Why Online Slots Are Not Provably fair? - page 2.

GreatArkansas

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Quote from: memehunter on September 24, 2024, 06:14:54 AM

I do not think the majority of online slot providers are provably fair (please correct me if I am wrong). As per my research, only BGaming (among the top 10 slot providers) allows you to verify slot outcomes using provably fair technology. Most of them claim to have third-party verification, but there is no way for a player to verify. Why aren't major slot providers like Pragmatic, Hacksaw, Microgaming, etc. adopting this system? It would only boost their credibility and transparency.
(....)

Yes, a few weeks ago I also asked this kind of question in our local section because here in our country, most of the gambling games that playing of my fellow countrymen also come from 3rd party providers, and these 3rd party providers, don't provide the ability to check the and verify provably fair technology. The slot game inside of BCGaming does not use 3rd party providers like Pragmatic so for me, that's better if you want to verify the provably fair.

This is also the reason why I'm not a fan of playing in 3rd party providers because you can't verify the provably fair.

alani123

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Because slots players have ridiculous standards.
They will play games that look flashy or have their favorite heroes but won't care at all if a game is rigged or not. The slots gambler is a different breed from the crypto gambler and many people came into crypto gambling just becsuse of slots now also so it's starting to change as well.
.back in the day provable fairness was everything, but the crazy way slots are marketed changed this.

Lanatsa

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Quote from: madnessteat on September 24, 2024, 10:36:32 AM

Quote from: retreat on September 24, 2024, 10:24:55 AM

Most of the players just think about playing the game without thinking about such complicated things - if they win, then it's their luck, and if they lose then it's their bad luck - that's usually the thinking of slot players. And moreover, aren't operators unfair from the start? I mean, they have a house edge, meaning no matter how you play, they will win. That's why I don't want to think too far to question the fairness or not of the casino I play because whatever casino it is, they have a house edge and they are the ones who always win compared to the gamblers.

Yes, the casino has an advantage over the gambler, but that does not mean that all their operations are conducted honestly, so some people and want the process of the game was more transparent. I quite understand such people although I myself I am not very interested in this as I try to play only in casinos with a good reputation. You could say that I take their word for it. The desires of such people are quite understandable, as they are used to full transparency in the cryptocurrency sphere, so they demand that casinos have the ability to provide evidence of fair play.

Thats why we do really have those hash verification if ever you do have some doubts specially on dice/crash games or other luck related types of games but if we do speak about slots
then there's no way that you could be able to verify the fairness of those slot games on which those codes are internal and not something that could be shown in public for it to be verified.

We've seen some new threads recent ago that a certain site/platform and its provider had been fined for $19k just because of the slot game which the winning percentage or odds is 0.
On which it did really result that to those players who do make out such play or engagement didnt able to win up even a single and this what raises up the concern and petition on which
it do ends up that the code been set is really that not right.

People will really be able to distinguish it out but in overall the house would really be always have the advantage. They are the winners in the end of the line.
One of the reasons on why i dont really find myself that getting interested too much with slot games because of that very slim chance on winning up or being profitable.

red4slash

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When you play slots then you must be aware that the probability of losing will be much greater than the gain so why talk about justice in this case because after all this is gambling and we only expect luck in this case.

We as gamblers must be aware that such consequences and there will be no justice in any form when playing gambling because it is necessary to realize that gambling games are only as our satisfaction to test how lucky we are in the round that is done. Especially when talking about slots.

The choice is simple actually when you feel unfair then don't play and switch to another gambling game because for gambling not only slots are interesting but there are still many games that can be done that might be fair in your view.

Agbamoni

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Quote from: Zadicar on September 24, 2024, 01:09:00 PM

Playing gambling was never meant to make money in the first place. If you do tend to have that kind of perception or approach that you could be able to win up and make yourself rich
then you are really that bound on trying to wreck up your life because of gambling and this is something that you should realize in the first place. Online slots are not provably fair?
Of course they would really be always have the edge on which you would really be losing more the longer you do play and this is something thats normal. Somehow there would really be
those instances or situations on which a gambler could be able to hit up a jackpot or big amount and thats why on the moment that this thing happens then you should really know on when
to take profits and secure it out.

Most gamblers intend that they want to make a profit from gambling. Excluding those who keep deceiving themselves that they are into gambling for fun. But anyone with the mindset of gambling to get rich or with the assurance that their financial level will be disappointed in the end. Gambling should be an activity we do sometimes not because we rely on it to give us the money that we would use for our daily expenses or to make wealth but because it will serve as an aid to what we need money for.

To be safer, we should be fully hopeful in gambling no matter how good we are and how long we take to analyze every game we choose before gambling. It is strictly based on luck which is why we should expect that the game might be lost or won. I still don't like slot games because i feel they are more manipulated compared to other games in the casino platform.

goldkingcoiner

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Casino games cannot willy-nilly decide how fair a game can or cannot be. There are rules and regulations in place that dictate the terms under which casinos must operate. But these terms can be different for different countries.

As I understand it, the casinos are always being checked for fairness.

taufik123

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Quote from: OgNasty on September 24, 2024, 02:17:38 PM

I don’t think you can make the statement that online slots are or aren’t provably fair. There are so many different options that are no doubt all different in the way they determine winners and losers. Some are likely not operating fairly while others are proven to be fair to their players. Just do your research if you’re concerned about it.

Casinos that do not operate fairly are illegal casinos that are not regulated by regulators and do not receive any audits, so the illegal casinos can cheat players.

Meanwhile, casinos that are legal and get independent audits periodically provide RTP (Return to Player) in accordance with regulatory provisions so that players can get the opportunities they deserve.

Many illegal casinos do manipulate the RTP that they apply, so it will be more profitable for illegal casinos such as in slot games that are already programmed for bigger casino winnings.

The average RTP usage for Legal casinos that have been audited in accordance with regulations is above 95%,
such as Rollbit casinos, Roobet, stakes etc.

Rollbit:
- Sweet Bonanza with an RTP of 96.51%.
- Juicy Fruits also has an RTP of 96.51%.
- Fruit Party with an RTP of 96.47%.
- Roulette has an RTP of 95%,
- Lightning Roulette from Evolution Gaming has an RTP of 97.10%
https://blog.rollbit.com/house-edge-and-rtp-explained/

Roobet:
- Sweet Bonanza has an RTP of 96.6%)
- Razor Shark has an RTP of 96.7%
- Gates of Olympus has an RTP of 96.5%
Roobet also offers exclusive games and progressive jackpots that are popular with players.
https://www.completesports.com/reviews/roobet/best-slots/

Stakes:
- Big Bad Wolf has an RTP of 97.34%
- The Dog House Megaways has an RTP of 96.55%
- Gonzo's Quest Megaways has an RTP of 95.77%
https://www.completesports.com/reviews/roobet/best-slots/

swogerino

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I would love to see Pragmatic too offering such way of verifying things as they have gone completely crazy and out of their mind in their latest releases and also in their previous slots you can see that the RTP has drastically decreased for many players in many different casinos, of course they will not add such system as they will be flagged as completely rigged by the majority of gamblers, they don't tell you the hit frequency like No Limit City does and a few others which tells you exactly what to expect like how many wins can you expect out of ten spins for example and you can do your own calculations. You will not find such providers lacking transparency in a brutal way (I don't know what happened to them as they were the provider where you could hit the max win much more easily than any other provider) and things changed exactly after January 2024. I would definitely love to see that system implemented in all major slot providers.

leonair

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Quote from: memehunter on September 24, 2024, 06:14:54 AM

I do not think the majority of online slot providers are provably fair (please correct me if I am wrong). As per my research, only BGaming (among the top 10 slot providers) allows you to verify slot outcomes using provably fair technology. Most of them claim to have third-party verification, but there is no way for a player to verify. Why aren't major slot providers like Pragmatic, Hacksaw, Microgaming, etc. adopting this system? It would only boost their credibility and transparency.
I mean, there is a widespread belief that online slots are rigged, but no one says that about dice games because of provably fair technology, so why not do the same for slots? I am not saying third-party test labs are not doing their jobs; all I am saying is that there is no way for a player to verify (which could easily be done using provably fair technology), so why not have both? Or am I asking too much? Grin

. I mean, come on, we all had this feeling;

In slots games, an invisible machine gambles with you. And I can say that you just bet blindly on Win Expectation because I don't see any way to predict here. It can only be tracked how many wins they give after losses most of the time. But even tracking it doesn't help much. Because of this, it is completely up to luck to win in slots games. But it's a lot of fun to play as there are occasional big unbelievable wins here. This is the specialty of slots game. Those who can win here because of a good luck think slots game is fair. But for those who don't have good luck and always lose I think it's not fair

OgNasty

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I don’t think you can make the statement that online slots are or aren’t provably fair. There are so many different options that are no doubt all different in the way they determine winners and losers. Some are likely not operating fairly while others are proven to be fair to their players. Just do your research if you’re concerned about it.

CryptoHeadlineNews

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Quote from: panjul07 on September 24, 2024, 10:30:16 AM

I dont think most players will care about it because as what we can see ourselves that slot games are played by so many people even though there is no provably fair system.

Yes, that's, because inasmuch as other gamblers have gambled on the same slot games by these providers and won huge, it will be literally hard for them to believe these games aren't probably fairly, which is what gambling is all about, as you can either win big or lose big, depending on how lucky or unlucky you are, since the aspect of luck can never be always be eradicated from it, be it probably fair or not, which is why gambling is seen to be a lucrative industry due house-edge.

irsykes

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Quote from: zuzie on September 24, 2024, 09:44:13 AM

Quote from: TribalBob on September 24, 2024, 09:34:46 AM

Quote from: irsykes on September 24, 2024, 09:19:10 AM

Quote from: ethereumhunter on September 24, 2024, 08:45:56 AM

I am not think much about that because slot game is one of gambling games which is based on the luck. You don't have to think much about provably fair or not because that will make you can not accept when you lose your money. That will make you search for how to verify the game and you will not enjoy the game because you always think about provably fair.

Gamblers will think about how they can win the slot game and how they can withdraw their money. Maybe some gamblers will trying to verify the provably fair but they should remember that will need time before they can prove it.

slot games do not need strategy or tricks in my opinion it is true that slot games are just a matter of luck. The RTP of the game is not a guarantee that a big win will come. because the concept of a different algorithm slot, just waiting for the time given a big win will happen. but no one knows because they control the machine. there will be time lost and everything will come back

I don't know where people came from saying that slots use tricks because in reality slot games only end with luck, not using tricks or anything, where players just scroll and scroll

In my opinion, slots only rely on courage and confidence, meaning that they are very sure that the slot game they choose will bring them luck even though they have dared to bet quite a lot of money there so that they are very busy and too focused on pursuing that luck even though behind the slot the dealer has made a trick where the slot game is not easily obtained by gamblers, maybe only a few will be lucky there.

personal experience seeing friends in the environment who often play slot gambling. what I catch material, when repeated defeats to achieve a big win target can happen but do not know it will happen. the dealer system may have historical data on members who lose and win. which prepares the time when a lucky day will occur, but statistically the money back may only be 80%/90%

Zadicar

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Quote from: memehunter on September 24, 2024, 06:14:54 AM

I do not think the majority of online slot providers are provably fair (please correct me if I am wrong). As per my research, only BGaming (among the top 10 slot providers) allows you to verify slot outcomes using provably fair technology. Most of them claim to have third-party verification, but there is no way for a player to verify. Why aren't major slot providers like Pragmatic, Hacksaw, Microgaming, etc. adopting this system? It would only boost their credibility and transparency.
I mean, there is a widespread belief that online slots are rigged, but no one says that about dice games because of provably fair technology, so why not do the same for slots? I am not saying third-party test labs are not doing their jobs; all I am saying is that there is no way for a player to verify (which could easily be done using provably fair technology), so why not have both? Or am I asking too much? Grin

. I mean, come on, we all had this feeling;
~~~

Playing gambling was never meant to make money in the first place. If you do tend to have that kind of perception or approach that you could be able to win up and make yourself rich
then you are really that bound on trying to wreck up your life because of gambling and this is something that you should realize in the first place. Online slots are not provably fair?
Of course they would really be always have the edge on which you would really be losing more the longer you do play and this is something thats normal. Somehow there would really be
those instances or situations on which a gambler could be able to hit up a jackpot or big amount and thats why on the moment that this thing happens then you should really know on when
to take profits and secure it out.

Davidvictorson

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I don't know so much about this and I may be completely wrong. Therefore I stand to be corrected. First if one plays in a highly reputable casino they do not have to be worried about provably fair of the slot. Secondly to the best of my understanding random number generators" (RNGs) are one of the features of slot games that to an extent can be used to measure the fairness of a game. And reputable casinos always have the randomness displayed in the game window. Anyways what do I know, one can always reach out to their customer agent to ask about these things and get clarifications better than our responses here.

the rise

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There is still a lot we don't know about how slot operations work, so it's hard to say whether it's fair or unfair, slot games are very easy to play, just a little touch and the image will spin, so it's only natural that slot games are popular with many people, we are looking for justice because we keep losing, right? Grin

madnessteat

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Quote from: retreat on September 24, 2024, 10:24:55 AM

Most of the players just think about playing the game without thinking about such complicated things - if they win, then it's their luck, and if they lose then it's their bad luck - that's usually the thinking of slot players. And moreover, aren't operators unfair from the start? I mean, they have a house edge, meaning no matter how you play, they will win. That's why I don't want to think too far to question the fairness or not of the casino I play because whatever casino it is, they have a house edge and they are the ones who always win compared to the gamblers.

Yes, the casino has an advantage over the gambler, but that does not mean that all their operations are conducted honestly, so some people and want the process of the game was more transparent. I quite understand such people although I myself I am not very interested in this as I try to play only in casinos with a good reputation. You could say that I take their word for it. The desires of such people are quite understandable, as they are used to full transparency in the cryptocurrency sphere, so they demand that casinos have the ability to provide evidence of fair play.

Jawhead999

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Quote from: retreat on September 24, 2024, 10:24:55 AM

Most of the players just think about playing the game without thinking about such complicated things - if they win, then it's their luck, and if they lose then it's their bad luck - that's usually the thinking of slot players. And moreover, aren't operators unfair from the start? I mean, they have a house edge, meaning no matter how you play, they will win. That's why I don't want to think too far to question the fairness or not of the casino I play because whatever casino it is, they have a house edge and they are the ones who always win compared to the gamblers.

Yep, I think if all gamblers do aware what's house edge and it's impact, I'm expect most people will quit gambling immediately since it's really stupid to think gambling can be a source of income. Not many gamblers are playing for fun because they always regret and bad mood when they lose their bets.

Even the providers allow the gamblers to verify their bets, I'm not sure they will use that tools.

panjul07

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As a slot player who have started playing slot since years ago, this question came to my mind as well but I cant get the real answer till now.
IMO, the possible reason is because it can be because it is too complicated to have provably fair system in slot so the developer of the provider use simple RNG system.
By the way even if most slot providers provide provably fair system, I dont think most players will care about it because as what we can see ourselves that slot games are played by so many people even though there is no provably fair system.

retreat

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Most of the players just think about playing the game without thinking about such complicated things - if they win, then it's their luck, and if they lose then it's their bad luck - that's usually the thinking of slot players. And moreover, aren't operators unfair from the start? I mean, they have a house edge, meaning no matter how you play, they will win. That's why I don't want to think too far to question the fairness or not of the casino I play because whatever casino it is, they have a house edge and they are the ones who always win compared to the gamblers.

zuzie

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Quote from: TribalBob on September 24, 2024, 09:34:46 AM

Quote from: irsykes on September 24, 2024, 09:19:10 AM

Quote from: ethereumhunter on September 24, 2024, 08:45:56 AM

I am not think much about that because slot game is one of gambling games which is based on the luck. You don't have to think much about provably fair or not because that will make you can not accept when you lose your money. That will make you search for how to verify the game and you will not enjoy the game because you always think about provably fair.

Gamblers will think about how they can win the slot game and how they can withdraw their money. Maybe some gamblers will trying to verify the provably fair but they should remember that will need time before they can prove it.

slot games do not need strategy or tricks in my opinion it is true that slot games are just a matter of luck. The RTP of the game is not a guarantee that a big win will come. because the concept of a different algorithm slot, just waiting for the time given a big win will happen. but no one knows because they control the machine. there will be time lost and everything will come back

I don't know where people came from saying that slots use tricks because in reality slot games only end with luck, not using tricks or anything, where players just scroll and scroll

In my opinion, slots only rely on courage and confidence, meaning that they are very sure that the slot game they choose will bring them luck even though they have dared to bet quite a lot of money there so that they are very busy and too focused on pursuing that luck even though behind the slot the dealer has made a trick where the slot game is not easily obtained by gamblers, maybe only a few will be lucky there.

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