Why Satoshi's coins will never hit the market - page 2.

Mervyn_Pumpkinhead

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Quote from: Cassius on March 25, 2015, 02:02:00 AM

You're a known troll, so I won't take it personally. In fact I'm surprised, I thought I had you on ignore. And no, I don't hold any bags.

I think that currently a sober-minded person should be worried if he isn't considered to be a troll in this place. Right now, anyone who don't want to be in this echo chamber, where "if we think positive thoughts, then good things will happen!" mentality rules over reason, then he will be considered a troll.
Just like people here are being called trolls or fudsters, just because they don't find any value in your article that is based on vague assumptions, but tries hard to look like it's based on evidence.

Cassius

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Quote from: Mervyn_Pumpkinhead on March 25, 2015, 01:25:54 AM

Pointless article, based on the hopes and guesses of an obvious bagholder.

Satoshis initial coin creation still leaves the question open if bitcoin is a pyramid scheme or a ponzi scheme. If Satoshi's coins would eventually be sold, then this pyramid scheme would surely turn into a ponzi.

You're a known troll, so I won't take it personally. In fact I'm surprised, I thought I had you on ignore. And no, I don't hold any bags.

Quote

What I don't like is how the original article claims to have found 'evidence' and then elaborates everything based on assumptions.

You're right that 'evidence' might be too strong a word, at least in a court of law

There is information in the blockchain that proves a limited number of scenarios, one of which is not that Satoshi actively manages/managed his many coins, which we know are held in many, many addresses. We know that he must have around 20,000 private keys. Moving into assumptions and conjecture (and I'm pretty sure this is the right place for that) and educated guesswork, it seems to me possible but unlikely that he kept every one of them. Feel free to disagree, of course, but that's the most likely in my opinion.

Rampton

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Quote from: Mikestang on March 24, 2015, 03:50:53 PM

Quote from: Rampton on March 24, 2015, 01:44:24 PM

No I'm not. You two just don't know what you're talking about nor what effect dumping a shit tonne of coins on the exchanges has on the price. It's you who doesn't understand how simple supply and demand works because you wouldn't be saying this and it has absolutely nothing to do with the 'robustness' of the system. Bitcoin will continue working fine but the price you pay for them will be significantly less.

I didn't say it wouldn't have an effect, I said using words like "catastrophic" and "disastrous" are an exaggeration and FUD.

And your reasoning and logic behind this is what exactly? You just sound ignorant when you call an opinion you disagree with 'fud'. How would dumping half a billion dollars worth of bitcoins on the market (or how ever many satoshi has) not have an effect? Do you think the price of bitcoin will still the same? No.

sgk

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!! HODL !!

Quote from: Mikestang on March 25, 2015, 01:13:48 AM

Quote from: sgk on March 25, 2015, 12:32:52 AM

In short:
There is no point discussing this at this point until further proof can be acquired.

Bitcoin Forum > Economy > Economics > Speculation >
Tongue

Haha.. true!

I think it makes sense that we're discussing this in speculation forum.
What I don't like is how the original article claims to have found 'evidence' and then elaborates everything based on assumptions.

Mervyn_Pumpkinhead

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Pointless article, based on the hopes and guesses of an obvious bagholder.

Satoshis initial coin creation still leaves the question open if bitcoin is a pyramid scheme or a ponzi scheme. If Satoshi's coins would eventually be sold, then this pyramid scheme would surely turn into a ponzi.

Mikestang

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Quote from: sgk on March 25, 2015, 12:32:52 AM

In short:
There is no point discussing this at this point until further proof can be acquired.

Bitcoin Forum > Economy > Economics > Speculation >
Tongue

sgk

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!! HODL !!

1. There is no evidence that Satoshi holds his private keys.
2. There is no evidence that Satoshi has lost his private keys.
3. There is no evidence if Satoshi is dead or alive.
4. There is no evidence that Satoshi has transferred / not transferred his private keys to someone else.

In short:
There is no point discussing this at this point until further proof can be acquired.

Cconvert2G36

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While we're in the realm of wild speculation based on no evidence... I operate under the assumption that satoshi still controls the keys to each and every one of his bitcoins. There is no evidence to the contrary.

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

This is not a concern

Suppose each wallet holds 100 addresses, he need to create 200 wallets to hold those coins, and he must constantly check if those 100 addresses in a wallet is used up, difficult to maintain on multiple computers (I suppose that he set up a group of computers to simulate the P2P network), highly unlikely for a coin that worth nothing at that time. (I don't even remember where is the wallet of my first alt-coin which holds at least 400+ of those alt-coins, since they worth nothing during that year)

Even if he stored all those wallets, that is 1/21 of the total bitcoin money supply, it is still much less than banks holding of fiat money: 4/5 of the whole USD supply stored at FED and the scale keeps increasing through each QE. So still much better than banks today

If bitcoin is very successful, he will be holding billions or even trillions of dollars, no need to cash out any significant amount, he will have a large reserve that can be used to stabilize bitcoin exchange rate

If bitcoin is not successful, he can't cash out that amount of coin without being caught, and that will crash the price to cents, it does not make a lot of sense either. In fact, if he really want to cash out those coins, he can do it slowly, to make sure the price keeps going up due to reward halving every 4 years

HarmonLi

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Honest 80s business!

Quote from: patt0 on March 24, 2015, 06:45:46 AM

Quote from: HarmonLi on March 24, 2015, 05:59:59 AM

Quote from: Enfield on March 24, 2015, 05:56:51 AM

Article looks like bullshit based off nothing but speculation to me. There's nothing that offers proof or backs up their claims at all. Nobody knows what happened to satoshi, his coins, or even if he is one or more people.

I think he should have made something obvious like an address that consists of a string or something. That way people could be pretty sure he doesn't have control about the coins anymore. If those coins move, I bet they move into a black-hole address.

Is there a way that he could have proved that the bitcoins were really lost? Even if the address he used to send them to was just some string, wouldn't someone eventually create that address and get the coins? xD
Or are you saying that it should be something pre-programmed to have an address that can't be accessed?

You could hard-code some 0-address into the Bitcoin protocol that renders coins unspendable for example. That way people could be sure that coins were destroyed. A pretty drastic measure, though...

Mikestang

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Quote from: Rampton on March 24, 2015, 01:44:24 PM

No I'm not. You two just don't know what you're talking about nor what effect dumping a shit tonne of coins on the exchanges has on the price. It's you who doesn't understand how simple supply and demand works because you wouldn't be saying this and it has absolutely nothing to do with the 'robustness' of the system. Bitcoin will continue working fine but the price you pay for them will be significantly less.

I didn't say it wouldn't have an effect, I said using words like "catastrophic" and "disastrous" are an exaggeration and FUD.

Rampton

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Quote from: futureofbitcoin on March 24, 2015, 12:35:06 PM

Quote from: Rampton on March 24, 2015, 12:30:42 PM

Quote from: Mikestang on March 24, 2015, 12:12:49 PM

Disastrous? How so? They were meant to be spent, spending them supports bitcoin. Satoshi didn't design this all and mean for people to not use millions of bitcoins.

Yes, but that's irrelevant. It would be catastrophic if someone dumped that amount of coins on an exchange. Look what happens when people dump relatively small amounts in comparison. The price falls drastically. Its basic supply and demand.

You clearly did not read the posts you're quoting.

How do you work that out? You're saying bitcoin were meant to be spent so it's ok and wouldn't be disastrous if all his coins were dumped but that is completely irrelevant to the point here so I don't think you are reading the posts you're quoting or if you are you're certainly not understanding them or articulating your point properly.

Quote from: Mikestang on March 24, 2015, 12:59:39 PM

You're overreacting again. "Catastrophic", really? I think you underestimate the robustness of the system and how supply and demand work. FUD

No I'm not. You two just don't know what you're talking about nor what effect dumping a shit tonne of coins on the exchanges has on the price. It's you who doesn't understand how simple supply and demand works because you wouldn't be saying this and it has absolutely nothing to do with the 'robustness' of the system. Bitcoin will continue working fine but the price you pay for them will be significantly less.

Mikestang

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Quote from: Rampton on March 24, 2015, 12:30:42 PM

Quote from: Mikestang on March 24, 2015, 12:12:49 PM

Quote from: Orwell on March 24, 2015, 12:05:14 PM

Quote from: futureofbitcoin on March 24, 2015, 11:41:25 AM

Quote from: bri912678 on March 24, 2015, 10:27:38 AM

Quote from: futureofbitcoin on March 24, 2015, 10:07:06 AM

I don't get that mentality. Why would the price crash because satoshi is using his bitcoins?

He was the first miner and it's estimated he must have mined between half a million to one and a half million bitcoins. If he chose to dump them he could clear out all the buy orders on every exchange in an instant. Look at the damage the bear whale did by dumping a tiny fraction of the coins Satoshi mined.

yeah, if he dumps ALL of his coins, that wouldn't be good.

But if he sells 10 bitcoins, it really shouldn't be any different than you selling 10 bitcoins or me selling 10 bitcoins.

If satoshi was going to spend any coins he would of by now. I think people would panic if he did spend even ten because spending the rest could be quite disastrous.

Disastrous? How so? They were meant to be spent, spending them supports bitcoin. Satoshi didn't design this all and mean for people to not use millions of bitcoins.

Yes, but that's irrelevant. It would be catastrophic if someone dumped that amount of coins on an exchange. Look what happens when people dump relatively small amounts in comparison. The price falls drastically. Its basic supply and demand.

You're overreacting again. "Catastrophic", really? I think you underestimate the robustness of the system and how supply and demand work. FUD

futureofbitcoin

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Quote from: Rampton on March 24, 2015, 12:30:42 PM

Quote from: Mikestang on March 24, 2015, 12:12:49 PM

Quote from: Orwell on March 24, 2015, 12:05:14 PM

Quote from: futureofbitcoin on March 24, 2015, 11:41:25 AM

Quote from: bri912678 on March 24, 2015, 10:27:38 AM

Quote from: futureofbitcoin on March 24, 2015, 10:07:06 AM

I don't get that mentality. Why would the price crash because satoshi is using his bitcoins?

He was the first miner and it's estimated he must have mined between half a million to one and a half million bitcoins. If he chose to dump them he could clear out all the buy orders on every exchange in an instant. Look at the damage the bear whale did by dumping a tiny fraction of the coins Satoshi mined.

yeah, if he dumps ALL of his coins, that wouldn't be good.

But if he sells 10 bitcoins, it really shouldn't be any different than you selling 10 bitcoins or me selling 10 bitcoins.

If satoshi was going to spend any coins he would of by now. I think people would panic if he did spend even ten because spending the rest could be quite disastrous.

Disastrous? How so? They were meant to be spent, spending them supports bitcoin. Satoshi didn't design this all and mean for people to not use millions of bitcoins.

Yes, but that's irrelevant. It would be catastrophic if someone dumped that amount of coins on an exchange. Look what happens when people dump relatively small amounts in comparison. The price falls drastically. Its basic supply and demand.

You clearly did not read the posts you're quoting.

pooya87

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i believe if satoshi wanted to spend his coins that was mined in early stages, he would have done it by now. someone like satoshi with that financial mind don't need these ways to earn money.

Rampton

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Quote from: Mikestang on March 24, 2015, 12:12:49 PM

Quote from: Orwell on March 24, 2015, 12:05:14 PM

Quote from: futureofbitcoin on March 24, 2015, 11:41:25 AM

Quote from: bri912678 on March 24, 2015, 10:27:38 AM

Quote from: futureofbitcoin on March 24, 2015, 10:07:06 AM

I don't get that mentality. Why would the price crash because satoshi is using his bitcoins?

He was the first miner and it's estimated he must have mined between half a million to one and a half million bitcoins. If he chose to dump them he could clear out all the buy orders on every exchange in an instant. Look at the damage the bear whale did by dumping a tiny fraction of the coins Satoshi mined.

yeah, if he dumps ALL of his coins, that wouldn't be good.

But if he sells 10 bitcoins, it really shouldn't be any different than you selling 10 bitcoins or me selling 10 bitcoins.

If satoshi was going to spend any coins he would of by now. I think people would panic if he did spend even ten because spending the rest could be quite disastrous.

Disastrous? How so? They were meant to be spent, spending them supports bitcoin. Satoshi didn't design this all and mean for people to not use millions of bitcoins.

Yes, but that's irrelevant. It would be catastrophic if someone dumped that amount of coins on an exchange. Look what happens when people dump relatively small amounts in comparison. The price falls drastically. Its basic supply and demand.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

Quote from: Mikestang on March 24, 2015, 12:12:49 PM

Disastrous? How so? They were meant to be spent, spending them supports bitcoin. Satoshi didn't design this all and mean for people to not use millions of bitcoins.

Keep an eye out for people squealing about bitcoin days destroyed. If a large amount of old coins move then lots of folks hop around in circles and jump up and down.

For better or worse, any Satoshi coins that moved would set people off. It would've been sensible to keep them moving and circulating if only to prevent them gaining mythical status.

futureofbitcoin

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Satoshi deserves to eat, buy a house, vacation, etc too. Why shouldn't he be able to spend his money?

If he spends his btc and a crash came, I'd be extremely happy because I can be an early adopter.

Mikestang

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Quote from: Orwell on March 24, 2015, 12:05:14 PM

Quote from: futureofbitcoin on March 24, 2015, 11:41:25 AM

Quote from: bri912678 on March 24, 2015, 10:27:38 AM

Quote from: futureofbitcoin on March 24, 2015, 10:07:06 AM

I don't get that mentality. Why would the price crash because satoshi is using his bitcoins?

He was the first miner and it's estimated he must have mined between half a million to one and a half million bitcoins. If he chose to dump them he could clear out all the buy orders on every exchange in an instant. Look at the damage the bear whale did by dumping a tiny fraction of the coins Satoshi mined.

yeah, if he dumps ALL of his coins, that wouldn't be good.

But if he sells 10 bitcoins, it really shouldn't be any different than you selling 10 bitcoins or me selling 10 bitcoins.

If satoshi was going to spend any coins he would of by now. I think people would panic if he did spend even ten because spending the rest could be quite disastrous.

Disastrous? How so? They were meant to be spent, spending them supports bitcoin. Satoshi didn't design this all and mean for people to not use millions of bitcoins.

Orwell

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Quote from: futureofbitcoin on March 24, 2015, 11:41:25 AM

Quote from: bri912678 on March 24, 2015, 10:27:38 AM

Quote from: futureofbitcoin on March 24, 2015, 10:07:06 AM

I don't get that mentality. Why would the price crash because satoshi is using his bitcoins?

He was the first miner and it's estimated he must have mined between half a million to one and a half million bitcoins. If he chose to dump them he could clear out all the buy orders on every exchange in an instant. Look at the damage the bear whale did by dumping a tiny fraction of the coins Satoshi mined.

yeah, if he dumps ALL of his coins, that wouldn't be good.

But if he sells 10 bitcoins, it really shouldn't be any different than you selling 10 bitcoins or me selling 10 bitcoins.

If satoshi was going to spend any coins he would of by now. I think people would panic if he did spend even ten because spending the rest could be quite disastrous.

Topic: Why Satoshi's coins will never hit the market - page 2. (Read 5353 times)