Why is Bitcoin still a slave of Fiat? - page 12.

Amph

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Quote from: wearepoor on June 16, 2015, 08:31:24 PM

Quote from: stromma44 on June 16, 2015, 10:32:52 AM

Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on June 16, 2015, 06:41:54 AM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 15, 2015, 02:59:50 PM

Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on June 15, 2015, 01:52:09 PM

We need more adopter to bring bitcoin to more mainstream.

Its not about more adopter to be honest, in the end most of use who use and accept BTC will still cash it out into FIAT, therefore BTC will still be a slave of FIAT. Another thing would be that, you can buy mostly everything with FIAT but you cant buy mostly everything with BTC (which ofcourse another reason on why BTC is a slave of FIAT)

Logically that's right. Maybe bitcoin is decentralization? And digital currency?

And the other reason is that there are many alternatives available for bitcoin as a currency or a payment system like fiat, credit card etc. And fiat has ruled the world since so many years so people follow fiat more.

You need fiat to buy bitcoin and you don't need bitcoin to buy a fiat. It is as simple as that. And I don't see in coming years that bitcoin will replace fiat. It is simply to impossible.

Fiat is a traditional currency and every one follows the same since years and it is more trustworthy as compared to bitcoins. Whereas Bitcoins are new to many people and would not attract instantly until they start to know it technically.

actually no, you produce bitcoin without the need of fiat, with mining(one could argue that you need to buy the miners, but you do it one time only), with signature campaign(this is a better example) or with anything that require you to invest your time and not your money

and last but not least with bitcoin itself, with trading on stocks

eerygarden

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Quote from: wearepoor on June 16, 2015, 08:31:24 PM

Quote from: stromma44 on June 16, 2015, 10:32:52 AM

Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on June 16, 2015, 06:41:54 AM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 15, 2015, 02:59:50 PM

Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on June 15, 2015, 01:52:09 PM

We need more adopter to bring bitcoin to more mainstream.

Its not about more adopter to be honest, in the end most of use who use and accept BTC will still cash it out into FIAT, therefore BTC will still be a slave of FIAT. Another thing would be that, you can buy mostly everything with FIAT but you cant buy mostly everything with BTC (which ofcourse another reason on why BTC is a slave of FIAT)

Logically that's right. Maybe bitcoin is decentralization? And digital currency?

And the other reason is that there are many alternatives available for bitcoin as a currency or a payment system like fiat, credit card etc. And fiat has ruled the world since so many years so people follow fiat more.

You need fiat to buy bitcoin and you don't need bitcoin to buy a fiat. It is as simple as that. And I don't see in coming years that bitcoin will replace fiat. It is simply to impossible.

Fiat is a traditional currency and every one follows the same since years and it is more trustworthy as compared to bitcoins. Whereas Bitcoins are new to many people and would not attract instantly until they start to know it technically.

Slavery used to be traditional too. It is not impossible. It might be improbable, but impossible no.

BIT-Sharon

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It is the government who cantrol fiat, while Bitcoin is more a folk tool. The way for Bitcoin to boom reply on people all around, so you can't look to the government to admit and issue Bitcoin to be widely used as fiat. However, it is not bad that some government doesn't fight against it, then we could rely on the endeavors of our own to make Bitcoin widely used until one day be accepted naturally by the government, and I think we still have a long way to go.

wearepoor

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Quote from: stromma44 on June 16, 2015, 10:32:52 AM

Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on June 16, 2015, 06:41:54 AM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 15, 2015, 02:59:50 PM

Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on June 15, 2015, 01:52:09 PM

We need more adopter to bring bitcoin to more mainstream.

Its not about more adopter to be honest, in the end most of use who use and accept BTC will still cash it out into FIAT, therefore BTC will still be a slave of FIAT. Another thing would be that, you can buy mostly everything with FIAT but you cant buy mostly everything with BTC (which ofcourse another reason on why BTC is a slave of FIAT)

Logically that's right. Maybe bitcoin is decentralization? And digital currency?

And the other reason is that there are many alternatives available for bitcoin as a currency or a payment system like fiat, credit card etc. And fiat has ruled the world since so many years so people follow fiat more.

You need fiat to buy bitcoin and you don't need bitcoin to buy a fiat. It is as simple as that. And I don't see in coming years that bitcoin will replace fiat. It is simply to impossible.

Fiat is a traditional currency and every one follows the same since years and it is more trustworthy as compared to bitcoins. Whereas Bitcoins are new to many people and would not attract instantly until they start to know it technically.

stromma44

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Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on June 16, 2015, 06:41:54 AM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 15, 2015, 02:59:50 PM

Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on June 15, 2015, 01:52:09 PM

We need more adopter to bring bitcoin to more mainstream.

Its not about more adopter to be honest, in the end most of use who use and accept BTC will still cash it out into FIAT, therefore BTC will still be a slave of FIAT. Another thing would be that, you can buy mostly everything with FIAT but you cant buy mostly everything with BTC (which ofcourse another reason on why BTC is a slave of FIAT)

Logically that's right. Maybe bitcoin is decentralization? And digital currency?

And the other reason is that there are many alternatives available for bitcoin as a currency or a payment system like fiat, credit card etc. And fiat has ruled the world since so many years so people follow fiat more.

Amph

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Quote from: arallmuus on June 16, 2015, 04:20:28 AM

The same thing with FIAT and also commercial bank whereas there are tons of robbery for the bank. This is pretty much double standards, which you cant compare both because both bear a risk where you could lose it. Even if you take precautions on what necessary needed there will still be a risk for you to bear

P.S : Im more into securing it by my owns and even if I lost it , that would be my sole fault ( much better than entrusting it to a third party and lose them all the same )

it's not exactly the same, with bitcoin, you are 100% alone about your security, not to mention of those many people that are losing their money not because of thieves but because of their incompetence, or because of corrupted wallet

with bank you have your ass covered a bit, against robbery, insolvency ecc.. they only need to display a magical number and then cover you when somoeone else will deposit in their bank, basically like a legal ponzi..

i still think that for this reason many people that cannot handle bitcoin security, will turn to the future bitcoin banks or whatever they will be called...

arallmuus

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Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on June 16, 2015, 06:41:54 AM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 15, 2015, 02:59:50 PM

Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on June 15, 2015, 01:52:09 PM

We need more adopter to bring bitcoin to more mainstream.

Its not about more adopter to be honest, in the end most of use who use and accept BTC will still cash it out into FIAT, therefore BTC will still be a slave of FIAT. Another thing would be that, you can buy mostly everything with FIAT but you cant buy mostly everything with BTC (which ofcourse another reason on why BTC is a slave of FIAT)

Logically that's right. Maybe bitcoin is decentralization? And digital currency?

Centralized and/or digital currency has nothing to do with it to be honest. People will always switch their BTC into FIAT at some point even after we have a mass adoption, the reason for it would be that not everything will be always purchaseable with BTC therefore it is somewhat like an endless chain because of its need to be converted back and forth

avatar_kiyoshi

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Quote from: arallmuus on June 15, 2015, 02:59:50 PM

Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on June 15, 2015, 01:52:09 PM

We need more adopter to bring bitcoin to more mainstream.

Its not about more adopter to be honest, in the end most of use who use and accept BTC will still cash it out into FIAT, therefore BTC will still be a slave of FIAT. Another thing would be that, you can buy mostly everything with FIAT but you cant buy mostly everything with BTC (which ofcourse another reason on why BTC is a slave of FIAT)

Logically that's right. Maybe bitcoin is decentralization? And digital currency?

arallmuus

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Quote from: johnyj on June 15, 2015, 04:23:52 PM

For safe storage, bank still seems to be a good place. But lending is unlikely to be popular with bitcoin, so a bitcoin bank most likely will provide the safe storage service against a fee

Fair points, I totally missed out the points where it could act as a "storage" instead for most guys that dont know how to secure them properly but that would be like entrusting your coins to a third party and that would cross the decentralized principal for BTC isnt it? Im much more into securing your belongings by yourself anyway

P.S : Even if that so, there will still be a chance that it might be hack, or atleast another "inside job" incident

P.S2 : I may be wrong on this

Quote from: Amph on June 16, 2015, 02:20:05 AM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 15, 2015, 03:35:33 PM

Well, that would not happen because the sole reason most of us choose BTC will be because of its unique "feature" that allows you to keep your money safe ( I highly doubt that a BTC user will keep his BTC in a BTC bank if he can keep and secure it by himself ).

look how many lose their bitcoin every day due to thieves, or because of their low competency with bitcoin security, for sure another way for them to store safely their coins, would be to entrust them to their banks

The same thing with FIAT and also commercial bank whereas there are tons of robbery for the bank. This is pretty much double standards, which you cant compare both because both bear a risk where you could lose it. Even if you take precautions on what necessary needed there will still be a risk for you to bear

P.S : Im more into securing it by my owns and even if I lost it , that would be my sole fault ( much better than entrusting it to a third party and lose them all the same )

Amph

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Quote from: arallmuus on June 15, 2015, 03:35:33 PM

Well, that would not happen because the sole reason most of us choose BTC will be because of its unique "feature" that allows you to keep your money safe ( I highly doubt that a BTC user will keep his BTC in a BTC bank if he can keep and secure it by himself ).

that's the problem, you hit the nail on the head, he can't secure his bitcoin byitself, look how many lose their bitcoin every day due to thieves, or because of their low competency with bitcoin security, for sure another way for them to store safely their coins, would be to entrust them to their banks

Dotakels

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Quote from: johnyj on June 15, 2015, 04:23:52 PM

For safe storage, bank still seems to be a good place. But lending is unlikely to be popular with bitcoin, so a bitcoin bank most likely will provide the safe storage service against a fee

If you really have the necessary skill, that fee can be avoid, so does many IT experts. But it takes some effort to build a safe storage solution for non-IT people

I think the best way to keep your coin in safe storage is keeping your coins into your wallet and make an back up data of it so that it can avoid losing your coins.

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

For safe storage, bank still seems to be a good place. But lending is unlikely to be popular with bitcoin, so a bitcoin bank most likely will provide the safe storage service against a fee

If you really have the necessary skill, that fee can be avoid, so does many IT experts. But it takes some effort to build a safe storage solution for non-IT people

arallmuus

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Quote from: jayce on June 15, 2015, 03:13:16 PM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 15, 2015, 02:59:50 PM

Quote from: jayce on June 15, 2015, 01:47:29 PM

and if central bank accept bitcoin

First of all, a central bank is a bank that issued FIAT in a country which means that there is no chance for any central bank to accept BTC as well because it serves no reason for them to accept a currency that they cant control while they have their own currency which they can control

Okay, it's my fault. I mean "if central bank recognize bitcoin". If the central bank recognize bitcoin, so in other word government recognize it too, I think government will build a "central bank" for bitcoin to control it.

About central bank for BTC. I doubt that there will be any of it because BTC is decentralized to begin with but if it is about BTC bank then there is a tiny chance that it might happen (would be great if all goverment support BTC ). Actually there is one BTC bank in Switzerland which you can read the discussions here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/first-ever-bitcoin-bank-to-be-opened-in-switzerland-1074760

P.S : dont worry it is not your fault at all, I was just countering your argument about it

it happened alot in discussion and none statement is in fault for this

Quote from: Amph on June 15, 2015, 03:11:45 PM

Quote from: arallmuus on June 15, 2015, 02:59:50 PM

First of all, a central bank is a bank that issued FIAT in a country which means that there is no chance for any central bank to accept BTC as well because it serves no reason for them to accept a currency that they cant control while they have their own currency which they can control

not sure about this, this is one of those things that may change in the future, if the banks see that the majority of all their citizens, begining to use more bitcoin than fiat, they could also begin to take deposit in bitcoin and offering interest upon it

and we know people feel more secure to deposit money in a bank

Well, that would not happen because the sole reason most of us choose BTC will be because of its unique "feature" that allows you to keep your money safe ( I highly doubt that a BTC user will keep his BTC in a BTC bank if he can keep and secure it by himself ).

About the interest, where would the bank get this interest for their saver? From lending it to another guy which that serve as another reason that BTC was created is to ditch banking system that take out your money to lend it to another guy and keep the interest for themselves.

P.S : Also If you are interested in bitcoin bank then heads here for discussions https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/first-ever-bitcoin-bank-to-be-opened-in-switzerland-1074760

jayce

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Quote from: arallmuus on June 15, 2015, 02:59:50 PM

Quote from: jayce on June 15, 2015, 01:47:29 PM

and if central bank accept bitcoin

First of all, a central bank is a bank that issued FIAT in a country which means that there is no chance for any central bank to accept BTC as well because it serves no reason for them to accept a currency that they cant control while they have their own currency which they can control

Okay, it's my fault. I mean "if central bank recognize bitcoin". If the central bank recognize bitcoin, so in other word government recognize it too, I think government will build a "central bank" for bitcoin to control it.

Amph

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Quote from: arallmuus on June 15, 2015, 02:59:50 PM

First of all, a central bank is a bank that issued FIAT in a country which means that there is no chance for any central bank to accept BTC as well because it serves no reason for them to accept a currency that they cant control while they have their own currency which they can control

not sure about this, this is one of those things that may change in the future, if the banks see that the majority of all their citizens, begining to use more bitcoin than fiat, they could also begin to take deposit in bitcoin and offering interest upon it

and we know people feel more secure to deposit money in a bank

also...many always think that the banks are not interested in bitcoin because they cannot control it, the point is that they don't need to, they just need to control your money, not bitcoin itself...

torrentheaven

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Quote from: rayhan on June 15, 2015, 01:53:49 PM

Quote from: Malin Keshar on June 14, 2015, 03:07:14 AM

Quote from: eerygarden on June 13, 2015, 01:35:33 PM

Quote from: gripflierGO on June 13, 2015, 12:11:08 PM

Very rightly said and I still feel that bitcoin can never replace fiat as there are many things which you cannot buy by using bitcoin like grocery stuff and it would take a very long time when the grocerries and the small shops starts accepting bitcoin as a mode of payment and I dont think in near future that bitcoin can replace fiat.

So do you think bitcoin can never replace fiat, or that it will take a very long time to replace fiat?

Bitcoin can't replace fiat.

No central bank will issue BTC and no gov will obligate all business to accept BTC, so someone will always don't accept btc

Its not about getting it accepted by everyone. It is about bitcoins getting accepted at least by some. That will carve out the way for getting it accepted by many, And when many start accepting it, then why will remaining few wont do it? Wink

And if someone or everyone starts accepting bitcoin as a currency there is no guarantee that it can replace fiat by any means because the government and banking system will never allow it to do as they don't have control over it.

arallmuus

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Quote from: jayce on June 15, 2015, 01:47:29 PM

and if central bank accept bitcoin

First of all, a central bank is a bank that issued FIAT in a country which means that there is no chance for any central bank to accept BTC as well because it serves no reason for them to accept a currency that they cant control while they have their own currency which they can control

Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on June 15, 2015, 01:52:09 PM

We need more adopter to bring bitcoin to more mainstream.

Its not about more adopter to be honest, in the end most of use who use and accept BTC will still cash it out into FIAT, therefore BTC will still be a slave of FIAT. Another thing would be that, you can buy mostly everything with FIAT but you cant buy mostly everything with BTC (which ofcourse another reason on why BTC is a slave of FIAT)

rayhan

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Quote from: Malin Keshar on June 14, 2015, 03:07:14 AM

Quote from: eerygarden on June 13, 2015, 01:35:33 PM

Quote from: gripflierGO on June 13, 2015, 12:11:08 PM

Very rightly said and I still feel that bitcoin can never replace fiat as there are many things which you cannot buy by using bitcoin like grocery stuff and it would take a very long time when the grocerries and the small shops starts accepting bitcoin as a mode of payment and I dont think in near future that bitcoin can replace fiat.

So do you think bitcoin can never replace fiat, or that it will take a very long time to replace fiat?

Bitcoin can't replace fiat.

No central bank will issue BTC and no gov will obligate all business to accept BTC, so someone will always don't accept btc

Its not about getting it accepted by everyone. It is about bitcoins getting accepted at least by some. That will carve out the way for getting it accepted by many, And when many start accepting it, then why will remaining few wont do it? Wink

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"A slave of fiat" wow that's rude man Cheesy

We need more adopter to bring bitcoin to more mainstream.

jayce

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Quote from: Dotakels on June 15, 2015, 08:23:00 AM

Quote from: Malin Keshar on June 14, 2015, 03:07:14 AM

Bitcoin can't replace fiat.

No central bank will issue BTC and no gov will obligate all business to accept BTC, so someone will always don't accept btc

The main reason is they believe on their fiat money and they believe that they can grow their economy without adapting any currency. Or may they just not accepting bitcoin because of their own reason.

Central bank can't accept bitcoin because bitcoin doesn't need that, and if bitcoin need a bank to save it or regulate the system, bitcoin must build the bank itself. We have known central bank was handled by government, and if central bank accept bitcoin, automatically government can control it.

Topic: Why is Bitcoin still a slave of Fiat? - page 12. (Read 13933 times)