Author

Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion? - page 442. (Read 901341 times)

legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 1254
Thread-puller extraordinaire
May 11, 2015, 11:31:35 AM
#91
Can Any one tell me
Why Islam is fastest GROWING RELIGION?
10% of Europe will be Muslim in around 30 years?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/muslim-population-growth-christians-religion-pew

I'll take this one!

Ummm . . . is it because the brain-washing symbolic rituals are carried out far more intensely and regularly than with any other religion?

BTW, if 10% of the EU will be Muslim in 30 years, 70% will be atheists. It's called education.
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 1654
Enterapp Pre-Sale Live - bit.ly/3UrMCWI
May 11, 2015, 11:29:43 AM
#90
Can Any one tell me
Why Islam is fastest GROWING RELIGION?
10% of Europe will be Muslim in around 30 years?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/muslim-population-growth-christians-religion-pew
legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 1254
Thread-puller extraordinaire
May 11, 2015, 11:29:16 AM
#89
@cryptodevil: I don't wish to argue with you anymore as neither I can understand you, nor you can understand me.

I understand you perfectly well and I have conveyed sufficient proof of that understanding so, no, you can't lump me in with your ignorance as an excuse to duck out of the challenge.

I condemned you because you abused me earlier with the F word but I guess you love using such words so go ahead as that gives you peace. The fact that you aren't sorry for the F word, it proves what kind of a person are you.

No it only proves what kind of person you think I am, big fucking difference.


I am superstitious, I accept it, as I believe in God that I haven't seen in my life. " good people to do evil things, that takes religion." OK. I believe that person who was an atheist was supposed to be a good person earlier but he turned evil without any religion.

Yeah, you seem to struggle to be able to comprehend basic reasoning, which isn't much of a surprise given you are a theist, but let me give you a little pointer, if good person does something evil, then he isn't a good person. Do you get it now?
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1094
May 11, 2015, 11:15:15 AM
#88
Are you referring to dogs loving nobody except themselves? If this is the case, then this is wrong.

I'm referring to the people  Undecided


Ah, so what your saying is that we are all capable of great love and hate because that is what humans can do? And just as only some Christians hate dogs, some atheists see religion as a positive social force?  Makes sense to me.

Yeah, makes sense to me too. I haven't criticized atheists for their belief but just criticized those who abuse others because of their belief.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
May 11, 2015, 11:08:02 AM
#87
Also why do Christians hate dogs? My former neighbor was a Christian dog hater, classic. Why all the hate for dogs?

I know of Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Parsi and atheists also who hate dogs.

They hate dogs as they can't bear animals to be innocent and good in heart as they can never be good at heart. They hate dogs as dogs don't have a mind to think evil unlike them. They hate dogs because they love nobody except themselves.  Smiley

Ah, so what your saying is that we are all capable of great love and hate because that is what humans can do? And just as only some Christians hate dogs, some atheists see religion as a positive social force?  Makes sense to me.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
May 11, 2015, 11:07:13 AM
#86
I pulled this from a combination of .edu and other credible sources.  It's set in the context of his commentary on the Problem of Induction.  My point in referencing his comments wasn't in any way to discuss his personal religious beliefs, which are irrelevant to the discussion, anyway.  Rather, it was simply to correct the poster's statements that it is irrational to believe in something without physical evidence.  Adhering to this point of view must also lead one to the conclusion that it is irrational to believe in the validity of scientific epistemology.

To reach a conclusion that "believing in 'this' god is irrational" requires a philosophical basis.  Because science is a mere philosophical subset, it isn't good enough to assume it has the final say.  We need to defer to Philosophy in a broader sense to determine whether there is a way to determine what is and what is not logically necessary.  If there is a philosophical basis by you can conclude God is logically impossible, or even that it impossible to know whether God exists, then you are free to make that conclusion.  However, the reverse seems to be true, i.e. Intelligent Design is a logical necessity for reality's existence.
I see. Could you please clearly state your stance towards the topic? I do not want to be mistaken. I concur; currently there is nothing that is good nor developed enough to have a final say in things.

Yes He is Muslim, But he spoke with Reference you can check Bible chapter 1 to prove whether he is wrong or right? If you found that he wrong then let me inform here.
Without a tl;dr version I'm not going to do anything.

Also why do Christians hate dogs? My former neighbor was a Christian dog hater, classic. Why all the hate for dogs?

I know of Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Parsi and atheists also who hate dogs.

They hate dogs as they can't bear animals to be innocent and good in heart as they can never be good at heart. They hate dogs as dogs don't have a mind to think evil unlike them. They hate dogs because they love nobody except themselves.  Smiley
Are you referring to dogs loving nobody except themselves? If this is the case, then this is wrong.
Or are you referring to the people?
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1094
May 11, 2015, 11:03:56 AM
#85
Also why do Christians hate dogs? My former neighbor was a Christian dog hater, classic. Why all the hate for dogs?

I know of Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Parsi and atheists also who hate dogs.

They hate dogs as they can't bear animals to be innocent and good in heart as they can never be good at heart. They hate dogs as dogs don't have a mind to think evil unlike them. They hate dogs because they love nobody except themselves.  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
May 11, 2015, 10:58:58 AM
#84
Also why do Christians hate dogs? My former neighbor was a Christian dog hater, classic. Why all the hate for dogs?
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 1654
Enterapp Pre-Sale Live - bit.ly/3UrMCWI
May 11, 2015, 10:54:52 AM
#83
I invite Atheist to watch this video if they have time or when they get time, Recommended.

Scientific Facts Atheists Must Know Why Islam Is The Truth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJzIm9v67w8
So you call a Muslim to tell me why Islam is the Truth?  Roll Eyes
How about a tl;dr version. The video is too long. I don't feel like wasting time on "scientific facts".

Yes He is Muslim, But he spoke with Reference you can check Bible chapter 1 to prove whether he is wrong or right? If you found that he wrong then let me inform here.

legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
May 11, 2015, 10:49:45 AM
#82
+1, David Hume and Kant had similar views. Humans are rational beings, believing in a "god" without any objective reason(Evidence) to is irrational, and disregards the entire concept of having the ability to reason and think. Theists are quite possibly the dumbest people on the planet. It's almost as if they "want" to give away their ability to reason, like mindless zombies.
I think you missed some of what Hume stated, however.  If Hume concluded that "believing in a 'god' without any [evidence]...is irrational," then he contradicted himself.

Hume rightfully pointed out that Empiricism, and therefore Science, have non-empirical, unscientific foundations.  Specifically, the assumptions that give the Scientific Method validity are entirely philosophical, e.g. how the rules of sound inference and knowledge of the limitations of inductive reasoning give validity to the assumption that we live in a Positivistic Universe, an assumption that is absolutely required for Science to work at all, and for which there is both no evidence nor a means of empirical falsification.

With regards to religion, Hume would say that a lack of evidence is not a strong enough basis (actually, it carries no weight whatsoever) to reject theism specifically because one who does would also be forced to reject the epistemological underpinnings of science itself.  Yes, it is true there is no physical evidence for God, but because there is also no physical evidence for the validity of the scientific method, then we must defer back to Philosophy to establish the validity/invalidity of both. In other words, if one can make a total scientific departure to validate scientific epistemology (note: Science is merely a philosophical subset), then why cannot one make the same departure for theism?

On a side note, it's my personal observation that the unbelievably-vast majority of religious debates are a priori invalid for the aforementioned reasons.  Atheists make bullshit claims that it is silly to believe in God due to a lack of evidence (claims which are often supported by equally-bullshit analogies like the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Russell's Teapot which hold no weight whatsoever), and then theists, thinking that these invalid arguments are actually credible, entertain them and provide bullshit rebuttals by hopelessly trying to cite evidence that supports the existence of God.

When it comes down to it, religious debates set in an empirical context are invalid and a waste of time, and people just spew a bunch of hot air.
You're just interpreting this for your own argument. Did you base your information off of Google?  I actually have partially studies Hume and I have a book lying next to me.
Even though he wrote a lot about religion, his views seem a bit unclear. This is why it is open to interpretation. He stance was agnostic and skeptical. I'm not sure why people brought him up, he was definitely not an atheist. He did claim that reason is not up to the task to be the only guide in our life.
Believing in this "god" is irrational. I'm talking about the "gods" from the current religions. Theists are very deluded.

-snip

I know what the world is facing today because of religion and hence I just disregard this term. There are no atheists or theists in life but only Good and Bad people. While I love and respect the former, I dislike the latter. What kind of a person are you?
The underlying implication here must be atheists are bad. Most of the people that were defined as "bad", were defined by a set of ignorant rules, that were set by various religions.


I pulled this from a combination of .edu and other credible sources.  It's set in the context of his commentary on the Problem of Induction.  My point in referencing his comments wasn't in any way to discuss his personal religious beliefs, which are irrelevant to the discussion, anyway.  Rather, it was simply to correct the poster's statements that it is irrational to believe in something without physical evidence.  Adhering to this point of view must also lead one to the conclusion that it is irrational to believe in the validity of scientific epistemology.

To reach a conclusion that "believing in 'this' god is irrational" requires a philosophical basis.  Because science is a mere philosophical subset, it isn't good enough to assume it has the final say.  We need to defer to Philosophy in a broader sense to determine whether there is a way to determine what is and what is not logically necessary.  If there is a philosophical basis by you can conclude God is logically impossible, or even that it impossible to know whether God exists, then you are free to make that conclusion.  However, the reverse seems to be true, i.e. Intelligent Design is a logical necessity for reality's existence.
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1094
May 11, 2015, 10:17:08 AM
#81
-snip

I know what the world is facing today because of religion and hence I just disregard this term. There are no atheists or theists in life but only Good and Bad people. While I love and respect the former, I dislike the latter. What kind of a person are you?
The underlying implication here must be atheists are bad. Most of the people that were defined as "bad", were defined by a set of ignorant rules, that were set by various religions.


Read the statement again: There are no atheists or theists in life but only Good and Bad people.

When did I call atheists "bad"? You just interpreted the statement as you wanted to. You cannot be good if you are an atheist or bad if you are an atheist. You just have not to believe in doing wrong to others irrespective of your belief.

I guess atheists must be not believing in God right? That again is a belief that God doesn't exist. There's nothing wrong in that belief but just be a Good person if you believe in humanity. I don't generalize good or bad people based on their religion or their ignorant rules because there are many who believe in nothing but doing bad to others.

I know a person who doesn't believe in God and is an atheist but he believes in killing human beings and he killed a person because the person was mentally unstable and dropped his paint bottle. He kept beating him up till he died bleeding on the stairs. No person whether or not they believe in God helped the person while dying. Now what's wrong in the belief? It was because that person who killed the other one was BAD. He believed in killing others and hence his belief of God not existing did not help in anyways.

I also know a person whose mother is a firm believer of God. Her son hung a child of 1 and a half year old on the fan because he was crying. Where did his mother's belief help in that case? Did his religion tell him to hang that innocent child on the fan? He was a BAD person and hence committed a crime.

One just cannot claim that atheists are good or bad and theists are good or bad. They want to do good/bad and hence they do it.


@cryptodevil: I don't wish to argue with you anymore as neither I can understand you, nor you can understand me. I condemned you because you abused me earlier with the F word but I guess you love using such words so go ahead as that gives you peace. The fact that you aren't sorry for the F word, it proves what kind of a person are you. I still won't abuse you no matter you use 1000s of such words because of my upbringing and education. I am still talking to you politely.

I am superstitious, I accept it, as I believe in God that I haven't seen in my life. " good people to do evil things, that takes religion." OK. I believe that person who was an atheist was supposed to be a good person earlier but he turned evil without any religion.
legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 1254
Thread-puller extraordinaire
May 11, 2015, 10:09:09 AM
#80
You have done nothing good in life but just know how to abuse. See the difference between a person who isn't an atheist and a person who is.

Yes, an atheist criticizes you for posting yet another typical theist whine about how you should be respected for your belief and you respond by declaring that he has done nothing good in his life. I do see the difference quite clearly, thank you.

I don't believe in superstitions cause I am literate and not an illiterate dumb person.
Quote
Superstition is the belief in supernatural causality—that one event causes another without any natural process linking the two events—such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, prophecies, etc

Seems you're not quite as literate as you believe yourself to be.



You don't seem to understand what I said. I don't believe in any religion but I believe in God (the almighty).

:triplefacepalm:

You keep telling me how literate you are, yet you didn't know the meaning of the word 'superstition' and you clearly don't know the meaning of the word 'theism' or 'theist', either.

I'm thinking you clearly believe yourself to be more intelligent than you actually are. Narcissism is prevalent among those who believe themselves to be part of some 'divine plan', so that probably explains it.

I'm open to healthy discussions

No you're not, that's dishonest. What you actually mean is that you're open to discussions that maintain undeserved respect and deference towards your infantile belief system. I'd be lying if I pretended to have respect for your belief system, which I cannot do because it is intellectually dishonest. Are you saying you want me to lie for you?

You haven't done anything good in life besides abusing that's what I meant.

LOL, seriously, that you keep quoting this as though it means something other than you generally condemning me as having done nothing good in my entire life while being utterly absent any information about my life other than the brief moment when you encountered my criticism of you for posting what is typical theist whiny bullshit about expecting respect for your almighty imagination.

There are no atheists or theists in life but only Good and Bad people.

Quote from: Steven Weinberg
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
May 11, 2015, 10:00:47 AM
#79
+1, David Hume and Kant had similar views. Humans are rational beings, believing in a "god" without any objective reason(Evidence) to is irrational, and disregards the entire concept of having the ability to reason and think. Theists are quite possibly the dumbest people on the planet. It's almost as if they "want" to give away their ability to reason, like mindless zombies.
I think you missed some of what Hume stated, however.  If Hume concluded that "believing in a 'god' without any [evidence]...is irrational," then he contradicted himself.

Hume rightfully pointed out that Empiricism, and therefore Science, have non-empirical, unscientific foundations.  Specifically, the assumptions that give the Scientific Method validity are entirely philosophical, e.g. how the rules of sound inference and knowledge of the limitations of inductive reasoning give validity to the assumption that we live in a Positivistic Universe, an assumption that is absolutely required for Science to work at all, and for which there is both no evidence nor a means of empirical falsification.

With regards to religion, Hume would say that a lack of evidence is not a strong enough basis (actually, it carries no weight whatsoever) to reject theism specifically because one who does would also be forced to reject the epistemological underpinnings of science itself.  Yes, it is true there is no physical evidence for God, but because there is also no physical evidence for the validity of the scientific method, then we must defer back to Philosophy to establish the validity/invalidity of both. In other words, if one can make a total scientific departure to validate scientific epistemology (note: Science is merely a philosophical subset), then why cannot one make the same departure for theism?

On a side note, it's my personal observation that the unbelievably-vast majority of religious debates are a priori invalid for the aforementioned reasons.  Atheists make bullshit claims that it is silly to believe in God due to a lack of evidence (claims which are often supported by equally-bullshit analogies like the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Russell's Teapot which hold no weight whatsoever), and then theists, thinking that these invalid arguments are actually credible, entertain them and provide bullshit rebuttals by hopelessly trying to cite evidence that supports the existence of God.

When it comes down to it, religious debates set in an empirical context are invalid and a waste of time, and people just spew a bunch of hot air.
You're just interpreting this for your own argument. Did you base your information off of Google?  I actually have partially studies Hume and I have a book lying next to me.
Even though he wrote a lot about religion, his views seem a bit unclear. This is why it is open to interpretation. He stance was agnostic and skeptical. I'm not sure why people brought him up, he was definitely not an atheist. He did claim that reason is not up to the task to be the only guide in our life.
Believing in this "god" is irrational. I'm talking about the "gods" from the current religions. Theists are very deluded.

-snip

I know what the world is facing today because of religion and hence I just disregard this term. There are no atheists or theists in life but only Good and Bad people. While I love and respect the former, I dislike the latter. What kind of a person are you?
The underlying implication here must be atheists are bad. Most of the people that were defined as "bad", were defined by a set of ignorant rules, that were set by various religions.
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1094
May 11, 2015, 09:48:17 AM
#78
You have done nothing good in life but just know how to abuse. See the difference between a person who isn't an atheist and a person who is.

Yes, an atheist criticizes you for posting yet another typical theist whine about how you should be respected for your belief and you respond by declaring that he has done nothing good in his life. I do see the difference quite clearly, thank you.

I don't believe in superstitions cause I am literate and not an illiterate dumb person.
Quote
Superstition is the belief in supernatural causality—that one event causes another without any natural process linking the two events—such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, prophecies, etc

Seems you're not quite as literate as you believe yourself to be.



You don't seem to understand what I said. I don't believe in any religion but I believe in God (the almighty). I believe that there is one Good person in this world who is watching me and cares for me else what I see today is just inhumanity and hatred.

I'm open to healthy discussions but not abuses Sorry. I too don't like the claims that people make by saying my religion is the best and their religion is the best. I just believe in God that's it. For me all Gods are one and I love him and believe in him as a Good person.

You haven't done anything good in life besides abusing that's what I meant. I did not abuse you or hurt you. You did and yes, if your belief teaches you to abuse, that's wrong whether you may consider it your right. You could have replied politely but you chose the opposite so what should I think then. Abusive words lead to nothing but hate and more abuses which I don't believe in.

I just take out the Good things of life and try to be a good human being. If I am called an theist, mad person, or sinner for that purpose, no problem. I'm happy cause I do no harm to others till they harm me. I don't hate anyone but just hate the bad things they do to others no matter what they believe in or not. I don't like to mock others for their belief unless they cause harm to others because of that. You can believe in a stone as a stone or a stone as a God. Don't hurt anyone or harm anyone. That's it.

I know what the world is facing today because of religion and hence I just disregard this term. There are no atheists or theists in life but only Good and Bad people. While I love and respect the former, I dislike the latter. What kind of a person are you?

legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 1254
Thread-puller extraordinaire
May 11, 2015, 09:33:52 AM
#77
You have done nothing good in life but just know how to abuse. See the difference between a person who isn't an atheist and a person who is.

Yes, an atheist criticizes you for posting yet another typical theist whine about how you should be respected for your belief and you respond by declaring that he has done nothing good in his life. I do see the difference quite clearly, thank you.

I don't believe in superstitions cause I am literate and not an illiterate dumb person.
Quote
Superstition is the belief in supernatural causality—that one event causes another without any natural process linking the two events—such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, prophecies, etc

Seems you're not quite as literate as you believe yourself to be.

legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
May 11, 2015, 09:30:08 AM
#76
You ask why rational people try to engage theists into critical thinking, then go on to detail how you, like most atheists, began as a child being conditioned to believe the theist myths of your parents until you discovered the skills of critical thinking and objective reasoning.

So you prove that theists can break their conditioning but then question why we bother trying to free the minds of others who, like us once, were brainwashed.



+1, David Hume and Kant had similar views. Humans are rational beings, believing in a "god" without any objective reason(Evidence) to is irrational, and disregards the entire concept of having the ability to reason and think. Theists are quite possibly the dumbest people on the planet. It's almost as if they "want" to give away their ability to reason, like mindless zombies.

I think you missed some of what Hume stated, however.  If Hume concluded that "believing in a 'god' without any [evidence]...is irrational," then he contradicted himself.

Hume rightfully pointed out that Empiricism, and therefore Science, have non-empirical, unscientific foundations.  Specifically, the assumptions that give the Scientific Method validity are entirely philosophical, e.g. how the rules of sound inference and knowledge of the limitations of inductive reasoning give validity to the assumption that we live in a Positivistic Universe, an assumption that is absolutely required for Science to work at all, and for which there is both no evidence nor a means of empirical falsification.

With regards to religion, Hume would say that a lack of evidence is not a strong enough basis (actually, it carries no weight whatsoever) to reject theism specifically because one who does would also be forced to reject the epistemological underpinnings of science itself.  Yes, it is true there is no physical evidence for God, but because there is also no physical evidence for the validity of the scientific method, then we must defer back to Philosophy to establish the validity/invalidity of both. In other words, if one can make a total scientific departure to validate scientific epistemology (note: Science is merely a philosophical subset), then why cannot one make the same departure for theism?

On a side note, it's my personal observation that the unbelievably-vast majority of religious debates are a priori invalid for the aforementioned reasons.  Atheists make bullshit claims that it is silly to believe in God due to a lack of evidence (claims which are often supported by equally-bullshit analogies like the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Russell's Teapot which hold no weight whatsoever), and then theists, thinking that these invalid arguments are actually credible, entertain them and provide bullshit rebuttals by hopelessly trying to cite evidence that supports the existence of God.

When it comes down to it, religious debates set in an empirical context are invalid and a waste of time, and people just spew a bunch of hot air.
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1094
May 11, 2015, 09:07:29 AM
#75
I am noticing that atheists not only hate religion and God, they also hate those who believe in it. Everyone has the right to believe in what they want to and forcing your thoughts on others and degrading the name of God, you don't prove that you are a great person. Just learn to respect those who believe/don't believe in it.

This should be a healthy discussion and not a discussion where others just mock each other and their beliefs as well.

Oh fuck off with your typical theist, "I should be respected!!!11!!!" bullshit.

Just because you have enjoyed thousands of years of theist privilege and are no longer receiving the same degree of deference and reverence, it does not equate to 'hate'.

I am so sick of reading article after article on theists complaining about how they are being persecuted by secular society when, the truth is, your 'religious right' ends where my nose begins and you don't like that we, rightly, ridicule your superstitions and poisonous beliefs.

Grow up.



Sorry but I cannot stoop to your level and start abusing. May be this is how I was brought up by my parents who taught me to give and get respect and I am proud of what I am today. If I don't do good to anyone, I don't even think bad unlike you who call yourself an atheist but only know one thing, that's to abuse.

Glad that you don't believe in God. You have done nothing good in life but just know how to abuse. See the difference between a person who isn't an atheist and a person who is.

Yes I have poisonous beliefs of doing good to others and not just sit back and spreading hatred. I don't believe in superstitions cause I am literate and not an illiterate dumb person.

That's why I said to have a healthy discussion but I guess I was talking to people who just believe in one thing "HATRED"   Lips sealed
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
May 11, 2015, 09:06:43 AM
#74
Difficult to say it better ...

“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches  appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.” — Thomas Paine

legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 1254
Thread-puller extraordinaire
May 11, 2015, 08:57:00 AM
#73
I am noticing that atheists not only hate religion and God, they also hate those who believe in it. Everyone has the right to believe in what they want to and forcing your thoughts on others and degrading the name of God, you don't prove that you are a great person. Just learn to respect those who believe/don't believe in it.

This should be a healthy discussion and not a discussion where others just mock each other and their beliefs as well.

Oh fuck off with your typical theist, "I should be respected!!!11!!!" bullshit.

Just because you have enjoyed thousands of years of theist privilege and are no longer receiving the same degree of deference and reverence, it does not equate to 'hate'.

I am so sick of reading article after article on theists complaining about how they are being persecuted by secular society when, the truth is, your 'religious right' ends where my nose begins and you don't like that we, rightly, ridicule your superstitions and poisonous beliefs.

Grow up.

hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
May 11, 2015, 08:54:02 AM
#72
Well, another thread about religion is off to a promising start. I think we can look forward to ten thousand posts where people ceaselessly chase their own tails over and over again and go round and around in circles over this and that.
Jump to: