Topic: Why has the left wing abandoned Israel? - page 3. (Read 5693 times)

So many anti-Semites ganging up on poor, pure Israel, right? Everyone who criticizes Israel is an anti-Semite, hmmm?

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe we're not the problem, but rather thee, who can see no evil when it comes to Israel?

the only part of the Israel situation that is simple is your silly conception of it. Don't get mad at me because I have a better understanding

This war between Palestine and Israel will never end until, both sides get tired of seeing their children die. How many years has the U.S. tried to broker a deal between them? It just isn't going to happen. They must learn to live together or die together. Personally, the U.S. has spent far too much time and money on Israel. Unfortunately, we have created a monster. But that "monster" is our ally. So now what?

I would like to see us disconnect from the whole region. Let them solve their own problems.

My issue with it is that we (the US) have worked so hard to tip the scales for the Israelis, that they have not only no sense of urgency, but not even an inclination toward being willing to make any compromise toward peace. They are like the yappy little dog that fiercely barks at "intruders" while standing behind the legs of their human.

First of all, the Israelis are very aware of their own past history and specifically what happens when they put themselves at the mercy of other nations and without their own homeland or their own defense forces. They may flourish for a brief period but almost inevitably, they are made scapegoats for one reason or another and  too many times, are persecuted, made second-class citizens, driven off and sometimes, far worse. The Jews do have their own history of persecution and not just by one particular group. I seriously doubt most Jews would want to tempt fate the second time around.

Secondly, the Jewish religious aspect has already been mentioned, those Jews will never leave.

Thirdly, the political affiliation between the US and Israel. The US may do business with these Muslim countries in the Middle East but I seriously doubt our government looks upon these Muslim countries as real allies when push comes to shove, far too many religious hardliners, instability around every corner and the general antithesis between Islam and Christianity. Playing the odds, our government most likely sees Israel as the safer bet between the two factions.

As for the left-wing not supporting the State of Israel, these folks are generally much more concerned with domestic issues than foreign policy, they probably support a two-State solution for humanitarian reasons, it's a dead-end street.

The Jews aren't going anywhere and either are the Pals. They have to learn to live together or continue to die. When they finally get sick of burying their children they will make peace. Its as simple as that.

No problemo, I welcome any and all..........just don't bring any ideas intent on selfish changing of America. Throw your Zionist crap in the dumpster before getting on the plane. Why, some fools may ask..............

If anyone would like to begin to understand, here is a piece I just ran across that may spark some thought. Keep in mind that the U.S. is party to all this

In Case You Missed It
The Zionist Plan for the Middle East
Translated and edited by Israel Shahak
The plan operates on two essential premises. To survive, Israel must 1) become an imperial regional power, and 2) must effect the division of the whole area into small states by the dissolution of all existing Arab states.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33220.htm

The Israelis keep appropriating Palestinian territory.  America doesn't demand a reason why, so they continue apace.
Basically they have pushed all Palestinians into the Gaza strip and a few other ghettos (isn't that an ironic term to use here!). When  they feel like it they bomb the snot out of it and nobody takes much notice.  -  I don't know where zolace gets the idea that the liberal media condemn them, they don't.

Just google "Gaza bombing images".

As I said in an earlier post, the Israeli Jews are, and have been for some time, treating Palestinians as shabbily as Europeans a few centuries ago treated their forefathers, including an approach only a little less harsh than the holocaust.

yah big ole drama queen. If you think for a second that people are going to agree with you that Israel is the anti-Christ and the Pals innocent shepherds, my guess is that you're having hallucinations. Both sides have brought this upon themselves. since I'm the one suggesting the only practical solution: dissolving the state of Israel.

Do you have any objection to welcoming emigrating Israelis with immediate citizenship and generous resettlement packages?

the entire fucking world is tired of the U.S. giving Israel CarteBlanche protection to terrorize and murder a basically unarmed(in comparison) indigenous population. "enough blame on both sides" who and what is that ludicrous statement for? I'll give you the benefit of doubt that it is little more than part of your little mind game you like to indulge in.

If you want peace, then open the crossings to Gaza and the villages all over the West Bank, put the guns in storage and move back to the 67 border lines and institute a true democratic governance. You can be as tired, as you want to be, but the fact remains that the Zionist right wing leaders  have created this atmosphere, and if they want peace it will be up to them to do the right thing. When you have all the guns it behooves you to behave. If the U.S. were to do the right thing, then they could walk in and demand the action necessary to facilitate a peaceful resolution. Again, it boils down to Israel's refusal to take the high road again, and again, and again. They do not want peace, they want the land, they want to realize their 'Greater Israel'

It most certainly is. You know as well as I what would happen if the US just walked away from Israel--you'd leave Israel NO choice but to exercise her military might against any potential threat, which would lead to an increased spiral of violence. You know that as well as I. So when you suggest just "cutting them off", knowing that, how can you say you're not desirous of more bloodshed?

As for who is more responsible or the criminals, I, and frankly the entire fucking world, are tired of that. There's enough blame on both sides to last the next millenium--just too many weapons for them to EXIST for the next millenium. This has nothing to do with "Jews and Muslims" "Arabs and Israelis", it has to do with too many monkeys fighting over too few resources. Remove the Israelis and that fighting is likely to continue to a certain degree, but it will be between various Palestinian factions, and will not be as suicidally genocidal as it will be if each aims and fires its deadliest weapons at the other.

I say we make everyone wander around blindfolded and screw the first person they bump into for a couple nights every year. You know, a variation on the cockroach approach. They could even make it part of their ritual beliefs. Problem solved. Three generations, tops.

That's not fair or accurate, I have no desire to see more bloodshed anywhere. Israel is the occupier and oppressor here sana. Israel is the one committing a slow steady genocide against the Arab population. Just take the Gaza 2009 massacre, it was horror unmitigated crime against humanity. I'm sorry if I have no sympathy for the folks responsible. There are consequences for actions, and if you're so worried that the whole world would come down on Israel, well I guess they should have been a little more diplomatic and humane from the start instead of attacking, murdering, destroying and stealing..............all while oppressing the Arabs to the extreme.

It's too late for your MMQ theatrics. Israel does not deserve anyone's support or approval. The government of Israel is a terrorist entity. To be a prime minister even, you need to have terrorist credentials man! Your ideas are pipe dreams now, it has gone way to far.

Rigon of course you wouldn't, Because there's nothing you'd like better than to see Israel surrounded by enemies out to destroy her and without a friend in the world. You know as well as I would the end result would be. Why do you think I said what I said above?

Long and short, I'm trying to stop bloodshed, Easy, to find a way out of the spiral path to hell both peoples are on right now, and figure out a way to relieve--NOT increase--the pressures in the area. Aside of my virtuous intentions, of course, there is also the reality that the US cannot afford a charnel house in the area, not, at least, until we are off Mideast oil.

Sana, what makes you think we need to provide a solution for either of their existence? I would propose that we cut Israel free and stop spending billions of tax dollars to support their criminal activities. Leave them to their wants..........

Israel has fallen into the hands of the rightwing. Why would you expect me to support the sort of behavior that goes on in Israel?  countenance the sort of politics that so many religious parties in Israel are imposing not only on Palestinians, but on Israelis themselves? Because of Israel's Parliamentary sytem, the minority religious parties wield a disproportionate power in their ability to make or break a coalition since none of the major parties wins outright majorities. And they wield that power with a vengeance reminiscent of their OT Jehovah. Their behavior in office is akin to imposition of Islamic sharia-law, and they are asking the same sort of authority in Israel that the mullahs enjoy in Iran.

I understand why so many of the rightwingers support Israel--they need the Red Cow found (hence the attempts at breeding the same by the Texan rancher), so they can build the Third Temple, because not until the Third Temple is built and destroyed can Christ return. So they certainly don't mind the repressive theocracy that the extremist Jewish religious parties are imposing. How you can justify it, though, is beyond me.

Nor does your pipe dream of the two peoples living together have the chance of a snowball in hell. Resources are too scarce, Palestinian birthrates too high, Israel can't afford either a unitary state or a two state solution.

My solution is best--by now it should be evident to you that I'm almost always right, and I am in this situation too. Open emigration, immediate citizenship and generous resettlement packages to any Israelis who wish to leave Israel and raise their children in peace and quiet. The dissolution of the state of Israel and its replacement by an autonomous Jewish territory for the small portion of Israelis who choose to remain, guaranteed by the UN and, if necessary, US power.

then if your interest is piqued maybe you'll read another one, and then maybe you'll realize why most of the world looks down on Israel's behavior. Of course this is only if you are truly interested in learning more than the pro Israel propaganda we get in the msm here.
I criticize false declarations and try to put real rebuttals out. Not opinions, facts

Jews were, on the whole, better treated in the Middle East than their coreligionists were in Europe.
Modern Jews in Israel, on the whole, act towards Palestinians in the same way Europeans did to their forefathers.
In other words, Jews may have left Europe but their racist/theological attitudes have remained European.