Topic: Why was this deleted? (Read 4276 times)

Grue claims that he has issued a warning, as he has done in my case. While I have heeded the warning, my sister thread has chosen to blatantly disregard it. This leaves me with two possible interpretations:
1. The user should be banned for ignoring the warning.
2. No such warning was issued.
Is there a third?
The 'and also do whatever the fuck I feel like because it is for the greater good' clause. Once introduced, all further discussion is irrelevant.
Again, you're straying off topic. We aren't discussing the merits of a particular thread, but a user who has [allegedly] been told to stop, and continues to ignore the warning.

@rebuilder: Please stay on topic. If you wish to make an accusation against me, feel free to do so. But not in this thread.
>smell the stink anyway
And lighten up on the insults, faggot.

Not really. AFAIK bans are meant to apply to people, not their accounts. Perhaps the mods aren't quite sure you're NotLambChop but smell the stink anyway. (you know, specific writing style, modified propaganda posters, often Chinese, a rather obsessive nature, highly annoying and utterly biased...) Perhaps you're just not being afforded the same leeway as normal users would, since it's highly likely you're an alt of a banned user and shouldn't be allowed to post anything at all any more.

Just like a few others in Speculation... I guess the mods are trying a nuisance mitigation tactic of some sort.

People writing comments like "OMG, ur awesom! <3!' would not be conversation, it would be useless garbage. Posts that would indicative of interesting content in a thread would be posts that actually discuss the content of the articles you are posting.

If you have a better way to reliably measure how interesting a thread is then feel free to propose one.  
The posts themselves may be of somewhat low quality, however if the threads they are posted in generate constructive discussion based on those low quality posts then maybe the posts are not as close to "spam" as you claim.

Bear in mind (no pun intended) that this is a discussion forum, not a news forum, so topics posted should be discussed.
Global moderators only have the ability to permanently ban someone, and if they want someone to be banned on a temporary basis then they must post in the staff section of the forum requesting a ban. I don't think anyone is going to be permanently banned for bumping multiple times as both of you have been doing without first receiving at least 3 temp bans, although I may be wrong about this.

This means that Grue is most likely not going to be able to ban the OP of your sister's thread. Also when a moderator is working a report, they have three choices, to mark it as "good" (this means they took some kind of action -- for example they deleted a post), mark it as "bad" (this means they took no action as a result of your repot, and to "ignore" the report (this means they took no action on the report, but the report will still show up in other moderator's queues for them to handle if desired). If Grue does not feel strongly enough to take action on your reports then he may simply ignore the report. Moderators are volunteers, not employees and they are not specifically required to take any action they do not wish to take.

You also need to take into consideration that moderation is designed to benefit the community as a whole. As I mentioned before, if a potentially interesting thread (as evidenced as one that is frequently replied to) is removed from the first page of a section because a potentially uninteresting thread (based on the lack of replies to such thread) then it is probably fair to say the community would be harmed by the lack of moderation of multiple updates, while the lack of moderation of an interesting thread would not do the same damage.

Additionally, having multiple unreplied-to  posts in a single thread is a sign that the posts you are making may be of low quality and low quality posts are generally removed.

Or it might be a sign that news reportage is not a dialectic/an interactive activity. I read The New York Times, and, at times, find it interesting. Not once have I felt the need to reply.  I also read books. Without ever writing "OMG, ur awesom! <3!' to the authors.


We're talking about dozens of consecutive posts, containing nothing but screen captures and links, the very definition of 'spam.' As opposed to my 2 to 4 posts per day of original content.

But most of all, we're talking about fair, evenhanded moderation, impartiality, and keeping one's word.

I think TheBear did a pretty good job in explaining why you are unable to post consecutively as you have been while the other thread can.

If no one is replying to your thread and you are continuously posting additional content then another, possibly interesting thread is going to get removed from the 1st page. The fact that there is not a lot of conversation in your thread might be a sign that others do not find your thread interesting. On the other hand if there is some amount of conversation going on in a particular thread then adding additional content via a new post is not going to cause that same damage because there is evidence that others find it interesting based on the amount of conversation in that thread.

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I think it would probably be a good idea to refine the 1 bump per 24 hour rule a little bit for threads outside of the marketplace sections, and even possibly for threads in the marketplace sections (IMO there should be two separate rules -- but both should be changed somewhat).

I also think the fact that it took so long to get a solid answer as to if threads can be bumped multiple times per day outside of the marketplace sections with solid evidence is a pretty good reason to have the rules be more centralized and not have moderators have to rely on rules that are scattered throughout the forum, and that were made over several years.

Aren't you a bit off topic?
This thread is about fair and evenhanded moderation, also about keeping one's word, so that shit like NotLambchop/BtcCoScammedMex_xxxxx/MrFudged wouldn't happen.

Aren't  you just another NotLambChop alt? You certainly have the smell on you, maybe that's why mods treat you differently.

Bump. Why wasn't this user banned yet?

Bump?

Posting brings your thread back to the top. If nobody else is posting in the thread, this may show the topic is either uninteresting or doesn't merit much discussion. Bumping the thread isn't just bumping the thread, it's also removing another topic from the front page, which may be more interesting or worthy of discussion.

This means that bumping a thread isn't just a marketplace guideline (relevant, note it's located in Bitcoin Discussion, in a thread about general moderation), though it's typically enforced more heavily in the marketplace for obvious reasons.

Whether this should be applied in the discussion portion of the forums is largely a judgement call on that particular situation, and the posts in question.

I find it difficult to understand how a forum with millions in its coffers is having such staffing difficulties
Internet fora are essentially temporal. A post's relevance dwindles in time, making irrelevant any moderation happening days after the fact. Yesterday's posts, like yesterday's papers, are seldom read.
TL;DR: Don't worry about it, no one will care about or notice posts on the back pages of a thread.

There is no selective enforcement of rules. I'm waiting for admins to completely clarify this before I handle. Nobody (that I've talked to) is 100% sure at the moment. This is why I said that your thread will remain untouched (for now). Just be patient please.
It is difficult to talk to them as they're very busy most of the time.

^^
>I reported some of them myself. They appear to be unhandled or have been ignored.

I have reported those posts. I have also reported them in this sub.
You have reported those posts.
I have reported the user, who, uncontent with shitting up his own [self-moderated] thread, also shits in mine.
It's been nearly two days, and nothing was done.
If consecutive posting is against forum policy, and the reason for my post being deleted, how would you explain this?

Tangent: In light of this, do you honestly blame me for [mistakenly] assuming selective enforcement after having [one of the TWO consecutive] posts deleted?

I dont think so.




I know, I reported some of them myself. They appear to be unhandled or have been ignored. I would prefer that they are removed or merged as well. Its just a big row of pictures, I dont see any issue with them beeing a single post.


Impressive, plonk.

Why belabor this? You're clearly in the wrong.
The posts below, all made by one user, most within ~2 to 4 minutes of each other, were reported to teh mods.
My reports were addressed, and found to be in error; the posts remain unmolested; it's clearly OK to post 17 posts in a row.
QED

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Edit: text effects. How'm I doin'?

Possible. I understood your point as: the rules there can only be reasonbly assumed to apply in the marketplace section, hence my argument that they can also be applied elsewhere should be considered unreasonable.


To make it clear:


Is perfectly fine IMHO.


On the other hand:

should have been an edit, even though it provides new information, evne though the post is constructive to the thread and there is no financial incentive (besides maybe OP is selling their signature, but lets just ignore that for the sake of keeping the argument as simple as possible).


I disagree esp. if we consider the spirit of the rule.


I know, I disagree for the given reasons. The problem it was meant to face in my opinion is also present in other sections. I would even say that excessive bumping is not actually a rule that is needed, but would fall under spam, even if the bump is actually an update and contains new information. I can also understand the OP feels it more visually appealing to post each article in a new post, but thats a different problem.


Yes, its especially important that marketplace threads are not overly bumped, but that does not reduce the importance in other sections.


I would not laugh at you. I just smiled more instead of less Might be because I never read the alt text for it and just went with the visual impression of the ASCII version. Just assume it posted this instead ->

I'm a patroller. This means that I can not moderate users that have a rank higher than newbie (except in my local section). This is why I said that it is not within my 'jurisdiction'.

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This is exactly what I've been trying to say. Different mods handle a lot of stuff differently around here (users are usually not aware of this).

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@Quickseller: theymos clarified on IRC that it is not just the marketplace. As previously said I will not quote unless given permission to.

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Who is a "she"? I'm a 'he'.  

I am not sure I am understanding what you are saying here. This might be a translation issue.
If a newbie is making a "bump" post every 30 minutes then they would be making a useless/low value post repetitively which is not allowed. On the other hand, if a newbie were to post an update with relevant, new information then such update would be useful to someone who is helping them with such problems, even if updates are given every 30 minutes.....for example, I could read a thread asking for help with a newbie saying they are receiving a specific error message, I leave such thread open in a new tab, then spend some time conducting business, then 45 minutes later can start research on the above error message....then I can check my watch list to see if there are any updates to that thread (I am not going to refresh that thread and review an entire 10 page thread prior to starting my research), and if the newbie has an update saying that they were able to clear the original error message, but are not receiving a 2nd error message, then I would probably want to attempt to research how to resolve the 2nd error message, and no longer care about the 1st one. If a 30 minute update is provided then I will know which error message to research, and if a 30 minute update is not used then I will spend time researching an incorrect error message, and would most likely give up on trying to help the newbie because I had just wasted time in finding an answer for them that they already had.
I don't think this is a slightly different interpretation of the same rule, I think the difference is substantial and clear. I don't think the difference in interpretation is because of a small nuance, I think it is a broad based difference in how a particular rule is interpreted.

I think it is pretty rare for a thread to get moved more then one time, and in the instances when this does happen, I report the thread an additional time and it gets moved appropriately, which leads me to believe that it was probably the OP of the thread to moved it back and not a moderator. 
My argument is that it is only a marketplace rule and that the rule does not apply in places outside of marketplace.

I don't think the spirit of the rule applies to other sections (see below). I think something that would be against the spirit of the bumping rule would be to have your alts ask questions in your own sales thread, or make otherwise useless posts in your sales threads, as these posts would effectively be a bump, however would technically not be classified as being an update nor a bump.

I would say that a "bump" post outside of the marketplace (that is not an update, as in it does not contain any additional information) should probably be deleted as it would be a "low value" post. I would also say that it is pretty rare that a thread gets addressed/replied to by a moderator after being "bumped" (as in "bump" and not a post that includes additional information) in meta.
In marketplace threads, you can adjust the price of what you are trading by fractions of a penny, or artificially adjusting the available inventory (or amounts you are willing to buy) and you could call it an "update" which would allow you to bump your thread to the top of a section, giving you a financial advance over others. In a non-marketplace thread, you are not able to manipulate an update anywhere near as easily, and there is not the financial advantage.   

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I think you are making an incorrect use of that smiley. I usually use that smiley when I am laughing at someone.

I dont think my argument that it might be different than what you think is unreasonable.


IMHO not allowing a bump every 30 minutes is also common sense. What do you think would happen if people in Beginners and Help started to bump (be that with "updates" or not) threads every few minutes?


Yet there is a rule that allows mods to interpret a rule slightly different than other mods. Some threads I report get moved to the section I report them to, once in there they get moved to a different section because the mod handling the first section has a different opinion about it than the mod that moved the thread in said section in the first place. This is not uncommon and its normal that rules are understood slightly differently.


Yet the spirit of the rule applies in all sections not only in the marketplace section, hence my argument. AFAIK the above quotes are the reason the "nothing is set in stone" rule was added.

How is it incorrect to apply a given rule across the board when the problem said rule was meant to face occures across the board? Heavily bumping a thread - as the OP does, same as the other person btw - is a problem in every section. It is an incentive to make several posts in order to have your thread on the first page. It simulates activity (number of posts/pages/recent updates) in order to lure people into a thread pushing other threads down.

Now to make sure this is understood correctly. I dont think I know more about the rules here than you or anyone else. It is just that I agree with Lauda's way to handle this and share my views on things. I would be perfectly fine to limit the rule to the marketplace section, but I assure you it would lead to the above problems and I dont think it is in the spirit of the board to encourage this behaviour.

PS: thanks for researching the quotes btw