Why bitcoins are dropping, and will continue to do so - page 4.

5grainsilver

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Quote from: Jack of Diamonds on July 06, 2011, 12:59:31 PM

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 06, 2011, 08:52:30 AM

Sucker rally on its way down. Bitcoin will be less than $1 within 6 months. The fundamentals will win in the end.

When you joined 2 weeks ago, you thought bitcoin was exciting. You tried to sell silver for bitcoins at over spot price but got no takers. Then you got bitter about being too late to the party, and went on a crusade against bitcoin,

Made a few predictions how it will fall to $10 within a week and how much it just sucks in general.

What gives? Do you lose out when someone else gets something? This seems like pure jealousy IMO.
You would kill to be an early miner or buyer, but you know that's not going to happen.

If you read my ad you will see that I wouldn't allow returns or escrow. Those are not my normal terms and pretty clearly imply that I don't believe bitcoin will hold its value. My opinion hasn't changed and I will still sell silver for bitcoins.

Jack of Diamonds

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Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 06, 2011, 08:52:30 AM

Sucker rally on its way down. Bitcoin will be less than $1 within 6 months. The fundamentals will win in the end.

When you joined 2 weeks ago, you thought bitcoin was exciting. You tried to sell silver for bitcoins at over spot price but got no takers. Then you got bitter about being too late to the party, and went on a crusade against bitcoin,

Made a few predictions how it will fall to $10 within a week and how much it just sucks in general.

What gives? Do you lose out when someone else gets something? This seems like pure jealousy IMO.
You would kill to be an early miner or buyer, but you know that's not going to happen.

Tronlet

full member

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Yeah, I was worried there for a while, but I knew it couldn't really last. Going back up now.

Dubs420

newbie

Activity: 20

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Awww what happened to your prediction? it broken

V4Vendettas

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Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 06, 2011, 08:52:30 AM

Sucker rally on its way down. Bitcoin will be less than $1 within 6 months. The fundamentals will win in the end.

We shall see we shall see.

Would rather it got to $1 soon as possible so I can buy in.
If everyone could keep on panic selling that would be grand and thanks in advance.

My gut tells me the sky isnt falling as fast as some seem to think.
My gut also told me once that I shouldnt have eaten a semi raw egg but only afterwards Angry

Who knows but it sure is fun to watch.

5grainsilver

member

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Sucker rally on its way down. Bitcoin will be less than $1 within 6 months. The fundamentals will win in the end.

V4Vendettas

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

I'm just seeing green did we just have a little rally ?

Cluster2k

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Quote from: molecular on July 05, 2011, 07:50:14 PM

Quote from: Nagle on July 05, 2011, 10:16:55 AM

Any merchant who accepts Bitcoins needs to cash out really fast. We're seeing 25% changes in a day, and 10% changes in 10 minutes. By the time a Bitcoin transaction is confirmed, it may have lost 10% of its value. You can't run a business on that.

Calculate with +3% lower rate, then, right after payment, automatically try to cash in the money at mtgox. If success: all is good, ship order, if unsuccessfull: tell user you can't sell at that price any more, offer new price or to abort order or return the BTC.

How is that easier than using a credit or debit card? The merchant would have to wait up to an hour to have the bitcoin confirmed, and then maybe another hour to transfer it to MtGox. If the price has moved down in those two hours, email the customer to demand more bitcoins. If the customer refuses then wait another couple of hours for the bitcoins to be returned to the customer. It's creating new problems while solving old ones.

hugolp

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Radix-The Decentralized Finance Protocol

Quote from: Oldminer on July 06, 2011, 06:26:37 AM

morning all,

I hope everyone's nice and relaxed and lubed up for today (in particular those of you with them shiny bitcoins still in your pockets...LOL)

Thank you. I have my lube in hand in case a girlfriend comes around. My bitcoins are well too. I dont care much about their price in dollars at this moment. But you boys have fun with the intraday.

Oldminer

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morning all,

I hope everyone's nice and relaxed and lubed up for today (in particular those of you with them shiny bitcoins still in your pockets...LOL)

AyeYo

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Quote from: foggyb on July 05, 2011, 03:35:22 PM

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 05, 2011, 01:18:56 PM

My bank account is insured by the Us government if my bank fails.

My bank reimburses me for fraud.

Heck I even get rebates for using my card to buy things.

If someone rips me off I can charge it back.

What do all these services have in common?

You have to pay into the system (and pay dearly i might add) to have these privileges Its not a freebie.

Doesn't cost me a cent to have those guarantees from the bank and CC companies. It costs only a tiny fraction of my tax money to have the FDIC guarantee from the government, money I'll be paying no matter what anyway.

The protection are worth every penny, as people getting raped out of their Bitcoins by scammers and shady exchanges are finding out.

5grainsilver

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Quote from: David M on July 05, 2011, 04:14:40 PM

Quote from: Nagle on July 05, 2011, 04:09:46 PM

Derivatives require a legal system that forces people to pay their debts and counter-parties strong enough to pay them.

From the Bitoption FAQ

"Is this Escrowed trading? YES. You are guaranteed to be able to execute once you've purchased a contract."

That's good enough for me.

Umm...I was reading the bitoption status thread earlier and it sounds like the owner has stopped responding, people are owed money etc.

A guarantee is only as good as the person making it. And an escrow is only worthwhile if it is by a trusted and reliable third party.

molecular

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Quote from: AyeYo on July 05, 2011, 12:20:04 PM

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 05, 2011, 11:06:35 AM

Quote from: kjj on July 05, 2011, 12:44:00 AM

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 04, 2011, 07:24:09 PM

2. To use as a transactional currency. This is the real appeal of the bitcoin. But there is no reason for someone to convert dollars to bitcoins and buy something unless it is illegal. It is inconvenient and provides zero protection against theft or fraud.

You've clearly never purchased anything using bitcoins. It beats the crap out of paypal or credit card purchases in the convenience department.

Yes but it offers zero protection against scam sellers. And paypal is super convenient for the buyer, just sucks for the seller.

That's another HUGE issue. If I pay someone in Bitcoins, I have zero recourse once they're sent. I can't even prove I sent the money to the seller because it's all anonymous.

If you can prove the merchant showed you a certain address, you can easily prove you sent money to that address by showing the transaction id.

The first part might be a problem, though, maybe a good merchant should sign a bill including the payment address so customers have proof?

molecular

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Quote from: Nagle on July 05, 2011, 10:16:55 AM

Any merchant who accepts Bitcoins needs to cash out really fast. We're seeing 25% changes in a day, and 10% changes in 10 minutes. By the time a Bitcoin transaction is confirmed, it may have lost 10% of its value. You can't run a business on that.

Calculate with +3% lower rate, then, right after payment, automatically try to cash in the money at mtgox. If success: all is good, ship order, if unsuccessfull: tell user you can't sell at that price any more, offer new price or to abort order or return the BTC.

molecular

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Quote from: Arrow on July 04, 2011, 08:50:39 PM

Quote from: molecular on July 04, 2011, 08:29:06 PM

Quote from: Arrow on July 04, 2011, 08:20:31 PM

Quote from: molecular on July 04, 2011, 08:17:24 PM

I must object. Hight supply is a problem if you want the price not to drop (which is implied by OP). A lot of miners decided to join when the price was at $30. They mostly joined for a quick buck, not because of bitcoin and it's features (see troll post above). These people have to throw their mined coins to the market, to recoup their investment and pay utility bills.

But people are continuing to mine, the network hasn't stopped running because a few decided to stop. Even after the cap is hit, transaction fees will get people to keep mining.

I didn't say anyone stopped mining. Mining is still profitable, even at an exchange rate of $5. I said many miners must sell their mined coins.

Just 3-4 months ago, one could mine 20 BTC per day with a €700 EUR machine. You need something like 20 GHash/s for that nowadays, that'll cost you $10.000, and if you look in this thread (watch out, hardware/cable porn): http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=7216.msg321184#msg321184, you can see that people are doing this.

I don't think they make such an investment with some "spare fiat money" they have laying around and then just keep the coins, they sell them.

This must be a misunderstanding, I'm not saying anything against bitcoin, and I never said it would fail.

Quote from: Arrow on July 04, 2011, 08:50:39 PM

Yes, miners sell coins. What is your point? How is this a mark against Bitcoins at all?

Of course miners sell coins, if they sell more, the price will fall: normal. Not a mark against bitcoin.

Quote from: Arrow on July 04, 2011, 08:50:39 PM

Oh no, gold miners sell gold!!! Gold will fail!!

Honestly, what point are you trying to make?

My point was to object to your saying that (high) supply is not a problem (for the bitcoin exchange rate, I assumed), which I objected to, because high supply will lower the price. Maybe I misunderstood and you meant supply is not a problem (for bitcoin itself)? If so: I agree.

David M

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Quote from: Nagle on July 05, 2011, 04:09:46 PM

Derivatives require a legal system that forces people to pay their debts and counter-parties strong enough to pay them.

From the Bitoption FAQ

"Is this Escrowed trading? YES. You are guaranteed to be able to execute once you've purchased a contract."

That's good enough for me.

Nagle

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Quote from: David M on July 05, 2011, 03:57:39 PM

Quote from: Nagle on July 05, 2011, 10:16:55 AM

Any merchant who accepts Bitcoins needs to cash out really fast. We're seeing 25% changes in a day, and 10% changes in 10 minutes. By the time a Bitcoin transaction is confirmed, it may have lost 10% of its value. You can't run a business on that.

Someone needs to learn about derivatives.

Derivatives require a legal system that forces people to pay their debts and counter-parties strong enough to pay them.

David M

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Nagle on July 05, 2011, 10:16:55 AM

Any merchant who accepts Bitcoins needs to cash out really fast. We're seeing 25% changes in a day, and 10% changes in 10 minutes. By the time a Bitcoin transaction is confirmed, it may have lost 10% of its value. You can't run a business on that.

Someone needs to learn about derivatives.

Example:

Shop A pays $US to suppliers with 30 day terms.
Shop A buys a Put expiring as close to the term as possible at the current market rate (X)
Shop A accepts Bitcoins.

Scenario 1: Bitcoin rises in value. -> Shop A lets the Put expire or sells it.
Scenario 2: Bitcoin falls in value. -> Shop A takes the Put to delivery and is guaranteed price X

The maximum cost to Shop A is the price of the Put regardless of price movement.

foggyb

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Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 05, 2011, 01:18:56 PM

My bank account is insured by the Us government if my bank fails.

My bank reimburses me for fraud.

Heck I even get rebates for using my card to buy things.

If someone rips me off I can charge it back.

What do all these services have in common?

You have to pay into the system (and pay dearly i might add) to have these privileges Its not a freebie.

Nagle

legendary

Activity: 1204

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Quote

silver can't be hacked?

Oh? See Silver Thursday.

Topic: Why bitcoins are dropping, and will continue to do so - page 4. (Read 28139 times)