Why are some international payment companies not allowing Americans to join?

QuestionAuthority

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Quote from: wmcorless on December 06, 2013, 03:21:57 PM

Quote from: smoothrunnings on November 14, 2013, 07:43:30 AM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on June 29, 2013, 03:23:40 AM

Not allowing Americans to join? Not allowing Americans to join? Let's go kick their ass!

Team America World Police - Fuck Yeah!

It no surprise with American's like this why people around the world hate American's. Sad

its called humor

He doesn't even realize I'm making fun of America. Humor is the one thing I've noticed that really doesn't cross national boundaries very well.

wmcorless

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Quote from: smoothrunnings on November 14, 2013, 07:43:30 AM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on June 29, 2013, 03:23:40 AM

Not allowing Americans to join? Not allowing Americans to join? Let's go kick their ass!

Team America World Police - Fuck Yeah!

It no surprise with American's like this why people around the world hate American's. Sad

its called humor

smoothrunnings

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on June 29, 2013, 03:23:40 AM

Not allowing Americans to join? Not allowing Americans to join? Let's go kick their ass!

Team America World Police - Fuck Yeah!

It no surprise with American's like this why people around the world hate American's. Sad

EhVedadoOAnonimato

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Quote from: tvbcof on November 12, 2013, 12:35:16 AM

It seems pretty clear to me that this is not about tax revenue particularly. My best guess is that it is about lubing up the machinery needed for significant capital controls.

Definitely. I read somewhere that the estimations on how much tax money this will bring back makes it just not worthy, if that was the only motivation.

It already works as capital controls, actually. And it's also a surveillance tool.

Ecurb123

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Why are some international payment companies not allowing Americans to join?

Because by doing so they make themselves targets of the USA.

Think Liberty Reserve or Megauploads if you have any doubt.

No US customers, no risk from the USA.

~BCX~

that's right. Even just regular back accounts can be hard for US persons to open.

tvbcof

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Quote from: sushi on November 12, 2013, 12:24:30 AM

It got really bad from this year, when any financial institution who has business in USA are required to report all transactioins of US Citizen & Green Card holders. In order for the banks and other financial companies to comply with the requirement, it would cost them in millions, so the cheapest solution to keep in the business was to shut out Americans.

Americans created the laws and the same Americans who got booted from the banks and brokerage accounts all over the world. Americans can THANK their Democrats!!! Grin

It is creating a lot of troubles for many Americans abroad. You can't do much without a bank account now days.

As I recall, the cost of operation of FACTA is one order of magnitude MORE than the taxes brought in, and it is to be borne largely by the foreign financial operators. The revenues are not expected to be particularly meaningful anyway in the scheme of things.

It seems pretty clear to me that this is not about tax revenue particularly. My best guess is that it is about lubing up the machinery needed for significant capital controls. Ah well...I've always theorized Bitcoin will bump along until it is truly needed, then take off on a fairly steep trajectory toward it's theoretical potential...

sushi

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It got really bad from this year, when any financial institution who has business in USA are required to report all transactioins of US Citizen & Green Card holders. In order for the banks and other financial companies to comply with the requirement, it would cost them in millions, so the cheapest solution to keep in the business was to shut out Americans.

Americans created the laws and the same Americans who got booted from the banks and brokerage accounts all over the world. Americans can THANK their Democrats!!! Grin

It is creating a lot of troubles for many Americans abroad. You can't do much without a bank account now days.

oakpacific

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While I agree with a lot of things said on this thread, history keeps reminding us that it's very often the case the fall of one great hegemony/tyranny will only give birth to a more ruthless/fierce one, that's, probably, until Bitcoin. The status quo should not be destroyed until we're sure we have one technically superior to replace it.

wmcorless

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Yeah, FACTA is probably the reason, and its no surprise that Democrat fascists are the ones behind this law.

People stop voting for DEMOFASCISTS. Huh

But again, If I started a company in a foreign country and the IRS comes knocking on my door and says give me your papers, I'd tell the to f*ck off!! Shocked

So all you companies who are not interested in doing business in the US can give the finger to the DEMOFASCISTS and support your American Customers with love.

Remember They can't do anything to you as long as you don't own assets in the US.

Rez

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on June 29, 2013, 10:28:17 AM

Quote from: Mike Hearn on June 29, 2013, 10:07:24 AM

If you that's annoying for people who live in the USA, try being a US citizen who moves abroad and also has your account terminated:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/US_expats_feel_the_burden_of_FATCA.html?cid=35932576

The poor bastards can't even renounce their citizenship to avoid the great tax nazi. http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

I clicked the link. Now the NSA thinks I'm planning to defect. Haha! Thanks. Wink

Seriously, though - "Want to stop being an American? FUCK YOU, you're an American until WE say you're not. You're going to be a citizen of the Greatest Freedomocracy in the History of EVER, and you're going to like it."

EhVedadoOAnonimato

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Quote from: wmcorless on October 27, 2013, 12:24:30 AM

I think this is just conjecture on your part. The concept of jurisdiction would preclude any of these statements.

Man, I'm not inventing anything, just read about the subject, and you'll see it yourself. Since when does the USG care about the concept of jurisdiction BTW?

Quote from: wmcorless on October 27, 2013, 12:24:30 AM

Can you substantiate any of this or show me the provisions?

More? Okay, let's try.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance_Act
https://www.internationalman.com/78-global-perspectives/1009-fatca-a-tool-of-the-electronic-surveillance-state
http://www.repealfatca.com/
https://www.internationalman.com/78-global-perspectives/995-the-worst-law-most-americans-have-never-heard-of
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Corporations/Foreign-Account-Tax-Compliance-Act-%28FATCA%29

Quote from: wikipedia

It requires foreign financial institutions, such as banks, to enter into an agreement with the IRS to identify their U.S. account holders and to disclose the account holders' names, TINs, addresses, and the accounts' balances, receipts, and withdrawals.[12] U.S. payors making payments to non-compliant foreign financial institutions are required to withhold 30% of the gross payments.[13][14][15] Foreign financial institutions which are themselves the beneficial owners of such payments are not permitted a credit or refund on withheld taxes absent a treaty override.[16]

leopard2

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Ordering gold will not do you any good. USG registers all rare metal purchases, so you don't truly own it - you are just allow to possess it temporarily. If you want to own gold you need to purchase it anonymously for cash. I think in Canada you can still do that(??)

Lethn

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Quote

Is the US Government trying to disrupt the movement of money?

This isn't necessarily what the U.S are doing ( yet, but they will ) even I know that but a lot of people don't see it that way, I've learned when a country begins to fail the economic restrictions become more and more unreasonable and restrictive, the kind of thing you're seeing in America is called capital flight and wealth transfer, everybody wants to get out of the dollar even if no one will admit it. I have also seen certain financial services that aren't even payment processors denying access to U.S citizens.

It's nothing to do with the people the regulations are just so restrictive and expensive and the dollar so worthless that it's becoming more cost effective to stay out of the U.S entirely, this is why cryptocurrencies are such a good idea though because then you can trade without the U.S government interfering as much and why I'm personally going purely crypto as well. I think I'm going to stick with my original plan of ordering gold/silver because for some reason they don't seem so keen to restrict trade on that just yet, must be the work of central banks.

wmcorless

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Quote from: EhVedadoOAnonimato on October 26, 2013, 12:32:34 PM

Quote from: wmcorless on October 24, 2013, 06:37:39 PM

Quote from: EhVedadoOAnonimato on October 12, 2013, 04:11:30 PM

The reason why multiple financial institutions outside the US are rejecting US citizens is called FATCA - Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act.

It is the responsibility of the US citizen to report their assets to the IRS held in foreign accounts, not the foreign company.

Unfortunately you're wrong. Please inform yourself about FATCA. This is capital controls done in a way never seen before.

Quote from: justusranvier on October 24, 2013, 06:45:11 PM

It is also the responsibility of all financial institutions that do business in the US to enforce various rules

I believe you don't even need to do business in the US directly. AFAIK FATCA is "recursive". To be compliant, you must ensure every institution you do business with is also compliant.

Quote from: wmcorless on October 24, 2013, 07:00:42 PM

... and each one I went to said no new accounts from the US. I was taken back by this because even if the US requested a foreign company to comply with anything, it is optional for the foreign company to do so.

No, in practice they don't really have a choice. The only choice is not to do business with any other financial institution in the current financial world, to create a "parallel financial world" that has no connections with the one which accesses the US market. Due to the weight of the US economy, that's just not a viable option.

You don't believe businessmen would just refuse money like that, do you? If they're doing so, there must be a strong reason.

Quote from: wmcorless on October 24, 2013, 07:00:42 PM

I didn't understand why they wouldn't want to do business with Americans.

Now you know, it's named FATCA.

Quote from: wmcorless on October 24, 2013, 07:00:42 PM

The government just wants to make sure they can catch the bad guys, and that's fine by me.

I hope, for your own good, that you don't truly believe this bullshit you wrote.

I think this is just conjecture on your part. The concept of jurisdiction would preclude any of these statements.
Can you substantiate any of this or show me the provisions?

leopard2

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Quote from: justusranvier on October 11, 2013, 11:33:04 PM

Quote from: tvbcof on October 11, 2013, 11:18:30 PM

'land of the free'

The USA is a fascistic, totalitarian dystopia with good PR.

Yup. Late justice. Their parents and grandparents attacked Germany to fight fascism (at least that is the fairy tale found in history books), but now Americans got fascism in their own country. The grandfather died in WW2, and his grandchild gets pepper sprayed by John Pike or worse. Formidable, from a twisted point of view.

I don't think the PR is so good, though. The entire world hates them, just that many countries depend on Uncle Sam's $$$ and don't say that openly. Clearly, there are powerful countries (mainly China) that are still worse than America, so a good relationship with the US is the lesser of two evils.

Of course nobody wants US citizens as customers anymore. They are like whores that are owned by a very ruthless pimp; nobody wants contact with that psychopath; I feel very sorry for every US person (who does not work for the government). Who will come and liberate you now, aliens?

It is almost unbelieveable that there are still so many people who try to become US citizens. That is not a benefit, it is a curse!!!!!!!! Embarrassed

justusranvier

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Quote from: EhVedadoOAnonimato on October 26, 2013, 12:32:34 PM

I believe you don't even need to do business in the US directly. AFAIK FATCA is "recursive". To be compliant, you must ensure every institution you do business with is also compliant.

I'd call it "viral regulation".

EhVedadoOAnonimato

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Quote from: wmcorless on October 24, 2013, 06:37:39 PM

Quote from: EhVedadoOAnonimato on October 12, 2013, 04:11:30 PM

The reason why multiple financial institutions outside the US are rejecting US citizens is called FATCA - Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act.

It is the responsibility of the US citizen to report their assets to the IRS held in foreign accounts, not the foreign company.

Unfortunately you're wrong. Please inform yourself about FATCA. This is capital controls done in a way never seen before.

Quote from: justusranvier on October 24, 2013, 06:45:11 PM

It is also the responsibility of all financial institutions that do business in the US to enforce various rules

I believe you don't even need to do business in the US directly. AFAIK FATCA is "recursive". To be compliant, you must ensure every institution you do business with is also compliant.

Quote from: wmcorless on October 24, 2013, 07:00:42 PM

... and each one I went to said no new accounts from the US. I was taken back by this because even if the US requested a foreign company to comply with anything, it is optional for the foreign company to do so.

No, in practice they don't really have a choice. The only choice is not to do business with any other financial institution in the current financial world, to create a "parallel financial world" that has no connections with the one which accesses the US market. Due to the weight of the US economy, that's just not a viable option.

You don't believe businessmen would just refuse money like that, do you? If they're doing so, there must be a strong reason.

Quote from: wmcorless on October 24, 2013, 07:00:42 PM

I didn't understand why they wouldn't want to do business with Americans.

Now you know, it's named FATCA.

Quote from: wmcorless on October 24, 2013, 07:00:42 PM

The government just wants to make sure they can catch the bad guys, and that's fine by me.

I hope, for your own good, that you don't truly believe this bullshit you wrote.

User705

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Quote from: cowandtea on October 12, 2013, 02:00:55 AM

Cause US government don't want people to keep bitcoin instead of USD

The US government or for that matter any modern government with a fiat money printer doesn't want the citizens to keep anything but their own currency since it's much easier to tax that way. When gold was used taxes had to be collected by armed collectors and it was hard since you physically had to take it. Now if a government wants to feed some special interest like army or social programs in exchange for votes it can just print some more money. They don't need to go house to house and collect the money from the citizens. That only works if everyone is holding their own fiat. But currently the main issue of why foreign companies don't accept USA customers is because the amount of paperwork required to do so costs more then what that customer is likely to bring in profit.

QuestionAuthority

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You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Because the thieving American government sucks the shit out of a hobos ass and they don't want to get raped by the American warmongers.

darkmule

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Quote from: wmcorless on October 24, 2013, 07:00:42 PM

The government just wants to make sure they can catch the bad guys, and that's fine by me.

I would question that their regulatory position is one of unalloyed altruism.

So far as I can tell, they want to protect the bad guys who pay for their campaigns from the rest of us, while protecting the markets of the bad guys who pay for their campaigns by making it as difficult as possible to access the U.S.-facing markets. They protect them from foreign corporations whether or not those foreigners are bad guys or not.

Topic: Why are some international payment companies not allowing Americans to join? (Read 5875 times)