanges.
By the time allts will also be proven worthless.

If you like investing and speculating like me you'll still want exchanges to have fun with Cheesy

manselr

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Quote from: picolo on February 05, 2015, 04:06:08 PM

Quote from: findftp on February 05, 2015, 03:04:10 PM

Quote from: Amph on January 23, 2015, 09:26:50 AM

we are all waiting for decentralized exchange like open bazar, they should finish this year their job

We are all waiting for bitcoin to be global reserve currency so that we can abandon all exchanges.
By the time allts will also be proven worthless.

If Bitcoin becomes a global reserve currency, it is likely that at least a couple altcoins have some long term success too!

Not if they want to replace bitcoin, only if they add something new.

picolo

hero member

Activity: 1022

Merit: 500

Quote from: findftp on February 05, 2015, 03:04:10 PM

Quote from: Amph on January 23, 2015, 09:26:50 AM

we are all waiting for decentralized exchange like open bazar, they should finish this year their job

We are all waiting for bitcoin to be global reserve currency so that we can abandon all exchanges.
By the time allts will also be proven worthless.

If Bitcoin becomes a global reserve currency, it is likely that at least a couple altcoins have some long term success too!

findftp

legendary

Activity: 1022

Merit: 1006

Delusional crypto obsessionist

Quote from: Amph on January 23, 2015, 09:26:50 AM

we are all waiting for decentralized exchange like open bazar, they should finish this year their job

We are all waiting for bitcoin to be global reserve currency so that we can abandon all exchanges.
By the time allts will also be proven worthless.

gbianchi

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Merit: 2657

here my topic about BTC exchanges and their way of using a fractional-reserve: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dataexchanges-their-way-of-using-a-fractional-reserve-and-generate-inflation-945881

erre

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Activity: 1652

Merit: 1205

Some people are getting this, I think that spread thisinformation would be good for the btc ecosystem, I was really shocked when I understood how much it can damage bitcoins.

This is another very good explanation about how fractional reserve would work for bitcoins:

It is important to recognize the difference between Currency Supply and Money Supply. The currency supply of bitcoins is limited to 21 million. Money supply is higher because it includes demand deposits. Let us take an example: Suppose that there are only 100 Bitcoins on Earth all owned by Satoshi. He puts all 100 in Bank Alpha. Bank Alpha puts 20 of the bitcoins (20%) in a special account and leaves them there. They then lend out 80 bitcoins to Gavin. Bank Alpha tells Satoshi on his account page that his account has 100 bitcoins in it. The total money supply of Bitcoins at this point is 180. You can see that there is no magic required. Now, Gavin buys some LolCat comics from Cameron for 80 bitcoins. Cameron puts his 80 bitcoins in his bank, Bank Beta. Bank Beta puts 20% in reserve (16 bitcoins) and has 64 to lend out. They lend those 64 bitcoins to someone else. Cameron's account page on Bank Beta's website says he has 80 bitcoins in his account. The money supply of bitcoin is now 100+80+64 = 244 bitcoins. Supposing all banks put 20% in reserves for safe keeping, and suppose everyone uses banks (as opposed to keeping them in a wallet on their computer) then the money supply of bitcoin will max out at 500 bitcoins. Obviously because some people will hold their own bitcoins and because they will be used out in the world for transactions, the money supply wouldn't reach 500 bitcoins, but it can easily exceed 100.
An obvious response is 'Well what happens when Gavin takes his bitcoins out of the bank!?' The answer is that that is what the reserves are for. Although not reflected in this example, the actual reserves held by a bank would be vastly greater than the amount held in any individual customer's account.
And that is how Fractional Reserve Banking works.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Myths#Fractional_reserve_banking_with_Bitcoin_is_fundamentally_different

(Note that there are plenty of solutionso other than "simply" borrowing, like shorting or mining

B.A.S.

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Activity: 420

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Maybe it doesn't with the private industry but it should. Fractional reserve is fraud made legal, plenty of bankers have been lynched after runs on supposedly full reserve banks in times when it was a crime and tolerating any possibility of it with Bitcoin allows the same thing to happen, 10 times more on the books than in the vaults.

100% agreement here, just the normative evil of the world. I urge you to check out the FDIC website regarding historical reserves since the 70s. They publish yearly values. If you look at their ratios, you will soon realize that even the FDIC hasn't remained solvent (they are public). They are below a ratio of 1:1 many years now. It's quite sad, but the system is backed by the Fed which is backed by the USG. Centralization allows this to occur unchecked.

Quote

If some exchanges and services can operate with full transparency and store everything in user controlled wallets then why can't others? What do they have to hide? Anyone not asking that is irresponsible with their coins and deserves to loose them.

They don't want you to know because it relinquishes their control on you as a customer. If you don't know, you are forced to believe in them and form a bond of trust. This makes the equation one-sided and it doesn't benefit the customer (us). This is what they want.

We can ask all we want, take our business elsewhere, etc., but if mainstream gets it, you can bet it will go this way. The sheeple do not care about transparency. It is not important to them; I'd dare to say most like not having to make any decisions of their own. It boggles my mind sometimes.

B.A.S.

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Activity: 420

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Quote from: erre on January 21, 2015, 02:16:41 PM

For many users, included me, there are good chanches that the exchangers are acutually doing what banks usually do: operating on fractional reserve.

This is extremely dangerous for bitcoin, besides the price tanking because non-existent bitcoins are currently traded. More than that, letting them to do it invalidate the whole bitcoin concept, a perfect money for an untrusted network.

Bitstamp is constantly refusing to do an audit, also after all the shit that happened. Me and many others do not trust they on their word about not operating on fractional reserve, but they refuse to submit proof because they think they are " too big to fail". They are acting just like a bank, and by all the chanches operating under fractional reserve (maybe, also legally). Let's prove them wrong!

I want to organize a bank run, somebody can help me?

The mainstream at large is ~~allowing~~ demanding Bitcoin to go this way. Exchanges are the interface between the customer and the miners (BTC minter) just as banks are the interface between the customer and the Fed (money creator). It has been shown time and time again trust is difficult in practice. Not saying I agree with it, but it appears this is a necessary evil if the technology is to be implemented in the real world.

Another problem is that the technology may be public, however; all infrastructure is private. As nice as it sounds, demanding solvency audits and inner circle information doesn't have to happen with private industry.

erre

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Quote from: picolo on January 26, 2015, 08:28:39 AM

Quote from: erre on January 25, 2015, 10:47:38 AM

Quote from: Lethn on January 25, 2015, 10:29:35 AM

erre, now you're just spamming, it's obvious you're not interested in listening to the other side of the debate.

Wut? I just posted a link from bitcoin wiki, stating exactly what i'm claiming:

" While the number of bitcoins in existence will never exceed 21 million, the money supply of bitcoins can exceed 21 million due to Fractional-reserve Banking"

What is the other side? You said " that can not happen, community will spot it in no-time", but seems that you can't explain me how. MtGox was a real different thing, they where not operating at a very sustainable 2% fractional reserve or so, they were just scamming and faking trades.

I understand that OP was really bad written and I apologise for my english, but my biggest error seemed to assume that everybody already knows about fractional reserve and the related risk, and this seems not.

Please look at this post, it explain the whole thing better than me:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10245596

" While the number of bitcoins in existence will never exceed 21 million, the money supply of bitcoins can exceed 21 million due to Fractional-reserve Banking"

The problem is we don't know what bitcoin websites use a fractional-reserve banking system so we don't know the real money supply.

Exactly that! We can know if a site is operating on fractional reserve or not only by forcing it to do an audit, or if we withdraw all the money (pretty much the same as doing an audit)... otherwise, it would be impossible to spot it only by blockchain analysis.

picolo

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Quote from: erre on January 25, 2015, 10:47:38 AM

Quote from: Lethn on January 25, 2015, 10:29:35 AM

erre, now you're just spamming, it's obvious you're not interested in listening to the other side of the debate.

Wut? I just posted a link from bitcoin wiki, stating exactly what i'm claiming:

" While the number of bitcoins in existence will never exceed 21 million, the money supply of bitcoins can exceed 21 million due to Fractional-reserve Banking"

What is the other side? You said " that can not happen, community will spot it in no-time", but seems that you can't explain me how. MtGox was a real different thing, they where not operating at a very sustainable 2% fractional reserve or so, they were just scamming and faking trades.

I understand that OP was really bad written and I apologise for my english, but my biggest error seemed to assume that everybody already knows about fractional reserve and the related risk, and this seems not.

Please look at this post, it explain the whole thing better than me:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10245596

" While the number of bitcoins in existence will never exceed 21 million, the money supply of bitcoins can exceed 21 million due to Fractional-reserve Banking"

The problem is we don't know what bitcoin websites use a fractional-reserve banking system so we don't know the real money supply.

erre

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Quote from: Lethn on January 25, 2015, 10:55:10 AM

Quote

What is the other side? You said " that can not happen, community will spot it in no-time", but seems that you can't explain me how. MtGox was a real different thing, they where not operating at a very sustainable 2% fractional reserve or so, they were just scamming and faking trades.

You ignored my explanations of how the blockchain and transactions worked, so yes, you're just spamming your own point of view now and choosing to ignore what quite a few people have told you.

I didn't ignored it, I just told that i'm not talking about the coins on the blockchain (existing bitcoins) but about coins on the blockchain + coins on exchangers (money supply). If exchangers don't operate on fractional reserve, existing btc would equal to money supply.

But I am claiming that the money supply is artificially augmented by faking the amount of coins on exchangers (not on the blockchain), so actually money supply>existing btc. You can do it without faking any tx on the blockchain and you can let users withdraw all they want to, unless users do an organized bank run or force you to do an audit. You seemed to ignore this.

Lethn

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Quote

What is the other side? You said " that can not happen, community will spot it in no-time", but seems that you can't explain me how. MtGox was a real different thing, they where not operating at a very sustainable 2% fractional reserve or so, they were just scamming and faking trades.

You ignored my explanations of how the blockchain and transactions worked, so yes, you're just spamming your own point of view now and choosing to ignore what quite a few people have told you.

erre

legendary

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Merit: 1205

Quote from: Lethn on January 25, 2015, 10:29:35 AM

erre, now you're just spamming, it's obvious you're not interested in listening to the other side of the debate.

Wut? I just posted a link from bitcoin wiki, stating exactly what i'm claiming:

" While the number of bitcoins in existence will never exceed 21 million, the money supply of bitcoins can exceed 21 million due to Fractional-reserve Banking"

What is the other side? You said " that can not happen, community will spot it in no-time", but seems that you can't explain me how. MtGox was a real different thing, they where not operating at a very sustainable 2% fractional reserve or so, they were just scamming and faking trades.

I understand that OP was really bad written and I apologise for my english, but my biggest error seemed to assume that everybody already knows about fractional reserve and the related risk, and this seems not.

Please look at this post, it explain the whole thing better than me:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10245596

pereira4

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Quote from: botany on January 25, 2015, 04:48:44 AM

Keep your bitcoins on exchanges for short durations only. The probability that the exchange would go belly up in that short duration is much lower.
Choose safety over convenience.

I keep hearing this, but how in the f*k are you supossed to do daytrading if you can't keep your bitcoin in exchanges for long periods of time?

Lethn

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erre, now you're just spamming, it's obvious you're not interested in listening to the other side of the debate.

erre

legendary

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Very relevant to the topic:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply

picolo

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Quote from: erre on January 21, 2015, 02:16:41 PM

For many users, included me, there are good chanches that the exchangers are acutually doing what banks usually do: operating on fractional reserve.

This is extremely dangerous for bitcoin, besides the price tanking because non-existent bitcoins are currently traded. More than that, letting them to do it invalidate the whole bitcoin concept, a perfect money for an untrusted network.

Bitstamp is constantly refusing to do an audit, also after all the shit that happened. Me and many others do not trust they on their word about not operating on fractional reserve, but they refuse to submit proof because they think they are " too big to fail". They are acting just like a bank, and by all the chanches operating under fractional reserve (maybe, also legally). Let's prove them wrong!

I want to organize a bank run, somebody can help me?

All people owning bitcoins and who wanted to cash out found someone willing to give them fiat for their bitcoins, at least 150$.

Topic: Who control our bitcoins? WE do!! ☆ BANK RUN ☆ (Read 4539 times)