Why Satoshi's coins will never hit the market

dunfida

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Quote from: Cassius on October 31, 2019, 05:20:45 PM

Quote from: KennyR on October 31, 2019, 08:36:23 AM

We can't say that holdings of Satoshi hasn't hit the market. Till date we don't know exactly the holdings that belongs to Satoshi. With some data a wallet is termed to be his own wallet. Upon the same we can't conclude he hasn't got any other wallets. There is more chances for the bitcoin to hit the market than being idle in a wallet.

Actually there's some good research into Satoshi's mining activities. It's very compelling and the coins haven't moved.

I highly believe that the public doesnt even know the entire number of wallet possession of satoshi. There are a few numbers shown

but we can see that the coins werent moved yet as of now.We dont know if those wallets are already lost or just being reserved to be spent
by its owner.

Also,i dont see why people are really eager to know if those coins will move or not yet the founder/owner do had the full rights on how he
gonna spend up his money but somehow seeing those coins moved does shows or prove out that satoshi is just watching his own creation and
the entire crypto community.

Cassius

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Quote from: KennyR on October 31, 2019, 08:36:23 AM

We can't say that holdings of Satoshi hasn't hit the market. Till date we don't know exactly the holdings that belongs to Satoshi. With some data a wallet is termed to be his own wallet. Upon the same we can't conclude he hasn't got any other wallets. There is more chances for the bitcoin to hit the market than being idle in a wallet.

Actually there's some good research into Satoshi's mining activities. It's very compelling and the coins haven't moved.

KennyR

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We can't say that holdings of Satoshi hasn't hit the market. Till date we don't know exactly the holdings that belongs to Satoshi. With some data a wallet is termed to be his own wallet. Upon the same we can't conclude he hasn't got any other wallets. There is more chances for the bitcoin to hit the market than being idle in a wallet.

Peter Sm.

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Quote from: Cassius on March 24, 2015, 05:47:16 AM

Evidence suggests his ~1 million BTC were mined into throwaway addresses:
https://bitscan.com/articles/satoshis-millions-gone-for-good

Bitcoin's creator(s) is (are) smart enough so if he/they would spend some of coins they can do it OTC market.

Raize

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I don't think this article adequately explains why these coins would actually never hit the market. It basically ends with a "well, they haven't moved yet so why would they now?"

Odalv

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In Bitcoin, a private key is a 256-bit number. It is 32 bytes.

20,000 private keys * 32 bytes = 640 000 bytes. ( 0.5 MB )

==
It is less amount of data than 1 block in blockchain

BitcoinFX

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https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF

All of said 20,000 individual 50 BTC mined blocks would or could be to addresses on one single wallet.dat i.e. you wouldn't even need to know any of the private keys.

On a single wallet.dat a new BTC address was created for every 50 BTC mined block, thus the notion that the coins were mined to unique "throwaway addresses" is false.

Deadstock

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Quote from: ElectricMucus on March 24, 2015, 06:55:35 AM

Each wallet can have several receiving addresses. And I'm pretty sure you don't need a new private key for that.
I'm pretty sure I remember that this is even the default behavior from solo mining litecoins.

you are correct, even if u dont have a private key to the wallet you can input a sequence of seed words that can restore the entire wallet..at least in electrum this is how its done.

Mikestang

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Quote from: Rampton on March 25, 2015, 01:55:36 AM

Quote from: Mikestang on March 24, 2015, 03:50:53 PM

Quote from: Rampton on March 24, 2015, 01:44:24 PM

No I'm not. You two just don't know what you're talking about nor what effect dumping a shit tonne of coins on the exchanges has on the price. It's you who doesn't understand how simple supply and demand works because you wouldn't be saying this and it has absolutely nothing to do with the 'robustness' of the system. Bitcoin will continue working fine but the price you pay for them will be significantly less.

I didn't say it wouldn't have an effect, I said using words like "catastrophic" and "disastrous" are an exaggeration and FUD.

And your reasoning and logic behind this is what exactly? You just sound ignorant when you call an opinion you disagree with 'fud'. How would dumping half a billion dollars worth of bitcoins on the market (or how ever many satoshi has) not have an effect? Do you think the price of bitcoin will still the same? No.

Please re-read my statements. I never said it would "not have an effect". I am merely trying to calm your language down. If those coins move, it's not the end of the world. Have faith in the system's creator that he would know how to use his coins without crashing the whole thing.

networthsigns

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Quote from: samson on March 25, 2015, 03:33:38 PM

It's trivial to keep track of 20,000 keys, any idiot could do it.

Oh yeh the ease in which you can keep 20,000 keys safe is not even worth talking about we all should know how easy it is.

A few posts above says if them coins start moving we are pretty screwed and have to agree with him that it would not be to great lol

I think he might the master satoshi might no longer be with us as that is where all evidence aims Sad

Cassius

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Quote from: gentlemand on March 25, 2015, 03:53:31 PM

Quote from: SimplisticStu on March 25, 2015, 06:26:12 AM

Would it be far fetched to assume that he kept hold of them as some form of insurance for the whole bitcoin network?

I think that theory makes sense. Less the dumping, more the insurance against total domination of the currency.

Even if he does have them, I'm not sure he'd agree with the centralisation that would represent. It would be anathema to everything he was trying to achieve.

gentlemand

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Quote from: SimplisticStu on March 25, 2015, 06:26:12 AM

Would it be far fetched to assume that he kept hold of them as some form of insurance for the whole bitcoin network?

I think that theory makes sense. Less the dumping, more the insurance against total domination of the currency.

Mikestang

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Quote from: Enzyme on March 25, 2015, 06:28:00 AM

The only way he can offload those coins is if there is an exchange with an 'Input private key' feature. If those coins relocate, Bitcoin is screwed.

There are plenty of ways to introduce those coins into circulation without destroying bitcoin. People keep assuming that, if there were to be used, they would all be dumped at once and crash the market. Don't you think Satoshi is smart enough to know how to use the system he created without ruining it?

I don't know that they ever will move, but I hope they do. I know they will be used for something positive, and their use will be done in such a way as to be a benefit to bitcoin, not its downfall.

samson

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It's trivial to keep track of 20,000 keys, any idiot could do it.

dinofelis

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 24, 2015, 11:33:44 AM

It goes beyond just the early 'satoshi' blocks however. There are about 58,000 block rewards in the first era which have never been spent. I am just saying none of this supports a claim that he intentionally mined to unknown keys to ensure the coins were destroyed.

The point is that it would have been simple for Satoshi to make these coins provably un-spendable: send them to an OP_RETURN script, no ?

How much are 58000 keys ? Not even 2 MB of data ? Not so difficult to keep them I'd think.

I think a principal reason for Satoshi not to use those coins, is that the danger to give free his identity is too high. Apparently, Satoshi, whoever it/he/she/they are, doesn't want us to know. Any spending of those coins would be tracked down and would increase the probability for his identity to be revealed (whether it is the NSA, the KGB, some or other banking group, a group of political activists, or a lone guy or girl).

Enzyme

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The only way he can offload those coins is if there is an exchange with an 'Input private key' feature. If those coins relocate, Bitcoin is screwed.

SimplisticStu

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Would it be far fetched to assume that he kept hold of them as some form of insurance for the whole bitcoin network?

Let's say (the man) did muscle his way in due to the future popularity of our beloved bitcoin trying to take away from us, could Satoshi theoretically "cleanse" the whole system by using the dormant bitcoins in such a way as to set the price back to some years ago and render it useless for (the man) to keep his interest in it, leaving it once again to the people to re-build and for a new wave of early adopters?

Cassius

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No one but you has ever suggested that any of my writing is the desperate cry of a bagholder, so I'll take the advice with a pinch of salt. If you really think I believe Satoshi's stash hanging over the market like the sword of Damocles is the only factor keeping the price down, then there's not much I can say anyway.

For what it's worth, I put the article in the Spec subforum because I thought it would be of interest to a few people here. I maintain the conclusions are quite reasonable - and more likely than not - though I admit they do require a little imagination and empathy to reach. What I've learned from this unnecessary and unpleasant exchange is that it would have been better to put it in another section.

Mervyn_Pumpkinhead

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Quote from: Cassius on March 25, 2015, 03:03:20 AM

I hesitate to reply at all, but...
You assume the I'm a bagholder, with zero evidence. Assumption?
I've explained what's evidence and what's entirely reasonable guesswork. We work from fact to hypothesis all the time. It's a fairly standard process for most people.
This is an area of interest for me (and many others), not something that will inform my trading, because I don't.
And courtesy costs nothing.

Yes, I assume that you're a bagholder. There's no evidence that you're a bagholder, so I'm not writing an article full of demagogy, that claims about evidence of you being a bagholder.
So, this is my final advice. Next time, if you don't want for people to see your writing as the desperate cry of a bagholder, then don't bend the meaning of words this much, with the purpose to calm the minds of those, who might be worried about the fate of these coins.

Cassius

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Quote from: Mervyn_Pumpkinhead on March 25, 2015, 02:46:42 AM

Quote from: Cassius on March 25, 2015, 02:02:00 AM

You're a known troll, so I won't take it personally. In fact I'm surprised, I thought I had you on ignore. And no, I don't hold any bags.

I think that currently a sober-minded person should be worried if he isn't considered to be a troll in this place. Right now, anyone who don't want to be in this echo chamber, where "if we think positive thoughts, then good things will happen!" mentality rules over reason, then he will be considered a troll.
Just like people here are being called trolls or fudsters, just because they don't find any value in your article that is based on vague assumptions, but tries hard to look like it's based on evidence.

I hesitate to reply at all, but...
You assume the I'm a bagholder, with zero evidence. Assumption?
I've explained what's evidence and what's entirely reasonable guesswork. We work from fact to hypothesis all the time. It's a fairly standard process for most people.
This is an area of interest for me (and many others), not something that will inform my trading, because I don't.
And courtesy costs nothing.

Topic: Why Satoshi's coins will never hit the market (Read 5353 times)