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Topic: Why is non-consensual release of personal information allowed? - page 4. (Read 9711 times)

newbie
Activity: 8
Merit: 0

*edit* just like the person who was just banned for having their message deleted 3+ times and they kept reposting it. It has less to do with the content, and more to do with the spam.

Have you completely missed the point?  If one tries to post that blockchain link, THE FORUM SOFTWARE AUTOMATICALLY BANS THE ACCOUNT.
This is the error message you get upon hitting "Save": http://i.imgur.com/EZifOg6.png

You claim that his dox are posted on bitcointalk?  Link?
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
What I find most ironic about this is that someone must've went out of his way to program the forum detecting and instantly banning users for posting what's essentially a link. There must be no other case that this is happening. I've seen this forum being flocked by xrumer bots trying to promote stuff completely not related to bitcoin, such posts wouldn't get removed until a mod saw them. Yet you make such a huge exception only for what's the alleged dox of a bitcointalk staffer because it's spam.

And please don't get me wrong. I like this forum and admire theymos, I'm not willing to attack anyone here. But a forum mod supporting doxing directly contradicts what this forum is doing with this certain link. You might as well accept that SaltySpitoon and stop trying to dodge this argument.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
As I said, there are a few threads in meta discussing Theymos' dox as well as where to find it and links, etc. Its not a secret, he has posted a lot of the info himself.

Could you please be a mensch and kindly post links to the threads ? I was not able to find his dox using the searches you described.

... or are you merely referring to the name "Michael Marquardt" being allowed to be uttered in these hallowed halls ?
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 2156
Welcome to the SaltySpitoon, how Tough are ya?

Did you not find it ironic that the post in this thread containing a link to Theymos' dox was deleted ?

How do you reconcile that with Theymos' dox apparently being "easily located and available for all to find and see elsewhere in these forums" ?

Not at all, I find it funny that people think that they can mass spam something and think that they wont be banned or at least have their posts deleted for spamming. As I said, there are a few threads in meta discussing Theymos' dox as well as where to find it and links, etc. Its not a secret, he has posted a lot of the info himself. If we all start posting "Bananas are vegetables" and people start having the post removed or are banned for repeating it, does that mean Bitcointalk has an agenda against lies about Bananas?

The results would be the same if the link was about an Alt Coin, Bananas, or Theymos or anyone else's dox for that matter.

*edit* just like the person who was just banned for having their message deleted 3+ times and they kept reposting it. It has less to do with the content, and more to do with the spam.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
Thats why they call me "Salty"Spitoon, but really I try not to call names, what I meant is that just because you couldn't find the threads, doesn't mean others couldn't.

Did you not find it ironic that the post in this thread containing a link to Theymos' dox was deleted ?

How do you reconcile that with Theymos' dox apparently being "easily located and available for all to find and see elsewhere in these forums" ?



...
the correct way to deal with something like this is...

When mods only remove thermos dick from their throats to lie through their teeth...
I'll try it my way for a bit, see how that goes Smiley

why dont you respect his opinion then and just stop posting a link to his address?
its his property and he can do anything he wants here: in case you forgot

This forum is not his property, nor has he ever claimed that it is.
So how about you STFU since you clearly don't have a clue?
Smiley

So the bundle-of-sticks (Edit -C) deletes my post.  Twice.   Sad
If not obvious, this is Dewar flask's addy

...
I found three or so mentions with basic keyword searches, Theymos, Theymos Identity, Theymos Dox, Staff/ Staff Member Dox etc. You can also try google if you would like, there are a couple threads that come up that way too. ...

Bullshit.

Fun game to try at home:

1. go to (nuked URL - we all know what happens when Thermos' dox are posted -C)

2. copy the public message attached to the last transaction.

3. try posting it on bitcointalk

4. enjoy [instantly] losing your account Smiley

Edit (spoiler): http://i.imgur.com/EZifOg6.png

~~The Streisand Experience
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 251
why dont you respect his opinion then and just stop posting a link to his address?
its his property and he can do anything he wants here: in case you forgot

This forum is not his property, nor has he ever claimed that it is.
So how about you STFU since you clearly don't have a clue?
Smiley


the correct way to deal with something like this is to discuss the problem. not cry and repost over and over again: thats childish...

and its his server: his decision whats saved there Wink
you are free to make your own forum and post any dox you wish.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 2156
Welcome to the SaltySpitoon, how Tough are ya?
Again, read what I said earlier. No one wants to post false Dox. There is no rational reason to post false dox. If a mistake was made, the person posting it would want to correct it asap. There is absolutely no logical reason to post false dox and stand by it. If I scammed you and you posted my dox, would you take my word for it if I told you it was false?

I'll reply to the rest of your comment later as it appears we're not speaking the same language. There is every incentive to post false information alongside a dox, or to post non public information and claim its a dox. Watch this:

"This scammer SaltySpitoon, sold me a bitcoin miner 6 months ago and now I don't want it. He is a scammer and he shot my chicken in the face. I want my money back or I will post his information". And then that gets indexed by search engines. If you pay me, I get money. If you don't then I post your dox alongside my false information and your real name (Ytlas Nootips) is forever tainted even when you conclusively prove I just made that up and you don't even have a chicken.

But again if someone did the above with an alt account to a staff member they'd be banned and the thread deleted. You know that's exactly what would happen, we can even run the experiment if there are any admin volunteers.

You are saying what would someone's motivation be to falsely accuse someone, I was addressing why would anyone ever post incorrect dox. If I scammed someone, and they posted the dox of Sally from Latvia (not me by the way) I'd be tickled that they are blaming someone else. So as far as IDing the wrong person, I mean there is no reason why anyone would do that intentionally. No one moderates false claims, it again is up to individuals to clear there own names. So in the case above, you post your counterstory, if I'm falsely claiming that I should get my money back, I lose my credibility. Your argument could be said about scam accusations and all other things. It is the cost of doing business pseudononymously. It comes back down to what recourse people have. Hurting people's means of personal investigation means there is no recourse for anyone.

Nope, there is a meta thread in meta named something along the lines of Staff Member information, or Staff Dox, and it has info about 3 or 4 staff members, including volunteered information. Again, that thread has Theymos' dox in it as well. Even though people can't find these threads, I've posted in them personally, so they weren't just threads I've seen in passing.
Weak.
You are the people I was refering to.

So salty...

Thats why they call me "Salty"Spitoon, but really I try not to call names, what I meant is that just because you couldn't find the threads, doesn't mean others couldn't.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 251
why dont you respect his opinion then and just stop posting a link to his address?
its his property and he can do anything he wants here: in case you forgot
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
Nope, there is a meta thread in meta named something along the lines of Staff Member information, or Staff Dox, and it has info about 3 or 4 staff members, including volunteered information. Again, that thread has Theymos' dox in it as well. Even though people can't find these threads, I've posted in them personally, so they weren't just threads I've seen in passing.
Weak.
You are the people I was refering to.

So salty...
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
Again, read what I said earlier. No one wants to post false Dox. There is no rational reason to post false dox. If a mistake was made, the person posting it would want to correct it asap. There is absolutely no logical reason to post false dox and stand by it. If I scammed you and you posted my dox, would you take my word for it if I told you it was false?

I'll reply to the rest of your comment later as it appears we're not speaking the same language. There is every incentive to post false information alongside a dox, or to post non public information and claim its a dox. Watch this:

"This scammer SaltySpitoon, sold me a bitcoin miner 6 months ago and now I don't want it. He is a scammer and he shot my chicken in the face. I want my money back or I will post his information". And then that gets indexed by search engines. If you pay me, I get money. If you don't then I post your dox alongside my false information and your real name (Ytlas Nootips) is forever tainted even when you conclusively prove I just made that up and you don't even have a chicken.

But again if someone did the above with an alt account to a staff member they'd be banned and the thread deleted. You know that's exactly what would happen, we can even run the experiment if there are any admin volunteers.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 2156
Welcome to the SaltySpitoon, how Tough are ya?
Nope, there is a meta thread in meta named something along the lines of Staff Member information, or Staff Dox, and it has info about 3 or 4 staff members, including volunteered information. Again, that thread has Theymos' dox in it as well. Even though people can't find these threads, I've posted in them personally, so they weren't just threads I've seen in passing.

Weak.


You are the people I was refering to.

I understand your point about account selling saltyspitoon, i have seen it a few times but im still skeptical about it, i understand the forum cant stop people from selling accounts but forbidding it would make it way harder for people to sell accounts and im sure less acounts would be sold.

It wouldn't make a difference. Even if account sales were banned it wouldn't stop it or even barely put a dint in it. All that would happen is accounts will be sold off site. At least it's safer here as you can use an escrow, but when people are selling them via skype or their crappy sites they set up many people will just get scammed.

Who cares if someone gets scammed doing something against the rules? If account selling were banned why care?

While account buying/selling is sort of off topic, its not about whether people get scammed buying/selling the accounts, it truely is about it being unenforceable. People could buy/sell accounts on site with PGP or whatever else. Those that would be at greater risk of being scammed, are those that believe account buying/selling doesn't happen because it is against the rules, and trades blindly with those they have traded with before.

How? If you're not willing to remove or even mod edit proven wrongful accusations or even archive them, what can anyone do?


Why should I be responsible for fact checking and what makes me reliable enough to do so? What if someone pays me off to remove their info whether its correct or not? What if I remove information that is correct and it leads to further issues, am I responsible? These issues can all be removed by having people do their own work.


Yes? They're how normal people without moderator powers IRL enforce their rights. Malicious prosecution will get your ass handed to you so the answer is absolutely yes and to try and compare a lawsuit to a dox is just silly. A dox is there to damage the other party, it serves no purpose.
Dox gives accountability to the person behind the name, not a pseudonym.

That's a weird way of looking at it. Approximately 20% of the US reports having been abused in one form of another, Assuming a 1:1 abuser victim ratio, would it be justifiable for one of those crazies to run over 5 people with the excuse that they were trying to kill a child abuser? My point is you're justifying anyone and everyone being able to be doxed without cause, because there will be some people who "deserve it".
Lucky for us, this is an online forum and running over someone in a car is difficult. My point is, when people dox someone, there tends to be a reason. If they post the wrong dox, they have personal motivation to correct it. If you had scammed me, and I blamed John Doe from Uruguay, posted their info, and it was proven to be incorrect, why would I not try and find your true info and remove the false info? Theres no rational reason to post false dox intentionally, its completely counterproductive. If someone makes a mistake in doxing and its proven wrong, I would think they would try to correct it immediately if not sooner.

So I just spent 30 minutes looking for these threads by all sorts of keywords, search engines etc. I even looked through all of your posts back to 2013, its not there. The closest I could find was a 2011 thread where people put their real names against their pseudonyms and some very basic information. So it looks like someone has either deleted, delisted or archived these actual doxes.

That is my point, if they're not findable then they're not damaging or a problem to anyone. Trying to compare that to people posting infinitely more complex doxes along with doctored, false and private information alongside fabricated and malicious claims is just condescending. Its also likely illegal that on notice of the offending content, the forum refuses to remove it.


I found three or so mentions with basic keyword searches, Theymos, Theymos Identity, Theymos Dox, Staff/ Staff Member Dox etc. You can also try google if you would like, there are a couple threads that come up that way too. There is also a false dox on Theymos accusing him of being a senator or something like that (skimmed but didn't read). You must not have been searching very hard, as I wasn't.

How about archive doxes once they've served (if any) their purpose or been proven to be false?

tldr: Admins felt that a basic thread listing who they were was offending enough to archive or delete, yet won't consider archiving or deleting known malicious or false doxes of others.

Again, read what I said earlier. No one wants to post false Dox. There is no rational reason to post false dox. If a mistake was made, the person posting it would want to correct it asap. There is absolutely no logical reason to post false dox and stand by it. If I scammed you and you posted my dox, would you take my word for it if I told you it was false?
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
Yeah, I'd generally agree that people do not want to be doxed. The people that are doxed are generally those accused of scamming. Every scammer says they are innocent, those wrongfully accused can generally clear things up pretty easily.
How? If you're not willing to remove or even mod edit proven wrongful accusations or even archive them, what can anyone do?


Are lawsuits anything other than malicious? Should they still happen even though they are "attacking" someone?
Yes? They're how normal people without moderator powers IRL enforce their rights. Malicious prosecution will get your ass handed to you so the answer is absolutely yes and to try and compare a lawsuit to a dox is just silly. A dox is there to damage the other party, it serves no purpose.


Generally if you commit a crime, (Scamming is the major one here) people dox you. I'd say fair is fair.
That's a weird way of looking at it. Approximately 20% of the US reports having been abused in one form of another, Assuming a 1:1 abuser victim ratio, would it be justifiable for one of those crazies to run over 5 people with the excuse that they were trying to kill a child abuser? My point is you're justifying anyone and everyone being able to be doxed without cause, because there will be some people who "deserve it".


Nope, there is a meta thread in meta named something along the lines of Staff Member information, or Staff Dox, and it has info about 3 or 4 staff members, including volunteered information. Again, that thread has Theymos' dox in it as well.
So I just spent 30 minutes looking for these threads by all sorts of keywords, search engines etc. I even looked through all of your posts back to 2013, its not there. The closest I could find was a 2011 thread where people put their real names against their pseudonyms and some very basic information. So it looks like someone has either deleted, delisted or archived these actual doxes.


Even though people can't find these threads, I've posted in them personally, so they weren't just threads I've seen in passing.
That is my point, if they're not findable then they're not damaging or a problem to anyone. Trying to compare that to people posting infinitely more complex doxes along with doctored, false and private information alongside fabricated and malicious claims is just condescending. Its also likely illegal that on notice of the offending content, the forum refuses to remove it.


Tricky one, again that comes back to a plethora of other issues. I don't really have a solution for that one, all ideas that I can think of would be far worse than just how it is now.
How about archive doxes once they've served (if any) their purpose or been proven to be false?


tldr: Admins felt that a basic thread listing who they were was offending enough to archive or delete, yet won't consider archiving or deleting known malicious or false doxes of others.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
Nope, there is a meta thread in meta named something along the lines of Staff Member information, or Staff Dox, and it has info about 3 or 4 staff members, including volunteered information. Again, that thread has Theymos' dox in it as well. Even though people can't find these threads, I've posted in them personally, so they weren't just threads I've seen in passing.

Weak.
global moderator
Activity: 3990
Merit: 2717
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I know what you meant but people still don't deserve to be scammed. There would also be those who get scammed because they're unaware that account sales happen when they blindly trust an account so it will give people a false sense of security.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1119
Well I meant if selling accounts were banned.
global moderator
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I understand your point about account selling saltyspitoon, i have seen it a few times but im still skeptical about it, i understand the forum cant stop people from selling accounts but forbidding it would make it way harder for people to sell accounts and im sure less acounts would be sold.

It wouldn't make a difference. Even if account sales were banned it wouldn't stop it or even barely put a dint in it. All that would happen is accounts will be sold off site. At least it's safer here as you can use an escrow, but when people are selling them via skype or their crappy sites they set up many people will just get scammed.

Who cares if someone gets scammed doing something against the rules? If account selling were banned why care?

People don't deserve to be scammed, but it's not against the rules so it's besides the point. Banning account sales changes absolutely nothing at all.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1119
I understand your point about account selling saltyspitoon, i have seen it a few times but im still skeptical about it, i understand the forum cant stop people from selling accounts but forbidding it would make it way harder for people to sell accounts and im sure less acounts would be sold.

It wouldn't make a difference. Even if account sales were banned it wouldn't stop it or even barely put a dint in it. All that would happen is accounts will be sold off site. At least it's safer here as you can use an escrow, but when people are selling them via skype or their crappy sites they set up many people will just get scammed.

Who cares if someone gets scammed doing something against the rules? If account selling were banned why care?
global moderator
Activity: 3990
Merit: 2717
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
I understand your point about account selling saltyspitoon, i have seen it a few times but im still skeptical about it, i understand the forum cant stop people from selling accounts but forbidding it would make it way harder for people to sell accounts and im sure less acounts would be sold.

It wouldn't make a difference. Even if account sales were banned it wouldn't stop it or even barely put a dint in it. All that would happen is accounts will be sold off site. At least it's safer here as you can use an escrow, but when people are selling them via skype or their crappy sites they set up many people will just get scammed.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 2156
Welcome to the SaltySpitoon, how Tough are ya?

So you've generally agreed that people do not want to be doxed, regardless of if they've done anything wrong or not.

Yeah, I'd generally agree that people do not want to be doxed. The people that are doxed are generally those accused of scamming. Every scammer says they are innocent, those wrongfully accused can generally clear things up pretty easily.

And then answered the point of doxes on here - to be malicious. Has there even ever been a non malicious dox on here that wasn't designed to cause harm and to do anything helpful? And when those malicious doxes have been proved to be malicious, you guys still leave them up.
So looping round again, would the policy chance if the doxes of every staff member were subsequently accumulated? ...The point of that question is to provoke some sensible thinking on the issue, rather than to threaten. Buuuuut if that question could even be remotely be perceived as a threat, the answer is yes and the policy needs to be changed.
Are lawsuits anything other than malicious? Should they still happen even though they are "attacking" someone? Its not a black and white question. There are certain cases I've seen where the people very obviously deserved to be doxed. Generally if you commit a crime, (Scamming is the major one here) people dox you. I'd say fair is fair.
Nope, there is a meta thread in meta named something along the lines of Staff Member information, or Staff Dox, and it has info about 3 or 4 staff members, including volunteered information. Again, that thread has Theymos' dox in it as well. Even though people can't find these threads, I've posted in them personally, so they weren't just threads I've seen in passing.

Quote
Not that I necessarily disagree, but there isn't a screening process. Who should be in charge of fact checking to make sure the right person is doxed, and that the information is accurate? If you do post inaccurate info, I suppose you lose credibility? Thats something of a consequence.

And there the problem is:
1. The person posting the said dox is fully responsible.
2. A throw away account doesn't suffer much consequence. Somewhere around 0%.

Tricky one, again that comes back to a plethora of other issues. I don't really have a solution for that one, all ideas that I can think of would be far worse than just how it is now.

I understand your point about account selling saltyspitoon, i have seen it a few times but im still skeptical about it, i understand the forum cant stop people from selling accounts but forbidding it would make it way harder for people to sell accounts and im sure less acounts would be sold. A lot of accounts are sold without anyone knowing even here in the forum. I understand that people, almost everyone that invests in ponzi schemes know what they are dealing with but that doesnt mean it should be allowed.

Again, this is another issue, but Bitcoin in general is about financial freedoms. We don't feel the need to tell people what they can or can't spend their money on. If you want to put your house as collateral in a poker game with a pair of twos, maybe I personally would advise against it, but anyone is welcome to make whatever stupid payments for anything that they want. The ponzi section got its own section because "legit" dice/poker sites and such said that the ponzi listings were flooding the section and they couldn't get in any discussion over the flood of ponzi spam. Nothing more, nothing less.

hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
I understand your point about account selling saltyspitoon, i have seen it a few times but im still skeptical about it, i understand the forum cant stop people from selling accounts but forbidding it would make it way harder for people to sell accounts and im sure less acounts would be sold. A lot of accounts are sold without anyone knowing even here in the forum. I understand that people, almost everyone that invests in ponzi schemes know what they are dealing with but that doesnt mean it should be allowed.
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