As it is, there are a lot of Ukrainian sympathizers who are fighting for Ukraine, in Ukraine's various militaries. So, it has become more and more of a war between several countries... being fought on Ukrainian land.
Topic: Why USA Should Supply more Offensive Weapons to Ukraine - page 2. (Read 464 times)
^^^ Probably they won't nuke each other. Nuking is for far-away fighting. They are right next door, and will continue to fight, man-to-man, until there aren't any Ukrainian fighters left.
As it is, there are a lot of Ukrainian sympathizers who are fighting for Ukraine, in Ukraine's various militaries. So, it has become more and more of a war between several countries... being fought on Ukrainian land.
As it is, there are a lot of Ukrainian sympathizers who are fighting for Ukraine, in Ukraine's various militaries. So, it has become more and more of a war between several countries... being fought on Ukrainian land.
Since they are getting more and more supplies in the past months, the war will never end soon and the result will be even worse in the upcoming days. Obviously what the west is doing is plain like colorless water, they wanted to weaken the Russian force with this war and when Russia is weakened, they will further stretch and continue to further support Ukraine and in the last part of this decisive war, they will gonna join and obviously claim the victory. What really concerns me is when they started to nuke each other, though we are miles and miles away from them, we will be affected and mostly our economy will fall.
The best training - is on the battlefield. USA and other countries before supplying weapons to Ukraine, teach out soldiers at first. And after that our army practicing against orcs hordes
So yeah, the best way to teach ukrainian military is to provide more heavy weaponry to it.
It's so sad that all these nice, young, Ukrainian soldiers have to die in training, but what else could anyone expect? Wishes and hopes don't make what is happening. And what is happening is that the part of the Ukraine that has become corrupt is failing. But the whole war is a cover for other things that are going on.
Your argument is that Ukraine young soldiers are going to die if they get the supply of modern offensive weapons but will live and be very ok if no weapon is provided to them? I guess you're a terrible Russian propagandist who's so bad at his job that he needs to be fired twice for doing a bad job.
I certainly don't know what is going to happen in the future... just like everybody else. But as of right now, the Ukraine is losing 200-300 soldiers to death, daily. Even Zelensky admits 60 to 100.
This has nothing to do with how many Russian soldiers die each day. But it seems that at this time in the war, Russians are dying less frequently.
Supplying more weapons to the Ukraine will only push Russia into using heavier artillery, even if the weapons get to the Ukraine in a short time. This means a larger death toll for all of Ukraine, and its break-up much sooner than if it surrendered.
Look here to see one of the major reasons for the war - https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/327006-2022-06-12-breaking-the-pentagon-admits-to-46-biolabs-in-ukraine.htm. It shows why the US is pushing for an Ukraine victory as hard as it has been.
The best training - is on the battlefield. USA and other countries before supplying weapons to Ukraine, teach out soldiers at first. And after that our army practicing against orcs hordes
So yeah, the best way to teach ukrainian military is to provide more heavy weaponry to it.
It's so sad that all these nice, young, Ukrainian soldiers have to die in training, but what else could anyone expect? Wishes and hopes don't make what is happening. And what is happening is that the part of the Ukraine that has become corrupt is failing. But the whole war is a cover for other things that are going on.
Your argument is that Ukraine young soldiers are going to die if they get the supply of modern offensive weapons but will live and be very ok if no weapon is provided to them? I guess you're a terrible Russian propagandist who's so bad at his job that he needs to be fired twice for doing a bad job.
Congress isn't so dumb that they don't know the below stuff. Rather, they need something like this for one very important reason. The whole fiat USD money and banking system is a Ponzi. While it looks like give-away money to us, there is a really intricate mess of borrowing and loaning money going on here. It keeps the Federal Reserve Bank alive. I mean, we wouldn't want all those oil dollars to suddenly become worthless, now would we.
ENDLESS LIES: Top Ukrainian official admits to lying about Russians raping Ukrainians in effort to obtain more weapons from West
ENDLESS LIES: Top Ukrainian official admits to lying about Russians raping Ukrainians in effort to obtain more weapons from West
After being removed from her position for lying about Russian soldiers raping Ukrainians, former Ukrainian Parliamentary Commissioner for Human Rights Lyudmila Denisova finally fessed up to making up the fairy tale in an attempt to score more weapons from the West.
In a vote of no confidence that was passed in a 234 to 9 vote, Denisova was pulled from the position and shamed for spreading misinformation that “only harmed Ukraine,” according to parliament member Pavlo Frolov. Denisova presented “numerous details of ‘unnatural sexual offenses’ and child sexual abuses in the occupied territories [that] were unsupported by evidence,” he added.
In a later interview with a Ukrainian news outlet, Denisova admitted that she manufactured lies on purpose and that they were successful in convincing Italy, which is the example she used, to procure Ukraine more weapons to fight against Russia.
“When, for example, I spoke in the Italian parliament at the Committee on International Affairs, I heard and saw such fatigue from Ukraine, you know? I talked about terrible things in order to somehow push them to make the decisions that Ukraine and the Ukrainian people need,” Denisova explained.
Italy’s Five Star Movement, she went on to reveal, was originally “against the provision of weapons to us, but after my speech, one of the party leaders … said that they will support [Ukraine], including by the provision of weapons.”
CNN and the Washington Post both spread Denisova’s lies (among many others)
Even though it was easily verifiable that Denisova was pulling these rape stories out of her behind, fake news giants such as CNN and the Washington Post ran them, repeating them ad nauseum to their scant viewers.
“The media was quick to put this woman’s BS claims out, but couldn’t care less about correcting the record,” wrote Chris Menahan from Information Liberation about the travesty that is Western “news.”
...
In a vote of no confidence that was passed in a 234 to 9 vote, Denisova was pulled from the position and shamed for spreading misinformation that “only harmed Ukraine,” according to parliament member Pavlo Frolov. Denisova presented “numerous details of ‘unnatural sexual offenses’ and child sexual abuses in the occupied territories [that] were unsupported by evidence,” he added.
In a later interview with a Ukrainian news outlet, Denisova admitted that she manufactured lies on purpose and that they were successful in convincing Italy, which is the example she used, to procure Ukraine more weapons to fight against Russia.
“When, for example, I spoke in the Italian parliament at the Committee on International Affairs, I heard and saw such fatigue from Ukraine, you know? I talked about terrible things in order to somehow push them to make the decisions that Ukraine and the Ukrainian people need,” Denisova explained.
Italy’s Five Star Movement, she went on to reveal, was originally “against the provision of weapons to us, but after my speech, one of the party leaders … said that they will support [Ukraine], including by the provision of weapons.”
CNN and the Washington Post both spread Denisova’s lies (among many others)
Even though it was easily verifiable that Denisova was pulling these rape stories out of her behind, fake news giants such as CNN and the Washington Post ran them, repeating them ad nauseum to their scant viewers.
“The media was quick to put this woman’s BS claims out, but couldn’t care less about correcting the record,” wrote Chris Menahan from Information Liberation about the travesty that is Western “news.”
...
...or... hear me out... The USA could choose to mind their own business and worry about supplying more offensive weapons to their own citizenry so that we never have to worry about anyone trying to infringe on our basic human rights like the people from Ukraine are now feeling. That would be crazy right? Imagine a government supplying their own citizens with weapons... Better to use Ukraine as a proxy and let those people suffer, right?
It doesn't matter which side of the fence you're on. War by big governments is wrong and we all lose, because it only leads to more government control. Politicians are caught in a feedback loop with the military industrial complex to line their pockets and just for fun politicians have decided that letting big pharma onto their teats would really make them rich. Next up will be food (it's already started, our supply chain is currently under attack), then housing (inflation/deflation anyone?). I only hope that Bitcoin proves to be the lifeline it is claimed to be. I have my doubts, but it seems we'll have our answer in the next 1-3 years.
It doesn't matter which side of the fence you're on. War by big governments is wrong and we all lose, because it only leads to more government control. Politicians are caught in a feedback loop with the military industrial complex to line their pockets and just for fun politicians have decided that letting big pharma onto their teats would really make them rich. Next up will be food (it's already started, our supply chain is currently under attack), then housing (inflation/deflation anyone?). I only hope that Bitcoin proves to be the lifeline it is claimed to be. I have my doubts, but it seems we'll have our answer in the next 1-3 years.
U.S. is already too committed. This would have been the best strategy in March when the invasion began, but they slowly began the "harsh" rhetoric campaign against Putin that was not supported by actual arms. Then the arms came, and the U.S. entered a proxy war with Russia. Even the conservatives in the U.S. house/senate were split on sending 40 billion worth of aid to Ukraine. The isolationists against the warmongers. How much of that 40 billion will end up in the briefcase of a corrupt Ukrainian official? Something like 16 billion of those funds were sent for economic relief, not military aid. Would be great to know exactly how those funds were being spent.
I think more American assets in Ukraine is a bad idea
You're wrong
Do you really think that having more weapons would help Ukraine end this war faster?
Yep. As a man from here i can definitely tell "yes".
Even Biden came out publicly and said that we can't stop Russia from doing whatever they want with Ukraine.
About Biden i have some bad assumptions, but we will see is this true in near future.
Neither of those things are in the best interests of the Ukrainian people.
So, you're trying to tell me that in ukrainian interest is to surrender and be tortured, raped and killed. Good try but no.
I don't believe in this proxy war bullshit because the wrong people end up being victims, in this case Ukrainians.
The main problem, and the biggest one, is that without weapons or not, ukrainians still victim. And the worst situation is in occupied area. Firstly, russians kills all those who are not loyal or have pro-ukrainian view (i know cases from my the circle of people i know). Secondly, because russian are very bad at planning and infrastructure, they create humanitarian problems on occupied territories. I know relatives in Berdyansk, and they tell that situation in the city are very bad: lack of food, water and medicine. Russians not allow to import this things from ukrainian territory, but for some reasons don't fulfil this goods from their territory.
So, your main idea is to left ukrainians without weapons to create more Berdyansks. Brilliant plan.
Better to use Ukraine as a proxy and let those people suffer, right?
You should came here, to Ukraine, and watch it by yourself. Maybe in that case you'll stop all your shitty takes about "proxy", "global games" etc. We have aggressor and victim.
When your ass in comfort and without a chance to be hit by a missile it's good condition for such sophisticated talks.
No thanks. I think more American assets in Ukraine is a bad idea, but I appreciate the invite.
I'm not saying that Ukraine isn't the victim or that Russia isn't the aggressor. I'm saying that sending Ukraine more weapons so they can live in this uncomfortable position for longer just to hurt Russia's finances as a way for the USA to hurt Russia's future is not fair to Ukrainians.
Do you really think that having more weapons would help Ukraine end this war faster? Even Biden came out publicly and said that we can't stop Russia from doing whatever they want with Ukraine. All we can do is make it take longer and be more expensive. Neither of those things are in the best interests of the Ukrainian people.
If you want my no holds barred take on the situation, USA should tell Russia we're either going to stay the hell out of your affairs, or we're going to launch a full scale war against you if you attack our allies. I don't believe in this proxy war bullshit because the wrong people end up being victims, in this case Ukrainians.
But without proper training (and not a daily course) Ukraine army with high-tech weapons will be mishitting everything as stormtroopers 
The best training - is on the battlefield. USA and other countries before supplying weapons to Ukraine, teach out soldiers at first. And after that our army practicing against orcs hordes
So yeah, the best way to teach ukrainian military is to provide more heavy weaponry to it.
It's so sad that all these nice, young, Ukrainian soldiers have to die in training, but what else could anyone expect? Wishes and hopes don't make what is happening. And what is happening is that the part of the Ukraine that has become corrupt is failing. But the whole war is a cover for other things that are going on.
Ukraine President's Inner Circle Buying Multi-Million $ Mansions in Switzerland!
Oh, and how are they affording $9 million for those houses? Is U.S. "foreign aid" being stolen so they can buy multi-million dollar mansions?
Like most countries, Switzerland has land registry records showing who owns a particular property, how much it sold for, and what taxes are paid on it. Extracts from those land registries can be accessed by the general public.
Among the owners of luxury real estate in the country of banks and alpine meadows, are high-ranking officials from Zelensky's entourage.
We begin with Dmitry Razumkov, a Ukrainian politician and former Chairman of the Verkhovna (Legislature).
According to land registry extract Mr. Razumkov seems to have bought himself a luxurious home for 8,954,621.00 Swiss Francs, which are about equal to the value of a U.S. Dollar. His name is at the bottom of the property sale record:
...
Like most countries, Switzerland has land registry records showing who owns a particular property, how much it sold for, and what taxes are paid on it. Extracts from those land registries can be accessed by the general public.
Among the owners of luxury real estate in the country of banks and alpine meadows, are high-ranking officials from Zelensky's entourage.
We begin with Dmitry Razumkov, a Ukrainian politician and former Chairman of the Verkhovna (Legislature).
According to land registry extract Mr. Razumkov seems to have bought himself a luxurious home for 8,954,621.00 Swiss Francs, which are about equal to the value of a U.S. Dollar. His name is at the bottom of the property sale record:
...
But without proper training (and not a daily course) Ukraine army with high-tech weapons will be mishitting everything as stormtroopers
The best training - is on the battlefield. USA and other countries before supplying weapons to Ukraine, teach out soldiers at first. And after that our army practicing against orcs hordes
So yeah, the best way to teach ukrainian military is to provide more heavy weaponry to it.
Now, imagine them being equipped with advanced high-tech offensive made in the USA weapons?
Easy. But without proper training (and not a daily course) Ukraine army with high-tech weapons will be mishitting everything as stormtroopers
No matter what Russia did, you cannot support to it with words. Ukraine calls it an invasion, and they are right to call it so. Though they have right to defend them, how long will their minnow army be able to compete against Russian big military forces?
However, the USA's resources in Ukraine are based on more diplomatic reasons than human factors.
As Russian forces close in on capturing a key city, the U.S. is providing Ukraine with weapons it has long sought to shoot down aircraft and knock out artillery.
What if it isn't the U.S.? There must be someone who supports the Ukrainian people.
What is happening? Kiev is slowly fading away, but nobody is helping them. Russian will not succeed if they assist them earlier. They need more resources than mere promises.
However, the USA's resources in Ukraine are based on more diplomatic reasons than human factors.
As Russian forces close in on capturing a key city, the U.S. is providing Ukraine with weapons it has long sought to shoot down aircraft and knock out artillery.
What if it isn't the U.S.? There must be someone who supports the Ukrainian people.
What is happening? Kiev is slowly fading away, but nobody is helping them. Russian will not succeed if they assist them earlier. They need more resources than mere promises.
Why USA Should Supply more Offensive Weapons to Ukraine
Russia needs to build its arsenal. Now they can do this easily... by taking the US weapons away from the Ukrainians as the Ukrainian soldiers surrender.
Russia needs to build its arsenal. Now they can do this easily... by taking the US weapons away from the Ukrainians as the Ukrainian soldiers surrender.
For one thing. Ukraine is fighting with great wills, and have the guts to challenge the Russia army with average Weaponry. They have killed tens of generals, taken countless of tanks and destroyed many. Repelled the invaders from towns after towns. They did all these with near mediocre weapons. Now, imagine them being equipped with advanced high-tech offensive made in the USA weapons? Dispossessing them off the sophisticated weapons will be nothing short of suicide missions.
Why USA Should Supply more Offensive Weapons to Ukraine
Russia needs to build its arsenal. Now they can do this easily... by taking the US weapons away from the Ukrainians as the Ukrainian soldiers surrender.
Russia needs to build its arsenal. Now they can do this easily... by taking the US weapons away from the Ukrainians as the Ukrainian soldiers surrender.
Better to use Ukraine as a proxy and let those people suffer, right?
You should came here, to Ukraine, and watch it by yourself. Maybe in that case you'll stop all your shitty takes about "proxy", "global games" etc. We have aggressor and victim.
When your ass in comfort and without a chance to be hit by a missile it's good condition for such sophisticated talks.
Lol, what I've found:
I've heard anyone say Putin didn't have the guts to invade... He's sort of known for being a man's man who is fearless.
yep, because of that he's sitting on a long long table
and also look at that:
At zhirinovsky's (russian far right) politican funeral when putin came to coffin, honor guard dissapeared. Many westerners asks "Why?". The answer is easy: putin is afraid to be killed by some sneaky assasin.
...or... hear me out... The USA could choose to mind their own business and worry about supplying more offensive weapons to their own citizenry so that we never have to worry about anyone trying to infringe on our basic human rights like the people from Ukraine are now feeling. That would be crazy right? Imagine a government supplying their own citizens with weapons... Better to use Ukraine as a proxy and let those people suffer, right?
It doesn't matter which side of the fence you're on. War by big governments is wrong and we all lose, because it only leads to more government control. Politicians are caught in a feedback loop with the military industrial complex to line their pockets and just for fun politicians have decided that letting big pharma onto their teats would really make them rich. Next up will be food (it's already started, our supply chain is currently under attack), then housing (inflation/deflation anyone?). I only hope that Bitcoin proves to be the lifeline it is claimed to be. I have my doubts, but it seems we'll have our answer in the next 1-3 years.
It doesn't matter which side of the fence you're on. War by big governments is wrong and we all lose, because it only leads to more government control. Politicians are caught in a feedback loop with the military industrial complex to line their pockets and just for fun politicians have decided that letting big pharma onto their teats would really make them rich. Next up will be food (it's already started, our supply chain is currently under attack), then housing (inflation/deflation anyone?). I only hope that Bitcoin proves to be the lifeline it is claimed to be. I have my doubts, but it seems we'll have our answer in the next 1-3 years.
Right!
The USA is a free country... free for the good people and free for the bad people, free for the powerful and free for the weak. And let's keep her that way.
...or... hear me out... The USA could choose to mind their own business and worry about supplying more offensive weapons to their own citizenry so that we never have to worry about anyone trying to infringe on our basic human rights like the people from Ukraine are now feeling. That would be crazy right? Imagine a government supplying their own citizens with weapons... Better to use Ukraine as a proxy and let those people suffer, right?
It doesn't matter which side of the fence you're on. War by big governments is wrong and we all lose, because it only leads to more government control. Politicians are caught in a feedback loop with the military industrial complex to line their pockets and just for fun politicians have decided that letting big pharma onto their teats would really make them rich. Next up will be food (it's already started, our supply chain is currently under attack), then housing (inflation/deflation anyone?). I only hope that Bitcoin proves to be the lifeline it is claimed to be. I have my doubts, but it seems we'll have our answer in the next 1-3 years.
It doesn't matter which side of the fence you're on. War by big governments is wrong and we all lose, because it only leads to more government control. Politicians are caught in a feedback loop with the military industrial complex to line their pockets and just for fun politicians have decided that letting big pharma onto their teats would really make them rich. Next up will be food (it's already started, our supply chain is currently under attack), then housing (inflation/deflation anyone?). I only hope that Bitcoin proves to be the lifeline it is claimed to be. I have my doubts, but it seems we'll have our answer in the next 1-3 years.
Ukraine should not only defend. They should be able to attack and hit Russian territories. That's the only way to balance the equation and possibly tilt the war in favor of Ukraine.
What about calls to stop this war? You suggest to stop violence with violence. If Ukraine starts to attack Russian territory, propaganda will 100% point on this and say that Russia has attack Ukraine to stop this and they acted ahead of. Russians, that are against war will support Putin even more. Because "we are being attacked and this must be stopped".
Answering on aggression with aggression is totally wrong. It will only give birth to more aggression.
The ONLY way to stop this aggression is to kill ALL aggressors as it is clear by now they will not stop.
There is no other way.
Ukrainians are not aggressors, they are defenders. We have a moral duty to help them in any way we can.
Defending against aggression is not aggression.
Russians waged wars of aggression for hundreds of years. Even during WWII.
They are the country of aggressors. Even today, the majority of Russians (even those who are not ethnic Russki) support aggression
against others.
The analogy may not be perfect but let's assume there's no police to be called. All you have is your ability to defend yourself or attack back. Bear in mind the attack will continue days after days with no police to be called. What would you do?
I would stay home and protect my family at all cost. But I would not go out to enemy house to make a diversion or try to attack him there.
I know the life is not a movie, but have you seen movie Felon? Our discussed situation. A robber sneaked into a house and tried to ran away later. Main character chased him, tried to stop him outside his house, accidentally hit him with a bat to the head and killed him. Got into the jail. The society though he is more dangerous than a robber, because his actions continued aggression. In your case, if he USA supply Ukraine with weapons to attack Russia, what makes Ukraine different from Russia? They are attackers now. Isnt it? Should the world put sanctions against them also? Ban them from getting into EU or NATO? Who needs a neighbour that can turn from victim to an attacker in one second?
Why USA Should Supply more Offensive Weapons to Ukraine
There is one major reason why. Provides more jobs for American war machine manufacturers. Bring the US economy back up, even if it is through manufacturing war machines. I should get a job in that industry. I don't know what those guys get paid, but it should be at least $100 per hour.
Btw, with inflation going like it is and is going to be, soon fast food workers will be getting $100 per hour.
There is one major reason why. Provides more jobs for American war machine manufacturers. Bring the US economy back up, even if it is through manufacturing war machines. I should get a job in that industry. I don't know what those guys get paid, but it should be at least $100 per hour.
Btw, with inflation going like it is and is going to be, soon fast food workers will be getting $100 per hour.
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