Topic: Why dumps are important - page 4. (Read 4775 times)
I don't know about you but seems to me like more people dump more people support the buy walls, have you noticed we've come from a $200M daily volume to a $600M 24Hrs and will soon reach $1B I know that could mean old hodlers might be dumping and are cashing out but it is a good sign let the big bag holders dump their stash it'll help to balance the scales of distribution, every day passes and more people from around the world are entering into bitcoin. remember that no matter what will going to happen HF or not our coins are safe we just need to keep supporting the Core, but why Core? because Satoshi himself could very well be steering the development of Core version you never know.
How can more whales be created as fast as they are destroyed? If you could show proof that its happening and also make us see how its happening, that would be appreciated by a lot of us whos willing to learn. And how could that happen in a system where whales mostly buy and hold BTC?
How come you also said that theres no such economy in BTC. A lot of people will disagree with you.
How come you also said that theres no such economy in BTC. A lot of people will disagree with you.
This is just a theory, so bear with me (constructive criticism is welcome)
And this theory asserts that Bitcoin dumps like what we've seen recently (i.e. today and right after the rejection of the Winklevoss ETF by the SEC) contribute to more even Bitcoin distribution over time and will help stabilize prices in the future (read make Bitcoin growth more consistent). What real world facts is this theory based on? We know that initially there were only a few users (so-called early adopters) who held the majority of coins, so they could easily move the price by dumping their stashes (at least, some part thereof). In the case of the lack of major news (either positive or negative), the price is pretty stable right now. So the only viable explanation for all of a sudden price crashes is most likely someone dumping huge amounts of coins (maybe, the bros themselves). This causes the price to plunge (even if momentarily). It is almost certain as well that the coins dumped are bought by a lot of independent traders, and therefore the wealth distribution is set to level out eventually. That's basically why dumps are important since they are caused via massive sell-offs by a relatively small number of large Bitcoin holders and get absorbed by the market
And this theory asserts that Bitcoin dumps like what we've seen recently (i.e. today and right after the rejection of the Winklevoss ETF by the SEC) contribute to more even Bitcoin distribution over time and will help stabilize prices in the future (read make Bitcoin growth more consistent). What real world facts is this theory based on? We know that initially there were only a few users (so-called early adopters) who held the majority of coins, so they could easily move the price by dumping their stashes (at least, some part thereof). In the case of the lack of major news (either positive or negative), the price is pretty stable right now. So the only viable explanation for all of a sudden price crashes is most likely someone dumping huge amounts of coins (maybe, the bros themselves). This causes the price to plunge (even if momentarily). It is almost certain as well that the coins dumped are bought by a lot of independent traders, and therefore the wealth distribution is set to level out eventually. That's basically why dumps are important since they are caused via massive sell-offs by a relatively small number of large Bitcoin holders and get absorbed by the market
Youre assuming that the top in the rich list of Bitcoin are offloading their coins. I think whats really happening is the super rich wallets in BTC are not moving their coins. So whats really happening is a thinner and wider distribution of the few coins in circulation, remember BTC is divisible up to 8 decimal places. It might like the real world where the top 1% controls most of the wealth
That might well be the case
But if this is the case, that means that those Bitcoin holders which previously didn't cut it as whales (i.e. they couldn't move price much with their stashes before) now have become ones. What it basically comes down to is the capability of these new whales to affect prices, i.e. folks can move price with less coins (that's why they can be considered as new whales in the first place). If so, the current price crash is no more than a spike in volatility since market thinning should necessarily work in both directions. In other words, it can be moved up just as easily as it can be moved down. So we should just wait and see how the price would behave in the coming days
If that happens more then maybe BTC could be considered making and supporting an unhealthy market? If there are more and more whales born in the system that could move the price up and down, the more people should avoid this type of market
That would certainly ruin a real economy based on Bitcoin as a means of payment
But since there is no such economy in the first place, there is nothing to ruin in the second. In respect to purely financial markets and Bitcoin more specifically, new whales are born as fast as they are destroyed (just like virtual particles in physics) since this process works in reverse as good as it works forward. Price volatility is good for traders and they are effectively working against it, thereby limiting price fluctuations. In other words, trees don't grow to the sky, birds can't fly to the stars and Bitcoin price cannot skyrocket to the moon. There is certainly a limit to the price growth since this growth will necessarily get offset by the spike in volatility over time, i.e. with Bitcoin the volatility is increasing faster than the price
This is just a theory, so bear with me (constructive criticism is welcome)
And this theory asserts that Bitcoin dumps like what we've seen recently (i.e. today and right after the rejection of the Winklevoss ETF by the SEC) contribute to more even Bitcoin distribution over time and will help stabilize prices in the future (read make Bitcoin growth more consistent). What real world facts is this theory based on? We know that initially there were only a few users (so-called early adopters) who held the majority of coins, so they could easily move the price by dumping their stashes (at least, some part thereof). In the case of the lack of major news (either positive or negative), the price is pretty stable right now. So the only viable explanation for all of a sudden price crashes is most likely someone dumping huge amounts of coins (maybe, the bros themselves). This causes the price to plunge (even if momentarily). It is almost certain as well that the coins dumped are bought by a lot of independent traders, and therefore the wealth distribution is set to level out eventually. That's basically why dumps are important since they are caused via massive sell-offs by a relatively small number of large Bitcoin holders and get absorbed by the market
And this theory asserts that Bitcoin dumps like what we've seen recently (i.e. today and right after the rejection of the Winklevoss ETF by the SEC) contribute to more even Bitcoin distribution over time and will help stabilize prices in the future (read make Bitcoin growth more consistent). What real world facts is this theory based on? We know that initially there were only a few users (so-called early adopters) who held the majority of coins, so they could easily move the price by dumping their stashes (at least, some part thereof). In the case of the lack of major news (either positive or negative), the price is pretty stable right now. So the only viable explanation for all of a sudden price crashes is most likely someone dumping huge amounts of coins (maybe, the bros themselves). This causes the price to plunge (even if momentarily). It is almost certain as well that the coins dumped are bought by a lot of independent traders, and therefore the wealth distribution is set to level out eventually. That's basically why dumps are important since they are caused via massive sell-offs by a relatively small number of large Bitcoin holders and get absorbed by the market
Youre assuming that the top in the rich list of Bitcoin are offloading their coins. I think whats really happening is the super rich wallets in BTC are not moving their coins. So whats really happening is a thinner and wider distribution of the few coins in circulation, remember BTC is divisible up to 8 decimal places. It might like the real world where the top 1% controls most of the wealth
That might well be the case
But if this is the case, that means that those Bitcoin holders which previously didn't cut it as whales (i.e. they couldn't move price much with their stashes before) now have become ones. What it basically comes down to is the capability of these new whales to affect prices, i.e. folks can move price with less coins (that's why they can be considered as new whales in the first place). If so, the current price crash is no more than a spike in volatility since market thinning should necessarily work in both directions. In other words, it can be moved up just as easily as it can be moved down. So we should just wait and see how the price would behave in the coming days
If that happens more then maybe BTC could be considered making and supporting an unhealthy market? If there are more and more whales born in the system that could move the price up and down, the more people should avoid this type of market.
Not a bad idea.
I would add to that that dumps are important because they show the coin is "living".
If we had no dump what so ever how would we make the difference between a succesful coin (no dump cause no one want to let their coin on the market) and a shitty one (no dump cause no one gives a shit about buying it). Dumps regulate the price on the short term and stabilize it on the long term!
I would add to that that dumps are important because they show the coin is "living".
If we had no dump what so ever how would we make the difference between a succesful coin (no dump cause no one want to let their coin on the market) and a shitty one (no dump cause no one gives a shit about buying it). Dumps regulate the price on the short term and stabilize it on the long term!
Not all dumps are born equal
With a shitty coin, no more dump can only happen when it gets sold for just 1 satoshi in whatever amounts. That essentially means that there are no buyers for that coin altogether since you can't place a bid at a zero price. All shitty coins end up there, and if it doesn't make the final dump, it means that it is not complete shit yet. Obviously, Bitcoin dumps as of late have nothing to do with such final countdowns. I never forget to repeat that the market always fools the majority of traders, and you can be pretty sure that the current consensus on the direction that the price is going to take will be proved wrong once again
It seems you have not visited several exchanges today
. After 1 satoshi there is always another market for shitcoin that can be dump to less than 1 satoshi and that would be in Litecoin market Or Dogecoin market or other altcoin market. Though it is not in Bitcoin but still it can be dump lower than 1 satoshi. Just look at Mooncoin for example. It is lower than 1 satoshi in price but still trading at Litecoin MarketA shitcoin will just end up worth nothing
1 satoshi is the lowest price that shitcoin holders can ask to sell it for (in Bitcoin), but that doesn't mean that it is worth anything at all. As I said, it is worthless, i.e. worth nothing, zero, zip, zilch, nada. So it will be the lowest possible price against any more or less decent coin (how such one shit coin could stand against another shit is a different matter, though, but it will be a waste of time anyway). That said, I don't closely follow altcoins nowadays, I have just seen a myriad of these shitcoins at Yobit exchange with empty Bid sides of the orderbook
That's pretty much sums it up
Dumps increase volitility.
One might say volitility is what traders rely on to produce profits.
BTC's price fluctuating up and down is easier to trade and profit from than a flat line with small percentage movements.
More dumps could translate to more volitility(and possibly more volume), which in turn translates to btc and altcoins being more attractive to trade for investors.
This could be a good thing, which could imply dumps are good in terms of being volitility inducing.
yes dumps can let others have chances to buy some coin , let more people join bitcoin One might say volitility is what traders rely on to produce profits.
BTC's price fluctuating up and down is easier to trade and profit from than a flat line with small percentage movements.
More dumps could translate to more volitility(and possibly more volume), which in turn translates to btc and altcoins being more attractive to trade for investors.
This could be a good thing, which could imply dumps are good in terms of being volitility inducing.
i don,t think it is bad
Dumps increase volitility.
One might say volitility is what traders rely on to produce profits.
BTC's price fluctuating up and down is easier to trade and profit from than a flat line with small percentage movements.
More dumps could translate to more volitility(and possibly more volume), which in turn translates to btc and altcoins being more attractive to trade for investors.
This could be a good thing, which could imply dumps are good in terms of being volitility inducing.
One might say volitility is what traders rely on to produce profits.
BTC's price fluctuating up and down is easier to trade and profit from than a flat line with small percentage movements.
More dumps could translate to more volitility(and possibly more volume), which in turn translates to btc and altcoins being more attractive to trade for investors.
This could be a good thing, which could imply dumps are good in terms of being volitility inducing.
Dumps are important because in trading that is the right time to buy an altcoin then wait for a time to pump the bitcoin price because in that way you can benefit the dumpness of bitcoin where you can earn more money but make sure that you only buy those high in volume because there are some altcoin has the slow swinging movement.
Well noted with thanks, I think I will need a lesson in trading cryptocurrencies 101. I'm planning to get into active trading of bitcoins in this second half of the year so thanks for sharing and any other ideas will be appreciated. If dumping is good then I'm beginning to suspect that all those Chinese are traders too and they deliberately dump in order to make gains through trading.
Dumps are important because in trading that is the right time to buy an altcoin then wait for a time to pump the bitcoin price because in that way you can benefit the dumpness of bitcoin where you can earn more money but make sure that you only buy those high in volume because there are some altcoin has the slow swinging movement.
Well noted with thanks, I think I will need a lesson in trading cryptocurrencies 101. I'm planning to get into active trading of bitcoins in this second half of the year so thanks for sharing and any other ideas will be appreciated. If dumping is good then I'm beginning to suspect that all those Chinese are traders too and they deliberately dump in order to make gains through trading.
Not a bad idea.
I would add to that that dumps are important because they show the coin is "living".
If we had no dump what so ever how would we make the difference between a succesful coin (no dump cause no one want to let their coin on the market) and a shitty one (no dump cause no one gives a shit about buying it). Dumps regulate the price on the short term and stabilize it on the long term!
I would add to that that dumps are important because they show the coin is "living".
If we had no dump what so ever how would we make the difference between a succesful coin (no dump cause no one want to let their coin on the market) and a shitty one (no dump cause no one gives a shit about buying it). Dumps regulate the price on the short term and stabilize it on the long term!
Not all dumps are born equal
With a shitty coin, no more dump can only happen when it gets sold for just 1 satoshi in whatever amounts. That essentially means that there are no buyers for that coin altogether since you can't place a bid at a zero price. All shitty coins end up there, and if it doesn't make the final dump, it means that it is not complete shit yet. Obviously, Bitcoin dumps as of late have nothing to do with such final countdowns. I never forget to repeat that the market always fools the majority of traders, and you can be pretty sure that the current consensus on the direction that the price is going to take will be proved wrong once again
It seems you have not visited several exchanges today
. After 1 satoshi there is always another market for shitcoin that can be dump to less than 1 satoshi and that would be in Litecoin market Or Dogecoin market or other altcoin market. Though it is not in Bitcoin but still it can be dump lower than 1 satoshi. Just look at Mooncoin for example. It is lower than 1 satoshi in price but still trading at Litecoin Market. I think is can be the other way, just look at the Judas candle after the ETF decision announcement, whales may be playing with the market and looking to cause panic sell buy triggering this act of dumping on the market for them to buy at cheaper
Of course that's why you need to take responsibility for your decisions. What if you sold and it further went down, wouldn't you have bought more bitcoins back at the lower rate? Since we will all do the same why criticize the whales? I think dumps are healthy like the OP puts it to test the strength of the coin and I think Bitcoin has stood the test of time.
I think is can be the other way, just look at the Judas candle after the ETF decision announcement, whales may be playing with the market and looking to cause panic sell buy triggering this act of dumping on the market for them to buy at cheaper
Dumps are important because in trading that is the right time to buy an altcoin then wait for a time to pump the bitcoin price because in that way you can benefit the dumpness of bitcoin where you can earn more money but make sure that you only buy those high in volume because there are some altcoin has the slow swinging movement.
I agree with you - every dump has positive moments in itself. It's a good time to check the coin for strength. And also this is a good time to make purchases of coins for the future
Dumps are important because in trading that is the right time to buy an altcoin then wait for a time to pump the bitcoin price because in that way you can benefit the dumpness of bitcoin where you can earn more money but make sure that you only buy those high in volume because there are some altcoin has the slow swinging movement.
it depends, what you said it's true, but if dump are casued by big whales that manipulate for the sole purpose to buy back more coins, it would reckt the possible distribution that you are talking about
and whales are greed they always buy more when they sell, no matter how many coins they started with, after all trading is about getting more not giving them to the other
and whales are greed they always buy more when they sell, no matter how many coins they started with, after all trading is about getting more not giving them to the other
I strongly advise you to read the whole thread
It is only one page and a few posts beyond that. The issues you raise in your post have already been addressed before somewhere in the first page. Since you obviously won't read (write before read approach) and you certainly won't alone, I shortly explain it again why your issues will remain mostly theoretical. First, whales won't be the only ones buying at lows and, second, not all people buying from them at highs will be selling to them at lows. In any case, if the price goes up over time, whales will be necessarily losing coins and accumulating fiat instead. For a more detailed explanation, read the friendly thread after all
that is an assumption, you can't say that whales are not the one who would buy more, in fact they are as they are the one that are manipulating the value, you assumption is based on the fact that the price was dumped not by them, which is not my point
whales will never lose any coins if they are the direct maker of the pump and dump, we need to differentiate a market that is manipulated and causing a panic selling, and a genuine sell off
i'm sure that the other users weren't accounting this, so would be pointless to read everyone, usually i only read the OP because there is too much spam on bitocintalk
You don't need to read every poster, my posts will suffice
Other posters are still mostly posting bullshit, so you can safely skip their writings altogether. Regarding whales and whether they will be the only ones (this is what I said specifically) buying all in, this is 100% false assumption. I'm buying too, though I'm not a whale by any metric. I was selling up to the very top and started buying at the price around 1,100 dollars per coin (and stronger at below the 1,000 dollar mark), and I suspect that I'm not the only one doing that among those who don't really consider themselves as whales. In fact, quite a few people have been waiting patiently for a deep correction
When we are talking about dumps one thing comes to my mind which the price would go down to the bottom but considering on price decrease i could say its important specially on traders which they could really make money out of those movements on the price. Its actually hard to identify on when to sell out or to buy because we wont know if its the new bottom or not.
i think from dump we mean a little correction that the market will take and so the price will come down for a little time and then the price will again start increasing. 
it depends, what you said it's true, but if dump are casued by big whales that manipulate for the sole purpose to buy back more coins, it would reckt the possible distribution that you are talking about
and whales are greed they always buy more when they sell, no matter how many coins they started with, after all trading is about getting more not giving them to the other
and whales are greed they always buy more when they sell, no matter how many coins they started with, after all trading is about getting more not giving them to the other
I strongly advise you to read the whole thread
It is only one page and a few posts beyond that. The issues you raise in your post have already been addressed before somewhere in the first page. Since you obviously won't read (write before read approach) and you certainly won't alone, I shortly explain it again why your issues will remain mostly theoretical. First, whales won't be the only ones buying at lows and, second, not all people buying from them at highs will be selling to them at lows. In any case, if the price goes up over time, whales will be necessarily losing coins and accumulating fiat instead. For a more detailed explanation, read the friendly thread after all
that is an assumption, you can't say that whales are not the one who would buy more, in fact they are as they are the one that are manipulating the value, you assumption is based on the fact that the price was dumped not by them, which is not my point
whales will never lose any coins if they are the direct maker of the pump and dump, we need to differentiate a market that is manipulated and causing a panic selling, and a genuine sell off
i'm sure that the other users weren't accounting this, so would be pointless to read everyone, usually i only read the OP because there is too much spam on bitocintalk
Could be. That was a nice idea.
I always thought the dumps are just for profits of those who hold a large amount of bitcoin then they would buy back making a big pump again. Now, I got something to think of thanks for this idea.
But the problem is, they are like risking a lot of bitcoin just for the market flow? If I have that huge amount I might get too scared that I would get it back at a higher price if demands gets bigger. (just a thought)
They could still do this for now but what if suddenly they cant buy any bitcoin and all are owned by holders
I always thought the dumps are just for profits of those who hold a large amount of bitcoin then they would buy back making a big pump again. Now, I got something to think of thanks for this idea.
But the problem is, they are like risking a lot of bitcoin just for the market flow? If I have that huge amount I might get too scared that I would get it back at a higher price if demands gets bigger. (just a thought)
They could still do this for now but what if suddenly they cant buy any bitcoin and all are owned by holders
This has been discussed before
In fact, there is even a whole theory describing such a case, it is called a Bitcoin Big Rip theory. It basically claims that if there are no more sellers (i.e. their number consistently diminishes) the price will eventually lose any meaning since Bitcoin will be ripped apart by huge volatility compared in value with the price itself. And this theory seems to hold. Now, with the prices over 1,000 dollars per coin, we see huge volatilities already (literally dozens of percentages within very short periods of time) which is what this theory specifically predicts
Could be. That was a nice idea.
I always thought the dumps are just for profits of those who hold a large amount of bitcoin then they would buy back making a big pump again. Now, I got something to think of thanks for this idea.
But the problem is, they are like risking a lot of bitcoin just for the market flow? If I have that huge amount I might get too scared that I would get it back at a higher price if demands gets bigger. (just a thought)
They could still do this for now but what if suddenly they cant buy any bitcoin and all are owned by holders.
I always thought the dumps are just for profits of those who hold a large amount of bitcoin then they would buy back making a big pump again. Now, I got something to think of thanks for this idea.
But the problem is, they are like risking a lot of bitcoin just for the market flow? If I have that huge amount I might get too scared that I would get it back at a higher price if demands gets bigger. (just a thought)
They could still do this for now but what if suddenly they cant buy any bitcoin and all are owned by holders.
For me dumps are important for the other traders got the chance to buy more when its cheap so when the coins got pump they can sell it in a higher price. Most traders like to grab the chance that others are into panice selling so they can sell it and can earn profit. Thus, pumps are also important in trading industry.!
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