Why dumps are important - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

pinkflower

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Quote from: deisik on March 23, 2017, 03:08:04 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on March 23, 2017, 02:48:24 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2017, 10:05:12 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on March 22, 2017, 03:00:31 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 21, 2017, 12:11:55 PM

Since it was your point, not mine, after all. It was your assumption that dumps might happen due to many new folks becoming new whales because of the prices skyrocketing. I agree with such a possibility (since this is what I'm essentially saying myself, i.e. that higher prices contribute to even higher volatility) but as I suspect, the burden of proof is still lying on you. And after you provide evidence for that assumption, we can discuss this issue further (if you feel inclined to, of course)

I dont think I said this and if I said something you might have misunderstood me or maybe you may even have made a mistake in thinking that was me. But please quote the post you are talking about then we can discuss it more. There must be a little misunderstanding. Its hard when youre not talking to someone face to face

I thought it was your post after all:

Quote from: pinkflower on March 20, 2017, 02:21:18 AM

If that happens more then maybe BTC could be considered making and supporting an unhealthy market? If there are more and more whales born in the system that could move the price up and down, the more people should avoid this type of market

I guess this is what you said exactly ("more and more whales born in the system"). Again, I don't deny that it might be the case since, in fact, this is what I think myself. More specifically, that with the price surging the market is necessarily thinning and thus folks with the same amount of coins can move the price stronger, or (which is the same) the less amount of coins is needed to move the price by the same value. But my agreement with this point of view doesn't magically make me obliged to prove it. As I said, the burden of proof is still on you, i.e. if there are really more whales born in the system or not, since it was your assumption in the first place, not mine

But if it was not you posting from your account but someone else, then I feel sorry

Its a misunderstanding. I read that you said more whales are born as they are destroyed. I quoted your post and followed it up with a question and asking for proof or an explanation why you think so

I think I explained it pretty well

If you didn't quite understand it, here's another explanation. Volatility by definition means that the price moves in both directions. If the price does move in only one direction (for example, rising without rest), such price change can hardly be considered as volatility. Volatility is like a coin, it always has two sides and I have yet to see a genuine Möbius coin (and I obviously don't mean a shit coin which has taken this name). Given that, we necessarily should conclude that if the price rise gives birth to new whales, then the price decline should destroy them (conceptually)

I think I get it now. When you mean whales, do you mean whales in fiat value and not whales in the amount of BTC they have? If thats what you meant then I agree with what you said and theres no more explanations needed. I thought you meant more whales with the amount of BTC they are holding in their wallets.

That would also mean that if there will be more whales, then would therefore mean the present whales will become mega whales.

Labumi

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Quote from: alphablitzer on March 23, 2017, 03:31:12 AM

You can never control what the people will do when the price is like that now. Right now, the price is stabilizing around $900-$1200, probably around that range. You can see that when the time that it reached the all time high, it lowered down in price again because of the dumps. Since the range is like that, it became the standard price of bitcoin and probably go up again because people would start to hold it hoping to sell in a higher price $1200+. That's why I think dumps are a great thing.

Exactly once, someone who understands the language of trading will definitely know about the price of bitcoin. Dump and pump is the way that most widely performed by most of the people doing the trading, for the way they are using much more profit. Because the dump and pump give effect which is quite effective and quite a good thing to do. But just the same, to be able to get a good profit. We have to be clever in analyzing the market, otherwise it will all end in loss

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Quote from: Erza on March 24, 2017, 12:48:35 AM

Quote from: alphablitzer on March 23, 2017, 03:31:12 AM

You can never control what the people will do when the price is like that now. Right now, the price is stabilizing around $900-$1200, probably around that range. You can see that when the time that it reached the all time high, it lowered down in price again because of the dumps. Since the range is like that, it became the standard price of bitcoin and probably go up again because people would start to hold it hoping to sell in a higher price $1200+. That's why I think dumps are a great thing.

$900-$1200 is pretty high range and it will really nice to get profit if you trade on nice timing, more over if there is fluctuative situation in a some range of time. I am sure this will really easy to get more profit. In a mean time people will just hold on until they have enough bitcoin and enough profit that they want

But if there is no dump, I think we still can get profit but we will get it slowly not as fast as there is dump but we will keep on buying on higher price as always

Dump are good so we really know how long can we trust bitcoin, some are selling and that's okay because it will not be wasted as smart people will buy that. The pump and dump is a normal gambler for big investors and since they are in control what we can do now is just play with them.
We must know what's inside their mind so we will be able to make a right decision on the timing of selling and buying.

Erza

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Quote from: alphablitzer on March 23, 2017, 03:31:12 AM

You can never control what the people will do when the price is like that now. Right now, the price is stabilizing around $900-$1200, probably around that range. You can see that when the time that it reached the all time high, it lowered down in price again because of the dumps. Since the range is like that, it became the standard price of bitcoin and probably go up again because people would start to hold it hoping to sell in a higher price $1200+. That's why I think dumps are a great thing.

$900-$1200 is pretty high range and it will really nice to get profit if you trade on nice timing, more over if there is fluctuative situation in a some range of time. I am sure this will really easy to get more profit. In a mean time people will just hold on until they have enough bitcoin and enough profit that they want

But if there is no dump, I think we still can get profit but we will get it slowly not as fast as there is dump but we will keep on buying on higher price as always

marcuslong

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In my own opinion dumps are important where to make an good profit when the altcoins are decreasing you need to buy once you already buy then wait for the price to be increase this is the main reason why the coins are being dumped and then pumped in the end.

deisik

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Quote from: LoyceV on March 23, 2017, 05:37:20 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 17, 2017, 04:54:30 AM

In the case of the lack of major news (either positive or negative), the price is pretty stable right now.

I think we have a different definition of "stable". Not many stocks go up and down as much as Bitcoin. The same for currencies

I guess you shouldn't take my words out of context, ferstein?

Quote from: deisik on March 17, 2017, 04:54:30 AM

In the case of the lack of major news (either positive or negative), the price is pretty stable right now. So the only viable explanation for all of a sudden price crashes is most likely someone dumping huge amounts of coins

Further,

Quote from: LoyceV on March 23, 2017, 05:37:20 AM

I have a different theory: pump & dump is used to manipulate the market. The ones doing it are referred to as "whales". From my experience, they use a pump to increase the value of their Bitcoins, while inreasing demand. When the order book is filled with enough people willing to pay a high enough price, they dump their coins.
When panic sells start, they buy back their coins. In the end, the whale holds more dollars and more Bitcoins.
That's also why the term "weak hands" is used for people who panic sell once the price goes down

It seems that you haven't read the whole thread (or even the first page of it) since I addressed that question right there, in the first page. Dumps are good specifically because they work against dumpsters themselves (or market manipulators). It is simply no longer profitable for them to dump their coins since today they won't be able to buy them back. These dudes are set to end up with less and less bitcoins after every pump and dump cycle. Two primary reasons are behind that. First, not all top buyers are going to sell their coins at lows (panic sell-offs today became very superficial) and, second, dumpsters won't be the only ones buying at lows

Plenty of ordinary folks are waiting nowadays for these sell-offs to buy at lows

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Quote from: deisik on March 17, 2017, 04:54:30 AM

In the case of the lack of major news (either positive or negative), the price is pretty stable right now.

I think we have a different definition of "stable". Not many stocks go up and down as much as Bitcoin. The same for currencies.

Quote from: deisik on March 17, 2017, 05:29:47 AM

But this theory is still not without its weak points

For example, while it is certainly true (well, at least, I think so) that unexpected, out of the blue dumps are caused by cryptowhales liquidating their stashes, but what about pumps? It could be said that pumps are in fact offsetting the leveling out effect of dumps. And while dumps contribute to more even wealth distribution, pumps certainly work in the opposite direction, i.e. contribute to wealth centralization (accumulation) in fewer hands.

It's nice to notice Bitcoin's price usually goes up slowly, and drops quickly. Also, drops go in stages: while dropping it usually goes up a bit again, only to drop more. I think this is meant to increase the price again before the whale sells more coins.
Looking at price graphs, I feel like Bitcoin "wants" to go up in price, but it's being held back by dumps.

In stock trading, "the common man" like you and me on average buy and sell at the wrong moments compared to the professional traders.
While pump & dump strategies are illegal on the stock market, Bitcoin is unregulated, which makes is a perfect playground for whales.

There is a thread that analizes MtGox-data, but unfortunately I can't find it back. It showed the large majority of users owns only a very small amount of Bitcoins, while only a few people own a lot. Basically, that's the same as the real world: the top 1% owns more than the bottom 50%. I doubt that's going to change any time soon in Bitcoin.

Quote from: panju1 on March 18, 2017, 12:25:00 AM

Right now, the Bitcoin market has achieved sufficient scale to prevent market manipulations.

I don't think so: some actors still own more Bitcoin than exchanges trade per day. If they sell all, they influence the market.

alphablitzer

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You can never control what the people will do when the price is like that now. Right now, the price is stabilizing around $900-$1200, probably around that range. You can see that when the time that it reached the all time high, it lowered down in price again because of the dumps. Since the range is like that, it became the standard price of bitcoin and probably go up again because people would start to hold it hoping to sell in a higher price $1200+. That's why I think dumps are a great thing.

deisik

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Quote from: pinkflower on March 23, 2017, 02:48:24 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2017, 10:05:12 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on March 22, 2017, 03:00:31 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 21, 2017, 12:11:55 PM

Since it was your point, not mine, after all. It was your assumption that dumps might happen due to many new folks becoming new whales because of the prices skyrocketing. I agree with such a possibility (since this is what I'm essentially saying myself, i.e. that higher prices contribute to even higher volatility) but as I suspect, the burden of proof is still lying on you. And after you provide evidence for that assumption, we can discuss this issue further (if you feel inclined to, of course)

I dont think I said this and if I said something you might have misunderstood me or maybe you may even have made a mistake in thinking that was me. But please quote the post you are talking about then we can discuss it more. There must be a little misunderstanding. Its hard when youre not talking to someone face to face

I thought it was your post after all:

Quote from: pinkflower on March 20, 2017, 02:21:18 AM

If that happens more then maybe BTC could be considered making and supporting an unhealthy market? If there are more and more whales born in the system that could move the price up and down, the more people should avoid this type of market

I guess this is what you said exactly ("more and more whales born in the system"). Again, I don't deny that it might be the case since, in fact, this is what I think myself. More specifically, that with the price surging the market is necessarily thinning and thus folks with the same amount of coins can move the price stronger, or (which is the same) the less amount of coins is needed to move the price by the same value. But my agreement with this point of view doesn't magically make me obliged to prove it. As I said, the burden of proof is still on you, i.e. if there are really more whales born in the system or not, since it was your assumption in the first place, not mine

But if it was not you posting from your account but someone else, then I feel sorry

Its a misunderstanding. I read that you said more whales are born as they are destroyed. I quoted your post and followed it up with a question and asking for proof or an explanation why you think so

I think I explained it pretty well

If you didn't quite understand it, here's another explanation. Volatility by definition means that the price moves in both directions. If the price does move in only one direction (for example, rising without rest), such price change can hardly be considered as volatility. Volatility is like a coin, it always has two sides and I have yet to see a genuine Möbius coin (and I obviously don't mean a shit coin which has taken this name). Given that, we necessarily should conclude that if the price rise gives birth to new whales, then the price decline should destroy them (conceptually)

pinkflower

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Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2017, 10:05:12 AM

Quote from: pinkflower on March 22, 2017, 03:00:31 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 21, 2017, 12:11:55 PM

Since it was your point, not mine, after all. It was your assumption that dumps might happen due to many new folks becoming new whales because of the prices skyrocketing. I agree with such a possibility (since this is what I'm essentially saying myself, i.e. that higher prices contribute to even higher volatility) but as I suspect, the burden of proof is still lying on you. And after you provide evidence for that assumption, we can discuss this issue further (if you feel inclined to, of course)

I dont think I said this and if I said something you might have misunderstood me or maybe you may even have made a mistake in thinking that was me. But please quote the post you are talking about then we can discuss it more. There must be a little misunderstanding. Its hard when youre not talking to someone face to face

I thought it was your post after all:

Quote from: pinkflower on March 20, 2017, 02:21:18 AM

If that happens more then maybe BTC could be considered making and supporting an unhealthy market? If there are more and more whales born in the system that could move the price up and down, the more people should avoid this type of market

I guess this is what you said exactly ("more and more whales born in the system"). Again, I don't deny that it might be the case since, in fact, this is what I think myself. More specifically, that with the price surging the market is necessarily thinning and thus folks with the same amount of coins can move the price stronger, or (which is the same) the less amount of coins is needed to move the price by the same value. But my agreement with this point of view doesn't magically make me obliged to prove it. As I said, the burden of proof is still on you, i.e. if there are really more whales born in the system or not, since it was your assumption in the first place, not mine

But if it was not you posting from your account but someone else, then I feel sorry

Its a misunderstanding. I read that you said more whales are born as they are destroyed. I quoted your post and followed it up with a question and asking for proof or an explanation why you think so.

And dont you ever accuse me of letting other people use my account.

gabmen

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Quote from: X-ray on March 23, 2017, 12:01:32 AM

Quote from: bajing on March 22, 2017, 12:03:28 PM

IMO dumps are important only for some bitcoin user that have big capital so they can get bitcoin with cheap prices even though in fact dump and pump are same important for bitcoin users.

Pump and dump are important games on the cryptocurrency. No dump and no pump, no pump and no dump. Every thing will be having the opposite things such as the word of pump. it was having the opposite thing the word of dump. Dump is really important to keep the market is being stable. No one are wanna lose his money just to pump pump and pump.

Yup stability. You're right there. Having a continous pump in crypto prices would make any market or altcoin unstable as there won't be any balance. I think these dumps are very important especially for traders as this gives us opportunities to make more earnings.

deisik

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Quote from: lionheart78 on March 22, 2017, 11:41:01 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2017, 11:26:57 PM

Quote from: lionheart78 on March 22, 2017, 09:56:14 PM

Mooncoin is a POW coins and is still being mined, developers i think is still active and this is more than 2 years coin. If you are to hoard mooncoin when buying it since it has not much of use I do agree that it is a waste of time and money but if a person is in for a profit taking advantage of the fluctuation then it is actually a good choice if the person have little budget. It was actively trading in cryptsy before I had my profit from trading it in LTC Market

You don't get it

I don't know how much Mooncoin was worth 2 years at launch or soon thereafter, but if the whole orderbook (the Bid side obviously) has less than 1 bitcoin in total, basically, you can't earn anything. I just checked the prices and 2.2M dogecoins roughly equals 0.5 BTC, and this is the size of all demand for this coin at that exchange presently. Now think how much you could earn even if the price of this coin doesn't go down. I guess using faucets would give you more profits and safely at that (and you wouldn't need a budget for that altogether)

The demand (buy wall) does not mean the volume though I failed to check that day volume. I won't argue with your point of view since you want to see it that way and further derail the thread. I think you really need to experience it to understand how things goes with such kind of trading. Theory often times change when applied into practice since not all factors are constant

Indeed, it doesn't mean. It just says that there is no volume since the liquidity in the market effectively provides the upper edge for the volume range. In other words, if there is no liquidity there cannot possibly be volume (you can see that at the price chart to judge for yourself), but the reverse is not always true, i.e. there can be liquidity but there may still not be volume. Obviously, this doesn't help your point of view in the least. Other than that, I don't really see how you can confuse theory with practice since I'm talking exclusively from a trader's point of view. That is, as practical as it could ever get. And you may not want to tell me what is going to derail the thread

It is my thread, after all, and it is up to me to decide what derails the thread and what not

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Quote from: bajing on March 22, 2017, 12:03:28 PM

IMO dumps are important only for some bitcoin user that have big capital so they can get bitcoin with cheap prices even though in fact dump and pump are same important for bitcoin users.

Pump and dump are important games on the cryptocurrency. No dump and no pump, no pump and no dump. Every thing will be having the opposite things such as the word of pump. it was having the opposite thing the word of dump. Dump is really important to keep the market is being stable. No one are wanna lose his money just to pump pump and pump.

lionheart78

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Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2017, 11:26:57 PM

Quote from: lionheart78 on March 22, 2017, 09:56:14 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2017, 07:33:02 AM

Quote from: lionheart78 on March 22, 2017, 06:35:59 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2017, 06:13:56 AM

Quote from: lionheart78 on March 22, 2017, 05:26:12 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2017, 05:22:41 AM

In short, do you yourself trade shit coins which are priced at less than 1 satoshi?

I do, traders trade where there is profit (I am not counting myself as one of them but I do trade), emotion neglected

So are you actually buying these shit coins?

For example, with doges or just selling them to get out of your position and save some dough? Could you post a chart (or a link to such). Not that I doubt your words (this is your business, after all), I'm rather curious to see how well coins fare in their "afterlife", so to speak. I would be interested to look at a price chart for a coin which is left for dead in Bitcoin terms but is still being traded against some other more or less decent coin (like, say, Dogecoin or Litecoin)

Told you i do not consider myself as heavy traders as others, I can give you some, but rather looking at the exchange chart would make a better statement than my trading chart. LTC - Doge pairs; Doge - Mooncoin chart this will give you a more solid information

Dogecoin is a decent coin which is still well above 1 doge per 1 satoshi price

Though its future is rather dim if not outright grim. In fact, I had earned decent profits by trading dogecoins a couple years ago. Regarding the other coin in your post, Mooncoin, it is worth looking at the orderbook totals for both asks and bids. Asks total to 10,691,927,002,071.645 dogecoins, i.e. so many mooncoins (in dogecoin terms) people are wanting to exchange for dogecoins (just in case, this is over 10T dogecoins which is above the total number of dogecoins coins ever issued) while the bid side totals only 2,227,202.601 dogecoins (a little over 2M dogecoins), i.e. so many dogecoins people want to exchange for mooncoins (which is well below 1 bitcoin if I'm not mistaken). That basically proves my point, i.e. buying mooncoin is a waste of time and money

Mooncoin is a POW coins and is still being mined, developers i think is still active and this is more than 2 years coin. If you are to hoard mooncoin when buying it since it has not much of use I do agree that it is a waste of time and money but if a person is in for a profit taking advantage of the fluctuation then it is actually a good choice if the person have little budget. It was actively trading in cryptsy before I had my profit from trading it in LTC Market

You don't get it

I don't know how much Mooncoin was worth 2 years at launch or soon thereafter, but if the whole orderbook (the Bid side obviously) has less than 1 bitcoin in total, basically, you can't earn anything. I just checked the prices and 2.2M dogecoins roughly equals 0.5 BTC, and this is the size of all demand for this coin at that exchange presently. Now think how much you could earn even if the price of this coin doesn't go down. I guess using faucets would give you more profits and safely at that (and you wouldn't need a budget for that altogether)

The demand (buy wall) does not mean the volume though I failed to check that day volume. I won't argue with your point of view since you want to see it that way and further derail the thread. I think you really need to experience it to understand how things goes with such kind of trading. Theory often times change when applied into practice since not all factors are constant

.

deisik

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Quote from: lionheart78 on March 22, 2017, 09:56:14 PM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2017, 07:33:02 AM

Quote from: lionheart78 on March 22, 2017, 06:35:59 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2017, 06:13:56 AM

Quote from: lionheart78 on March 22, 2017, 05:26:12 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2017, 05:22:41 AM

In short, do you yourself trade shit coins which are priced at less than 1 satoshi?

I do, traders trade where there is profit (I am not counting myself as one of them but I do trade), emotion neglected

So are you actually buying these shit coins?

For example, with doges or just selling them to get out of your position and save some dough? Could you post a chart (or a link to such). Not that I doubt your words (this is your business, after all), I'm rather curious to see how well coins fare in their "afterlife", so to speak. I would be interested to look at a price chart for a coin which is left for dead in Bitcoin terms but is still being traded against some other more or less decent coin (like, say, Dogecoin or Litecoin)

Told you i do not consider myself as heavy traders as others, I can give you some, but rather looking at the exchange chart would make a better statement than my trading chart. LTC - Doge pairs; Doge - Mooncoin chart this will give you a more solid information

Dogecoin is a decent coin which is still well above 1 doge per 1 satoshi price

Though its future is rather dim if not outright grim. In fact, I had earned decent profits by trading dogecoins a couple years ago. Regarding the other coin in your post, Mooncoin, it is worth looking at the orderbook totals for both asks and bids. Asks total to 10,691,927,002,071.645 dogecoins, i.e. so many mooncoins (in dogecoin terms) people are wanting to exchange for dogecoins (just in case, this is over 10T dogecoins which is above the total number of dogecoins coins ever issued) while the bid side totals only 2,227,202.601 dogecoins (a little over 2M dogecoins), i.e. so many dogecoins people want to exchange for mooncoins (which is well below 1 bitcoin if I'm not mistaken). That basically proves my point, i.e. buying mooncoin is a waste of time and money

Mooncoin is a POW coins and is still being mined, developers i think is still active and this is more than 2 years coin. If you are to hoard mooncoin when buying it since it has not much of use I do agree that it is a waste of time and money but if a person is in for a profit taking advantage of the fluctuation then it is actually a good choice if the person have little budget. It was actively trading in cryptsy before I had my profit from trading it in LTC Market

You don't get it

I don't know how much Mooncoin was worth 2 years at launch or soon thereafter, but if the whole orderbook (the Bid side obviously) has less than 1 bitcoin in total, basically, you can't earn anything. I just checked the prices and 2.2M dogecoins roughly equals 0.5 BTC, and this is the size of all demand for this coin at that exchange presently. Now think how much you could earn even if the price of this coin doesn't go down. I guess using faucets would give you more profits and safely at that (and you wouldn't need a budget for that altogether)

lionheart78

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Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2017, 07:33:02 AM

Quote from: lionheart78 on March 22, 2017, 06:35:59 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2017, 06:13:56 AM

Quote from: lionheart78 on March 22, 2017, 05:26:12 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 22, 2017, 05:22:41 AM

In short, do you yourself trade shit coins which are priced at less than 1 satoshi?

I do, traders trade where there is profit (I am not counting myself as one of them but I do trade), emotion neglected

So are you actually buying these shit coins?

For example, with doges or just selling them to get out of your position and save some dough? Could you post a chart (or a link to such). Not that I doubt your words (this is your business, after all), I'm rather curious to see how well coins fare in their "afterlife", so to speak. I would be interested to look at a price chart for a coin which is left for dead in Bitcoin terms but is still being traded against some other more or less decent coin (like, say, Dogecoin or Litecoin)

Told you i do not consider myself as heavy traders as others, I can give you some, but rather looking at the exchange chart would make a better statement than my trading chart. LTC - Doge pairs; Doge - Mooncoin chart this will give you a more solid information

Dogecoin is a decent coin which is still well above 1 doge per 1 satoshi price

Though its future is rather dim if not outright grim. In fact, I had earned decent profits by trading dogecoins a couple years ago. Regarding the other coin in your post, Mooncoin, it is worth looking at the orderbook totals for both asks and bids. Asks total to 10,691,927,002,071.645 dogecoins, i.e. so many mooncoins (in dogecoin terms) people are wanting to exchange for dogecoins (just in case, this is over 10T dogecoins which is above the total number of dogecoins coins ever issued) while the bid side totals only 2,227,202.601 dogecoins (a little over 2M dogecoins), i.e. so many dogecoins people want to exchange for mooncoins (which is well below 1 bitcoin if I'm not mistaken). That basically proves my point, i.e. buying mooncoin is a waste of time and money

Mooncoin is a POW coins and is still being mined, developers i think is still active and this is more than 2 years coin. If you are to hoard mooncoin when buying it since it has not much of use I do agree that it is a waste of time and money but if a person is in for a profit taking advantage of the fluctuation then it is actually a good choice if the person have little budget. It was actively trading in cryptsy before I had my profit from trading it in LTC Market.

Quote from: bajing on March 22, 2017, 12:03:28 PM

IMO dumps are important only for some bitcoin user that have big capital so they can get bitcoin with cheap prices even though in fact dump and pump are same important for bitcoin users.

I think you have missed the point of getting into bitcoin in cheaper price. Dump is not only important to those who have big capital but to all who are wanting to buy Bitcoin. Just imagine if you have $2000 fund to buy bitcoin, and the current price when you are thinking to buy is at $1300 then the next day it goes down to $950, you can actually feel the difference on how much you can buy BTC. Instead of having less than 2 BTC, because of the dump, you are able to buy more than 2 BTC. Same applies to those who have smaller fund.

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IMO dumps are important only for some bitcoin user that have big capital so they can get bitcoin with cheap prices even though in fact dump and pump are same important for bitcoin users.

deisik

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Quote from: pinkflower on March 22, 2017, 03:00:31 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 21, 2017, 12:11:55 PM

Since it was your point, not mine, after all. It was your assumption that dumps might happen due to many new folks becoming new whales because of the prices skyrocketing. I agree with such a possibility (since this is what I'm essentially saying myself, i.e. that higher prices contribute to even higher volatility) but as I suspect, the burden of proof is still lying on you. And after you provide evidence for that assumption, we can discuss this issue further (if you feel inclined to, of course)

I dont think I said this and if I said something you might have misunderstood me or maybe you may even have made a mistake in thinking that was me. But please quote the post you are talking about then we can discuss it more. There must be a little misunderstanding. Its hard when youre not talking to someone face to face

I thought it was your post after all:

Quote from: pinkflower on March 20, 2017, 02:21:18 AM

If that happens more then maybe BTC could be considered making and supporting an unhealthy market? If there are more and more whales born in the system that could move the price up and down, the more people should avoid this type of market

I guess this is what you said exactly ("more and more whales born in the system"). Again, I don't deny that it might be the case since, in fact, this is what I think myself. More specifically, that with the price surging the market is necessarily thinning and thus folks with the same amount of coins can move the price stronger, or (which is the same) the less amount of coins is needed to move the price by the same value. But my agreement with this point of view doesn't magically make me obliged to prove it. As I said, the burden of proof is still on you, i.e. if there are really more whales born in the system or not, since it was your assumption in the first place, not mine

But if it was not you posting from your account but someone else, then I feel sorry

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Dumps are some kind of Bitcoin price correction but I don't think we can create them intentionaly. They are depending on the rules and situation on the Bitcoin market. Of course they help small users to get some more coins so for that they are convenient but I wouldn't say they are created for that purpose.

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Quote from: jaysabi on March 21, 2017, 07:04:42 PM

Additionally, I do believe the most recent price crash was a bit of market manipulation by large traders. As an anecdote, the rate to borrow margin on poloniex went from the typical .02 to .03 percent daily rate, to typically .25 to .45 percent, and I had one offer accepted as high as .77 percent. This suggests to me that traders were buying up as much margin as they could to trade the volatility, which I believe they created for that purpose. With how fast the price was dropping, it looked to be all shorting action with that margin. But this is also a theory

I don't really think that it was ordinary traders who initiated the panic selling

But they did actually contribute to the volatility since that's what basically margin trading does in general. When people see the prices start to fall dramatically, they will quite naturally try to squeeze as much profit from the price movement as possible, including borrowing bitcoins for shoring them. Thus you will see interest rates spike. But since they are selling the borrowed coins they will inadvertently contribute to prices going even lower. So this is not an anecdote but a harsh reality of margin trading. But this is also dangerous as hell since it leads to markets being severely oversold, and those who borrow the last will suffer heavy losses in the end because when the price rebounds, they will have to close their short positions and likely on margin calls (i.e. exchange closing them)

Topic: Why dumps are important - page 2. (Read 4775 times)