Why bitcoins are dropping, and will continue to do so - page 5.

cocodapuf

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Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 05, 2011, 01:36:36 PM

Quote from: piramida on July 05, 2011, 01:30:58 PM

how is bitcoin different from silver? when you give your silver to someone, it's gone. no proof, no chargeback. just like bitcoin. your argument was?

Not really. Silver can't be hacked or lost due to tech problems or power outages. It has real world uses that guarantee it will always hold some value. It doesn't depend on a computer for it to exist.

Whoa, silver can't be hacked? If you were to keep your hard earned silver in your underwear drawer and then keep your back door unlocked, what's stopping someone from walking in and grabbing it. Likewise, if you leave your wallet in your windows user folder, unencrypted, with your firewall down, what's stopping someone?

People, this is digital cash... only people with way too much money actually carry 5 grand in their wallet, put that stuff in the bank man. For your own sake try to carry under $100 in your everyday wallet (digital or otherwise). Unless you can get a 3rd party to secure your coin for you, managing a BTC savings account on your own is a lot like keeping a briefcase full of money; yes it certainly does carry with it serious security concerns.

piramida

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Borsche

And when the internet will be gone and the world will collapse into chaos, your precious silver bars would be worth next to nothing. As for stealing, hacking a computer or breaking into the house is about the same. Easier to protect from a hacking attempt, for me, than from a burglar - you can't unplug your house as you can your BTC wallet.

kjj

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Quote from: Ratman2050 on July 05, 2011, 02:04:34 PM

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 05, 2011, 01:36:36 PM

Quote from: piramida on July 05, 2011, 01:30:58 PM

how is bitcoin different from silver? when you give your silver to someone, it's gone. no proof, no chargeback. just like bitcoin. your argument was?

Not really. Silver can't be hacked or lost due to tech problems or power outages. It has real world uses that guarantee it will always hold some value. It doesn't depend on a computer for it to exist.

No one can predict the future with 100% certainty, but the probability of the internet disappearing is slim to none. In most developed countries power outages are rare. That's what laptops and phones are for. Not only that, but even if something like a hurricane took out an entire state, the rest of the world would be fine.

If you think that the internet might go away some day, make sure that you are spending more money on ammo than on silver.

Ratman2050

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Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 05, 2011, 01:36:36 PM

Quote from: piramida on July 05, 2011, 01:30:58 PM

how is bitcoin different from silver? when you give your silver to someone, it's gone. no proof, no chargeback. just like bitcoin. your argument was?

Not really. Silver can't be hacked or lost due to tech problems or power outages. It has real world uses that guarantee it will always hold some value. It doesn't depend on a computer for it to exist.

No one can predict the future with 100% certainty, but the probability of the internet disappearing is slim to none. In most developed countries power outages are rare. That's what laptops and phones are for. Not only that, but even if something like a hurricane took out an entire state, the rest of the world would be fine.

dacoinminster

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Rational Exuberance

Here's a cartoon showing what is going on:

Just replace "a stock" with "bitcoins".

5grainsilver

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Quote from: piramida on July 05, 2011, 01:30:58 PM

how is bitcoin different from silver? when you give your silver to someone, it's gone. no proof, no chargeback. just like bitcoin. your argument was?

Not really. Silver can't be hacked or lost due to tech problems or power outages. It has real world uses that guarantee it will always hold some value. It doesn't depend on a computer for it to exist.

piramida

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Borsche

how is bitcoin different from silver? when you give your silver to someone, it's gone. no proof, no chargeback. just like bitcoin. your argument was?

5grainsilver

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Quote from: foggyb on July 05, 2011, 12:48:51 PM

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 04, 2011, 07:24:09 PM

Investors like security and the bitcoin is pretty much the opposite of secure. They also like secure exchanges and the bitcoin exchanges are pretty shady compared to mainstream exchanges. That is kind of an understatement really.

Bitcoin investing as secure as your worst security practices. Just like good ol' dollars. If you don't protect your credit and bank cards, someone will clean out your account.

You're only half right about shady exchanges. Turns out its not that difficult to avoid being a MTGOX clone. CAVirtex is a new Canadian exchange that is fully government compliant, professionally run (by actual businessmen) and not shady in the least. The trade volume pegs CAVIRTEX at #4 among all exchanges.

Sorry for being such a buzzkill.

You are way off.

My bank account is insured by the Us government if my bank fails.

My bank reimburses me for fraud.

Heck I even get rebates for using my card to buy things.

If someone rips me off I can charge it back.

Bitcoin offers zero protection. I keep some money in silver. At least someone has to come to my house to steal it. And I can still access it during a power outage.

Bitcoin is a cool idea but has far too many flaws to be anything more than a cool payment method.

AyeYo

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Quote from: dannickherpderp on July 05, 2011, 12:50:02 PM

Quote from: AyeYo on July 05, 2011, 12:20:04 PM

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 05, 2011, 11:06:35 AM

Quote from: kjj on July 05, 2011, 12:44:00 AM

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 04, 2011, 07:24:09 PM

2. To use as a transactional currency. This is the real appeal of the bitcoin. But there is no reason for someone to convert dollars to bitcoins and buy something unless it is illegal. It is inconvenient and provides zero protection against theft or fraud.

You've clearly never purchased anything using bitcoins. It beats the crap out of paypal or credit card purchases in the convenience department.

Yes but it offers zero protection against scam sellers. And paypal is super convenient for the buyer, just sucks for the seller.

That's another HUGE issue. If I pay someone in ~~Bitcoins~~ cash, I have zero recourse once they're sent. I can't even prove I sent the money to the seller because it's all anonymous.

The relevant difference being that if I'm paying in cash, they're placing the actual product in my hand.

foggyb

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A. Don't send money to complete strangers.
B. Use services that protect your purchase.

WOW this is just like using dollars! Who knew! Shocked

dannickherpderp

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Quote from: AyeYo on July 05, 2011, 12:20:04 PM

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 05, 2011, 11:06:35 AM

Quote from: kjj on July 05, 2011, 12:44:00 AM

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 04, 2011, 07:24:09 PM

2. To use as a transactional currency. This is the real appeal of the bitcoin. But there is no reason for someone to convert dollars to bitcoins and buy something unless it is illegal. It is inconvenient and provides zero protection against theft or fraud.

You've clearly never purchased anything using bitcoins. It beats the crap out of paypal or credit card purchases in the convenience department.

Yes but it offers zero protection against scam sellers. And paypal is super convenient for the buyer, just sucks for the seller.

That's another HUGE issue. If I pay someone in ~~Bitcoins~~ cash, I have zero recourse once they're sent. I can't even prove I sent the money to the seller because it's all anonymous.

foggyb

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Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 04, 2011, 07:24:09 PM

Investors like security and the bitcoin is pretty much the opposite of secure. They also like secure exchanges and the bitcoin exchanges are pretty shady compared to mainstream exchanges. That is kind of an understatement really.

Bitcoin investing as secure as your worst security practices. Just like good ol' dollars. If you don't protect your credit and bank cards, someone will clean out your account.

You're only half right about shady exchanges. Turns out its not that difficult to avoid being a MTGOX clone. CAVirtex is a new Canadian exchange that is fully government compliant, professionally run (by actual businessmen) and not shady in the least. The trade volume pegs CAVIRTEX at #4 among all exchanges.

Sorry for being such a buzzkill.

AyeYo

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Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 05, 2011, 11:06:35 AM

Quote from: kjj on July 05, 2011, 12:44:00 AM

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 04, 2011, 07:24:09 PM

2. To use as a transactional currency. This is the real appeal of the bitcoin. But there is no reason for someone to convert dollars to bitcoins and buy something unless it is illegal. It is inconvenient and provides zero protection against theft or fraud.

You've clearly never purchased anything using bitcoins. It beats the crap out of paypal or credit card purchases in the convenience department.

Yes but it offers zero protection against scam sellers. And paypal is super convenient for the buyer, just sucks for the seller.

That's another HUGE issue. If I pay someone in Bitcoins, I have zero recourse once they're sent. I can't even prove I sent the money to the seller because it's all anonymous.

crunchiness

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Quote from: ?? on ??

http://i.imgur.com/oOsVu.png

That's a good point!

5grainsilver

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Quote from: kjj on July 05, 2011, 12:44:00 AM

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 04, 2011, 07:24:09 PM

2. To use as a transactional currency. This is the real appeal of the bitcoin. But there is no reason for someone to convert dollars to bitcoins and buy something unless it is illegal. It is inconvenient and provides zero protection against theft or fraud.

You've clearly never purchased anything using bitcoins. It beats the crap out of paypal or credit card purchases in the convenience department.

Yes but it offers zero protection against scam sellers. And paypal is super convenient for the buyer, just sucks for the seller.

Cluster2k

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Quote from: Nagle on July 05, 2011, 10:16:55 AM

Quote from: AyeYo on July 05, 2011, 08:10:17 AM

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 04, 2011, 09:19:56 PM

Just because merchants are accepting bitcoin doesn't mean people are going out and buying bitcoins to spend at said merchants. And guess what those merchants are doing a soon as they receive bitcoins as payment for goods and services?

Bingo

Any merchant who accepts Bitcoins needs to cash out really fast. We're seeing 25% changes in a day, and 10% changes in 10 minutes. By the time a Bitcoin transaction is confirmed, it may have lost 10% of its value. You can't run a business on that.

And the faster they convert to their nation's preferred currency, the faster bitcoin will fall in value. Speculators and investors would see keen interest to sell as a signal that the price is going down. They then wait for the price to fall. Those people using bitcoin for real commerce are no doubt vastly outnumbered at the moment by miners and speculators willing to sell.

I'm watching bitcoin's price with interest as it falls through the $14 and $13 marks. It's still going, at around $12.50 as I write this. It may be partly related to the long weekend in the USA. Bitcoin's price has historically fallen on weekends. But something feels different this time. Everyone expects the cycle to occur, and when it becomes common knowledge it's almost by definition not going to happen again for the same reasons.

Nagle

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Quote from: AyeYo on July 05, 2011, 08:10:17 AM

Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 04, 2011, 09:19:56 PM

Just because merchants are accepting bitcoin doesn't mean people are going out and buying bitcoins to spend at said merchants. And guess what those merchants are doing a soon as they receive bitcoins as payment for goods and services?

Bingo

Any merchant who accepts Bitcoins needs to cash out really fast. We're seeing 25% changes in a day, and 10% changes in 10 minutes. By the time a Bitcoin transaction is confirmed, it may have lost 10% of its value. You can't run a business on that.

checkmate

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I would buy games, hardware, etc. with my Bitcoins if it was available in my country (Germany) - if there is a shop, I will buy my stuff with my BTC from there... no question.

But for now, keeping them or selling them is my only option - I do it for the fun anyways...

AyeYo

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Quote from: 5grainsilver on July 04, 2011, 09:19:56 PM

Just because merchants are accepting bitcoin doesn't mean people are going out and buying bitcoins to spend at said merchants. And guess what those merchants are doing a soon as they receive bitcoins as payment for goods and services?

Bingo

piramida

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Borsche

This, #1, is a complete bullshit assertion. Investors do invest in the risky assets, all the time. No risk = no payout. BTC is just that, a very volatile risky investment which you can add to your portfolio in very smallish percentage. Investors which invest in government bonds only never will make any money.

#2, as pointed out, could not be further from truth, too. Yes it's shady while the currency stabilizes, but just look at what kind of businesses were built around the gold rush sites in CA, Australia, and so on. Every currency has it's infancy, and big legitimate businesses will never ever start accepting a new currency right away - only small shops and underground operations. It has to grow, and that is the only way it will. As for convenience, blah, there's nothing more convenient right now.

Topic: Why bitcoins are dropping, and will continue to do so - page 5. (Read 28139 times)