Topic: Why Do You Invest? - page 2. (Read 10548 times)

@jonsi:  It's the securities section equivalent of "reputation loans" that are so popular in bitcoin.

Offer something like a secrit pr0nz site, make good on it, losing zero coin.
Use your newfound credibility to offer... oh, let's try something from a different extreme, something mundane and ubiquitous like... old washers and dryers.  
Yeah!

With XXXprofit it's the only security that I made profit just on dividents. +100% return in less than 6 months.
P.S. The site exists, only that you will never find out about it.


-edit-
 So please Lamp or MP or whoever you are, don't call me stupid, keep this for Havelock investors that lost a big part of their money.
-edit-

Lol no.  

OP did't set out to prove that he was smarter than everyone, only smarter than those who think that they make money by losing money--admittedly, not much of a task.

What you have described above is a profitable investment, paying monthly dividends.  The "investments" on Havelock are not that.

To use your template, they work like this:

After

1 Month  -  pay .10 BTC in divs, share price drops by .20BTC.  total net loss = .10 BTC.
2 Months - pay .09 BTC in divs, share price drops by .18BTC.  total net loss = .20 BTC.
3 Months - pay .05 BTC in divs, share price drops by .15BTC.  total net loss = .30 BTC
etc., etc., etc.
[OPTIONAL] 4th month:  Run away, KTHXBAI!

But hey, hats off for managing to sell the idea of a secrit pr0nz site.  I guess you really can't go broke by banking on the stupidity of others.
gg bro

I know the standard thought process around here is that BTC will hit a trillion dollars so hold hold hold but there are a lot of people that can't / don't depend on that.

You also don't seem to understand what I'm saying because you are still thinking in terms of BTC. Someone might want to invest $100, buy a $100 coin and do just that. Let's say the hypothetical return is .1 BTC per month to make it easy and that the price of BTC rises $100 per month.

After

1 Month  -  .10 BTC worth $20
2 Months - .10 BTC worth $30
3 Months - .10 BTC worth $40
4 Months - .10 BTC worth $50
5 Months - .10 BTC worth $60
6 Months - .10 BTC worth $70
7 Months - .10 BTC worth $80
8 Months - .10 BTC worth $90
9 Months - .10 BTC worth $100
10 Months - .10 BTC worth $110
11 Months - .10 BTC worth $120
12 Months - .10 BTC worth $130

$900 return in a year.  Yes, if they held one coin it would be worth $1300 but they wouldn't get some USD back each month in the meantime and if the price flattened they also wouldn't get returns well into the future (assuming a decent offer).

Then you have to consider that whatever "shares" of a company they have that is now paying $130 USD worth of dividends per month would be worth around the same number of multiples meaning those purchased for $100 are now worth $1300.

This entire thread was started to make the OP appear smarter than everyone else. I agree that there are some shit tier "investments" out there but that is not what was in question. He asked why people invest and the above is but one example of why someone might do just that.

 you would buy BTC with USD, invest it, then cash out back to USD with net gain in USD but net loss in BTC over keeping in cold storage and consider than in your best interest? Didn't think this thread was even needed but posts like these seem to suggest otherwise.

Someone spending USD to buy BTC, investing it and cashing out the proceeds back to USD accomplishes this if the price went up. Too lazy to go read a 5 page argument to see if this was accounted for.

All of these scenarios assume that he doesn't keep earning well into the future. They also ignore diversification (for those that are fiat based).

Nothing beats the tried and true method of BTC - HODL

Yes, you will have tax consequences because you actually made cash, but you're still an idiot for being happy about investing one bitcoin that you bought at 200 and getting back half a bitcoin when the price is 600 because you could have had a much bigger profit (in terms of cash) by literally doing nothing.

this isn't saying "oh man, if I would have taken my rent money 20 years ago and put it into apple and lived on the street for a month I'd be rich now." You had the bitcoins in your hand. If you would have kept them in your hand you would be in a better spot than if you gave them to these businesses.

You mean before it was "bought" by a Panamanian shell?
*Someone else mentioned SD, wasn't that on MPEx?  If you post/pm some links to SD (and HIM?) data, i'll update the chart.
Thanks.

There was a time where Havelock was actually an amazing place.

HIM did a 1-10 split, twice. HIM was far from "Lol" rating. You forgot about Satoshi Dice as well.

Yeah, Havelock is shit now, but it used to be a goldmine back in the day.

Let's start with a few simple hypotheticals.  I'll start of by putting to rest the "You think BTC $ price will keep climbing," I'll explicitly negate it in my first premise:

1.  Assume that the value of BTC is totally unpredictable.  At any point in time, it could be anywhere from 0 to infinity/21mil.  There.

Now let's try to come up with a scenario in which it would be in your best interest to invest in a security which returns less BTC than you have put in.

2.  Assume you are investing 10 BTC, at the time when 1 BTC = $100, in a security that will return 1 BTC.

I'll make a 2x2 matrix (2 by 2 chart) that will calculate your return, in $$$, if BTC price goes up to $1,000 or falls to $1.  I'll make a gif to make reading it simpler:



You should be able to see that regardless of how BTC price moves, it is better to hold than to "invest." 
If you disagree, try to describe how.  If you agree, but can imagine a scenario where it still would be profitable to invest in a security that loses BTC, please describe it as clearly as possible.   

Well, I know to distinguish between my investments and see how they perform on their own. Treat more investments just like a single one is dumb in my oppinion, because you don't know from wich investments to exit.

jonsi, you are the one who doesn't understand. At least Lambchop is just trolling... You seem to think you somehow get a magical Bitcoin call option when you trade BTC for an investment. That isn't how spending BTC works anywhere but in your mind and trying to measure an investment over time in a currency as volatile as Bitcoin is just plain dumb.

I edited my post to explain this whole thing about "btc usd investment" thing, but I'll say it again, maybe this time you'll manage to read and understand, so, here we go (pay atention):


 Here we're talking only about the secound investment, to be clear about the investment of btc in some business. Don't mix them together and don't think about  the end result of those investments combined, take them as separate investments and focus on each of them how they performed.
 If you want only profit in usd, shure you can combine them like OgNasty is doying but this prove that you don't really understand where the profit comes from.

I think both statements (about investing/value - btc/fiat) are right on their own terms.

Problem is IMHO, that btc alone does not have any real world value (it is just another currency, that is valued only in comparison with other fiat majors or goods/services), so increasing btc holding is great, but does not increase your overall real world wealth. In fact, gaining +btc from investment gives you more wealth only if you can exchange it easily for something of value to you - meal for your children, buy a new house etc or if you can swap it for widely adopted vehicle of exchange e.g. fiat majors (usd/eur/jpy etc).

You cant go directly on open market with btc just yet - so It actually makes sense as OgNasty said, to measure your investment in globally used fiat majors or other means of accepted value. If you measure your wealth solely in btc, sure you are right that having +100btc more in a month is good. But that does not tell you, how much real world wealth you actually have or gained.

Denominating wealth solely in btc would be possible once there will be whole&complete economy denominated in btc - meaning companies providing good&services will have all costs&profits&accounting and cash all in btc, and consumers would have opportunity to pay for any goods&services in btc. I do not believe that will happen anytime soon (even if I would love to see that to happen)...
  

Thanks babe. good luck to you too.

You keep at it, Tiger.  Without greater fools like you, making money would become hard work.
.

Not too badly at all recently.

Thanks for notification  

How's them bitcoin tradin' chops treatin' you, Anotheranonlol?



Keep digging them ditches