Why dumps are important - page 5. | Bitcointalksearch.org

deisik

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Quote from: Iranus on March 19, 2017, 10:52:04 AM

Often there will be a lot of whales who just buy a lot of Bitcoin at a lower price themselves, which prevents dumps from going into the hands of larger groups of users, especially when newbies panic sell into the hands of them as well

At best, it will be one group of whales selling to another group of whales

So it is all six of one and half a dozen of the other. Also, as I said before, the price itself consistently going up from cycle to cycle prevents Bitcoin from being accumulated in one hands. It could be claimed of course that the price goes up exclusively because someone is buying Bitcoin but this is essentially the same process as dumping coins, obviously in reverse order. And it would be mirrored perfectly but for the price bottom consistently going up as well (i.e. higher lows). Could the price collapse below 700 dollars per coin nowadays? If only for a very brief moment, I suspect

Yutikas_11920

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Quote from: Wowcoin on March 18, 2017, 05:27:25 AM

The decrease of bitcoin is especially important for traders and investors . Due to the bitcoin dump more and more are investing because investors await that bitcoin become cheap rates for them to buy. That why fump of bitcoin are so important.

Yeah that's the importance of investors do dump. For if the investor does not do a dump then he obtained profits will not be as fast as when its price rises. Many investors in the bitcoin which has a very good role in the price of the bitcoin and most of them did want to seek advantage. Bitcoin is a digital currency that is good for profit, the dump is a good way for it.If the absence of a dump then all trading transactions in the bitcoin unlike now

Iranus

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Dumps are partially useful in this sense but often the reason that there is large amounts of Bitcoin to dump is because someone has bought a lot of Bitcoin at a lower point and decided that it was time to offload it.

Often there will be a lot of whales who just buy a lot of Bitcoin at a lower price themselves, which prevents dumps from going into the hands of larger groups of users, especially when newbies panic sell into the hands of them as well.

Pattberry

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Quote from: Pierre 2 on March 19, 2017, 09:59:23 AM

Small dumps which are followed by BUY orders are always healthy.
I believe noone really wants immobile bitcoin market right now, in this phase of development. Still too early.

It is good to see dumps every now and then if you are planning to enter when there is a small dump other than that i do not think it is a good thing.Traders really like to see a volatile market but the recent downfall is because of the forking debate and nothing else and at the moment the price is below $1000 and i am not sure what is the resistance at this point.

dunfida

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When we are talking about dumps one thing comes to my mind which the price would go down to the bottom but considering on price decrease i could say its important specially on traders which they could really make money out of those movements on the price. Its actually hard to identify on when to sell out or to buy because we wont know if its the new bottom or not.

deisik

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Quote from: deisik on March 17, 2017, 05:54:30 AM

This is just a theory, so bear with me (constructive criticism is welcome)

And this theory asserts that Bitcoin dumps like what we've seen recently (i.e. today and right after the rejection of the Winklevoss ETF by the SEC) contribute to more even Bitcoin distribution over time and will help stabilize prices in the future (read make Bitcoin growth more consistent). What real world facts is this theory based on? We know that initially there were only a few users (so-called early adopters) who held the majority of coins, so they could easily move the price by dumping their stashes (at least, some part thereof). In the case of the lack of major news (either positive or negative), the price is pretty stable right now. So the only viable explanation for all of a sudden price crashes is most likely someone dumping huge amounts of coins (maybe, the bros themselves). This causes the price to plunge (even if momentarily). It is almost certain as well that the coins dumped are bought by a lot of independent traders, and therefore the wealth distribution is set to level out eventually. That's basically why dumps are important since they are caused via massive sell-offs by a relatively small number of large Bitcoin holders and get absorbed by the market

What would happen if the dumbers themselves buy more bitcoins than they previously had when the price falls.In such cases,bitcoins are not widely distributed and bitcoins are even more centralized than before.

Read at least the first page of the thread

You are not the first who is asking this question (and not even the second), I've answered it twice already. Dumpsters would be able to buy more bitcoins only if the following conditions were met. First of all, they should be the only ones buying at lows but today there are no more fools around (in large quantities, at least), and whenever the price goes down a hundred (or two hundred dollars), there is strong support from ordinary traders not wanting to lose the opportunity to buy cheap coins. Further, people who sold at highs are no longer panicking when the price goes down, so whom these dumpsters will be buying from? They can only sell their coins but there is no way back, at least, not at full throttle

Pierre 2

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Small dumps which are followed by BUY orders are always healthy.
I believe noone really wants immobile bitcoin market right now, in this phase of development. Still too early.

deisik

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Quote from: valta4065 on March 19, 2017, 09:20:24 AM

Not a bad idea.
I would add to that that dumps are important because they show the coin is "living".
If we had no dump what so ever how would we make the difference between a succesful coin (no dump cause no one want to let their coin on the market) and a shitty one (no dump cause no one gives a shit about buying it). Dumps regulate the price on the short term and stabilize it on the long term!

Not all dumps are born equal

With a shitty coin, no more dump can only happen when it gets sold for just 1 satoshi in whatever amounts. That essentially means that there are no buyers for that coin altogether since you can't place a bid at a zero price. All shitty coins end up there, and if it doesn't make the final dump, it means that it is not complete shit yet. Obviously, Bitcoin dumps as of late have nothing to do with such final countdowns. I never forget to repeat that the market always fools the majority of traders, and you can be pretty sure that the current consensus on the direction that the price is going to take will be proved wrong once again

valta4065

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Not a bad idea.
I would add to that that dumps are important because they show the coin is "living".
If we had no dump what so ever how would we make the difference between a succesful coin (no dump cause no one want to let their coin on the market) and a shitty one (no dump cause no one gives a shit about buying it). Dumps regulate the price on the short term and stabilize it on the long term!

deisik

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Quote from: pitham1 on March 19, 2017, 08:31:43 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 18, 2017, 05:58:52 AM

Quote from: panju1 on March 18, 2017, 01:25:00 AM

Right now, the Bitcoin market has achieved sufficient scale to prevent market manipulations.
In other alt markets, lot of dumps are carried out by whales to depress the market and then pick up coins at a low rate. This is less likely to happen with bitcoins, though

That seems to be a misguided opinion

In fact, I'm rather inclined to think in the opposite direction. With most folks going to withhold their coins and given the limited supply of new coins, the Bitcoin market tends to be more prone to manipulation. In other words, there is not much growth in scale, and you seem to be confusing growth in prices with growth in "scale". I guess this is a mistake and your stance doesn't match well what happens in reality. In real life, higher prices at the basically the same amount of something traded (in this case, bitcoins) make markets thinner overall which facilitates manipulation, not prevents it (and this is irrespective of how many whales are there)

How easy it is to manipulate prices depends on 2 things - the depth of the market and the price. Compared to altcoins, both of these are high for Bitcoin. You just have to look at the daily volumes traded to see if it is difficult or easy for a whale to move the market.

It is not a question of kind

It is a question of degree (I hope I won't have to explain the difference). Bitcoin markets have been manipulated in the past. If you disagree with that, then there is nothing to talk about. If you agree, then with higher prices, markets are set to become less deep (i.e. thinner). This is a logical necessity if you please, given that the supply of coins is constant. Since the supply is constant (or can be considered as constant), you would necessarily arrive at a conclusion that higher prices mean thinner markets because at higher prices there will be less demand (all other things being obviously equal). But that pretty much means that markets would be more easily manipulated since less coins are needed to move the price in either direction

xIIImaL

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Quote from: PokerFace3 on March 19, 2017, 07:43:39 AM

Dumps happen for some reason and those reason are the points where bitcoins can improve .. sort of like we learn from our mistakes. We see a dump happening because a big investor or a group of investor dumps his coins and gets the market low, now that good happen with that is more people catch those headlines and hence get into bitcoins, certainly helping the community grow and so the price of bitcoins, in long term though.

dump is been find due to demand and supply has been reduced. We know the price is volatile always in bitcoin. You can utilize the dump and you can some bitcoin and hold it for future purposes. Impacts are for traders involves with big trade volumes.

carriebee

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As far as I know, dumps are also important in trading in the market. These happen when there are groups or a person dumps his coin, or rather happen when there are panic selling place in. And, some are grab this opportunity to buy a coin which is low price so they can sold at a high price to earn profit.

pitham1

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Quote from: deisik on March 18, 2017, 05:58:52 AM

Quote from: panju1 on March 18, 2017, 01:25:00 AM

Right now, the Bitcoin market has achieved sufficient scale to prevent market manipulations.
In other alt markets, lot of dumps are carried out by whales to depress the market and then pick up coins at a low rate. This is less likely to happen with bitcoins, though

That seems to be a misguided opinion

In fact, I'm rather inclined to think in the opposite direction. With most folks going to withhold their coins and given the limited supply of new coins, the Bitcoin market tends to be more prone to manipulation. In other words, there is not much growth in scale, and you seem to be confusing growth in prices with growth in "scale". I guess this is a mistake and your stance doesn't match well what happens in reality. In real life, higher prices at the basically the same amount of something traded (in this case, bitcoins) make markets thinner overall which facilitates manipulation, not prevents it (and this is irrespective of how many whales are there)

How easy it is to manipulate prices depends on 2 things - the depth of the market and the price. Compared to altcoins, both of these are high for Bitcoin. You just have to look at the daily volumes traded to see if it is difficult or easy for a whale to move the market.

PokerFace3

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Dumps happen for some reason and those reason are the points where bitcoins can improve .. sort of like we learn from our mistakes. We see a dump happening because a big investor or a group of investor dumps his coins and gets the market low, now that good happen with that is more people catch those headlines and hence get into bitcoins, certainly helping the community grow and so the price of bitcoins, in long term though.

deisik

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Quote from: pinkflower on March 19, 2017, 04:23:07 AM

Quote from: deisik on March 17, 2017, 05:54:30 AM

This is just a theory, so bear with me (constructive criticism is welcome)

And this theory asserts that Bitcoin dumps like what we've seen recently (i.e. today and right after the rejection of the Winklevoss ETF by the SEC) contribute to more even Bitcoin distribution over time and will help stabilize prices in the future (read make Bitcoin growth more consistent). What real world facts is this theory based on? We know that initially there were only a few users (so-called early adopters) who held the majority of coins, so they could easily move the price by dumping their stashes (at least, some part thereof). In the case of the lack of major news (either positive or negative), the price is pretty stable right now. So the only viable explanation for all of a sudden price crashes is most likely someone dumping huge amounts of coins (maybe, the bros themselves). This causes the price to plunge (even if momentarily). It is almost certain as well that the coins dumped are bought by a lot of independent traders, and therefore the wealth distribution is set to level out eventually. That's basically why dumps are important since they are caused via massive sell-offs by a relatively small number of large Bitcoin holders and get absorbed by the market

Youre assuming that the top in the rich list of Bitcoin are offloading their coins. I think whats really happening is the super rich wallets in BTC are not moving their coins. So whats really happening is a thinner and wider distribution of the few coins in circulation, remember BTC is divisible up to 8 decimal places. It might like the real world where the top 1% controls most of the wealth

That might well be the case

But if this is the case, that means that those Bitcoin holders which previously didn't cut it as whales (i.e. they couldn't move price much with their stashes before) now have become ones. What it basically comes down to is the capability of these new whales to affect prices, i.e. folks can move price with less coins (that's why they can be considered as new whales in the first place). If so, the current price crash is no more than a spike in volatility since market thinning should necessarily work in both directions. In other words, it can be moved up just as easily as it can be moved down. So we should just wait and see how the price would behave in the coming days

stevano

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is very important because it makes a bitcoin ownership circulation, which ultimately makes bitcoin ownership of equity, I think this is a positive thing and reasonable in the world cryuptocurrency

pinkflower

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Quote from: deisik on March 17, 2017, 05:54:30 AM

This is just a theory, so bear with me (constructive criticism is welcome)

And this theory asserts that Bitcoin dumps like what we've seen recently (i.e. today and right after the rejection of the Winklevoss ETF by the SEC) contribute to more even Bitcoin distribution over time and will help stabilize prices in the future (read make Bitcoin growth more consistent). What real world facts is this theory based on? We know that initially there were only a few users (so-called early adopters) who held the majority of coins, so they could easily move the price by dumping their stashes (at least, some part thereof). In the case of the lack of major news (either positive or negative), the price is pretty stable right now. So the only viable explanation for all of a sudden price crashes is most likely someone dumping huge amounts of coins (maybe, the bros themselves). This causes the price to plunge (even if momentarily). It is almost certain as well that the coins dumped are bought by a lot of independent traders, and therefore the wealth distribution is set to level out eventually. That's basically why dumps are important since they are caused via massive sell-offs by a relatively small number of large Bitcoin holders and get absorbed by the market

Youre assuming that the top in the rich list of Bitcoin are offloading their coins. I think whats really happening is the super rich wallets in BTC are not moving their coins. So whats really happening is a thinner and wider distribution of the few coins in circulation, remember BTC is divisible up to 8 decimal places. It might like the real world where the top 1% controls most of the wealth.

deisik

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Quote from: Amph on March 19, 2017, 03:31:10 AM

it depends, what you said it's true, but if dump are casued by big whales that manipulate for the sole purpose to buy back more coins, it would reckt the possible distribution that you are talking about

and whales are greed they always buy more when they sell, no matter how many coins they started with, after all trading is about getting more not giving them to the other

I strongly advise you to read the whole thread

It is only one page and a few posts beyond that. The issues you raise in your post have already been addressed before somewhere in the first page. Since you obviously won't read (write before read approach) and you certainly won't alone, I shortly explain it again why your issues will remain mostly theoretical. First, whales won't be the only ones buying at lows and, second, not all people buying from them at highs will be selling to them at lows. In any case, if the price goes up over time, whales will be necessarily losing coins and accumulating fiat instead. For a more detailed explanation, read the friendly thread after all

Amph

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it depends, what you said it's true, but if dump are casued by big whales that manipulate for the sole purpose to buy back more coins, it would reckt the possible distribution that you are talking about

and whales are greed they always buy more when they sell, no matter how many coins they started with, after all trading is about getting more not giving them to the other

CyberKuro

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Quote from: deisik on March 17, 2017, 05:54:30 AM

This is just a theory, so bear with me (constructive criticism is welcome)

And this theory asserts that Bitcoin dumps like what we've seen recently (i.e. today and right after the rejection of the Winklevoss ETF by the SEC) contribute to more even Bitcoin distribution over time and will help stabilize prices in the future (read make Bitcoin growth more consistent). What real world facts is this theory based on? We know that initially there were only a few users (so-called early adopters) who held the majority of coins, so they could easily move the price by dumping their stashes (at least, some part thereof). In the case of the lack of major news (either positive or negative), the price is pretty stable right now. So the only viable explanation for all of a sudden price crashes is most likely someone dumping huge amounts of coins (maybe, the bros themselves). This causes the price to plunge (even if momentarily). It is almost certain as well that the coins dumped are bought by a lot of independent traders, and therefore the wealth distribution is set to level out eventually. That's basically why dumps are important since they are caused via massive sell-offs by a relatively small number of large Bitcoin holders and get absorbed by the market

The cycle always repeated as fluctuations give chance for new adopters and traders to purchase cheaper coins.
People attracted to bitcoin because the advantages offered and its price keep increasing over time, so we could get profits from bargain and hold it for long term investment. But, at least we know that the price will increase and set a new level of price right? And so far $1000 is the floor I guess.

Topic: Why dumps are important - page 5. (Read 4748 times)