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Topic: Why was this deleted? - page 2. (Read 4216 times)

copper member
Activity: 2870
Merit: 2298
October 10, 2015, 03:30:14 AM
#51
The bump rule is in a thread entitled "Marketplace rules and guidelines" and the content of this thread is nothing more then a list of rules that reasonably would only apply to only marketplace threads.

The no begging rule is in a Beginners and Help thread that is entitled "NEWBIE README" however there is a header above the "no begging" rule entitled "forum rules" which implies such rules apply to the entire forum. Additionally, this post by theymos says that he "tends to agree" with the forum having a "no begging" policy, and here TheBear says that he will only bite the hands off threads that (among other things) are garbage like begging. Just because the "Unofficial list of official rules contains a weak or an incorrect reference supporting a rule does not mean that rule is invalid.

The "no begging" rule is also somewhat of a "common sense" rule, while all of the marketplace specific rules are not.

I would say most importantly, it appears that one moderator (who happens to be new and less experienced) is interpreting a rule in a different way then how other moderators are interpreting the same rule. A report should be handled the same way regardless of which moderator handles such reports (assuming they do not ignore the report), as it would not be fair to the person making such post if their post was deleted for no reason other then the fact that Cyrus handled a particular report while another person whose circumstances are identical does not have their post deleted for no reason other then the fact that grue handled the report.

I am not the person who argued that the post in the OP was deleted for arbitrary reasons, and I do not think that, I think that it was deleted because a moderator interpreted a rule incorrectly. With that being said, I do not believe that moderators should cite the rule that moderators can use their own interpretation of a rule when backing up a decision. After a (very quick) search for this rule, I was not able to find where a moderator actually stated that this is a rule, however I was able to find this quote by -ck:

No "official" set of rules was ever published, because if rules are set in stone, then people will come up with clever ways to bypass them, and then complain when a moderator takes action.
This is so true it's scary. I think it's important to point out that it's even more important to stick to the "spirit" of the rule rather than to the letter of the rule. There will always be a roundabout way to interpret rules that make it such that you're sticking strictly to the letter of the rule, even if you're clearly crossing the boundary. To that end, the rules should also stipulate that someone trying to get around the rules by sticking to them on a literal level while clearly infringing on what the rule was intended to prevent, is also not allowed.

So it seems that the ability of a moderator to interpret the rules is a way to automatically close any loopholes in the rules, and not a way to give moderators unlimited discretion in their moderation. I believe that moderators should cite rules, precedent and facts when backing up decisions, and not "rule 23"
copper member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1520
No I dont escrow anymore.
October 10, 2015, 01:27:18 AM
#50
Applying a rule in a section of which such rule does not apply is not being more strict then other moderators, it is incorrectly applying a rule.
-snip-

Its your interpretation that the rule is only applicable to the marketplace section, Laudas is different. Yes, its in the "marketplace rules" thread, but the no begging rule is in the NEWBIE README. I dont think anyone thinks its only applicable in the newbie section or only aimed towards newbies. Following your logic however begging from Jr. Members outside the Beginners & Help section should be fine.

-snip-
I don't think it is any big deal if a moderator incorrect applies a rule on a limited basis, provided that there was not malicious intent (which I do not believe there was in this case). Believe it or not, but moderators are human and sometimes make mistakes

I agree, but I also dont see a clear case of incorrectly applying a rule, nor is it arbitrary. The rule might have been meant as marketplace specific, but I dont think its as as clear as you try to paint it.
copper member
Activity: 2870
Merit: 2298
October 10, 2015, 01:12:53 AM
#49
Applying a rule in a section of which such rule does not apply is not being more strict then other moderators, it is incorrectly applying a rule.

An example of being more strict about the one bump per 24 hour rule would be a moderator deleting an update that was posted 23 hours after the previous update, while a more liberal moderator might allow that update to stay since it is close to the 24 hour threshold.

An example of incorrectly applying a rule would be to move a giveaway thread (giving away bitcoin) that is filed in games and rounds to the trashcan because giveaway threads do not belong in the gambling section (or because altcoin giveaways are not allowed).

I don't think it is any big deal if a moderator incorrect applies a rule on a limited basis, provided that there was not malicious intent (which I do not believe there was in this case). Believe it or not, but moderators are human and sometimes make mistakes
copper member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1520
No I dont escrow anymore.
October 10, 2015, 12:46:20 AM
#48
Define: Arbitrary
ar·bi·trar·y
ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
"his mealtimes were entirely arbitrary"
synonyms:   capricious, whimsical, random, chance, unpredictable;

Define: Rule
rule
ro͞ol/Submit
noun
1.
one of a set of explicit or understood regulations or principles governing conduct within a particular activity or sphere.
"the rules of the game were understood"
synonyms:   regulation, ruling, directive, order, act, law, statute, edict, canon, mandate, command, dictate, decree, fiat, injunction, commandment, stipulation, requirement, guideline, direction; formalordinance




Arbitrary rules are not rules.

The beauty of rules is that they are not arbitrary.

Yet its not arbitrary, since the choice is not random, but rather deliberate and based on a system of rules. Only the nuances are up to the moderator handling the report. Lauda may be a more strict mod, but that is not random.
hero member
Activity: 788
Merit: 1000
October 09, 2015, 11:09:59 PM
#47
Define: Arbitrary
ar·bi·trar·y
ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
"his mealtimes were entirely arbitrary"
synonyms:   capricious, whimsical, random, chance, unpredictable;

Define: Rule
rule
ro͞ol/Submit
noun
1.
one of a set of explicit or understood regulations or principles governing conduct within a particular activity or sphere.
"the rules of the game were understood"
synonyms:   regulation, ruling, directive, order, act, law, statute, edict, canon, mandate, command, dictate, decree, fiat, injunction, commandment, stipulation, requirement, guideline, direction; formalordinance




Arbitrary rules are not rules.

The beauty of rules is that they are not arbitrary.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
October 09, 2015, 11:43:33 AM
#46
If such posts do not break any forum rules (which appears to be the case, since the posts are still up), would you agree that a retraction and an appology from Lauda may have been instrumental in amicably resolving this issue?
Quote from: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/unofficial-list-of-official-bitcointalkorg-rules-guidelines-faq-703657
23. When deciding if a user has broken the rules, the staff have the right to follow their interpretation of the rules.[e]
Legal note: this post is based on the forum policy, not mine.
So answer to your question is unfortunately no.

TL;DR: No retraction, even if Lauda made a mistake. Because Lauda couldn't have made a mistake as long as Lauda felt she was right--everything's open to interpretation, learn to special reletivity bro!'

You do realize the 'rule' you've quoted is a parody of what rules are.  It makes all the other forum rules totally irrelevant.  I men sure, they already are, being unofficial & unbinding, but that 'right to follow their interpretation' just sorta punctuates the charade with a dose of extra lel. In so many words, it tells users 'rules are whatever mods think they are, so appealing anything is a fool's errand.'

Sincerely,

--Lord of the Flies

P.S. Unjustifiably selective moderation? In MY bitcointalk?
copper member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1520
No I dont escrow anymore.
October 09, 2015, 11:24:07 AM
#45
-snip-
If such posts do not break any forum rules (which appears to be the case, since the posts are still up), would you agree that a retraction and an appology from Lauda may have been instrumental in amicably resolving this issue?

I think what you fail to grasp is that there are no hard rules. If Lauda thinks (or thought, mods are people and may change their mind) the post in question is a violation of the given rule they can act accordingly. That does not imply that every other mod has to act in the same way. Other mods are free to interpret the rules the way Quickseller suggested upthread and mark the report as bad, because it does not apply to threads outside of the marketplace area.

Edit: mexxer-2 beat me to it, see the quote above.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1005
4 Mana 7/7
October 09, 2015, 11:20:58 AM
#44
If such posts do not break any forum rules (which appears to be the case, since the posts are still up), would you agree that a retraction and an appology from Lauda may have been instrumental in amicably resolving this issue?
Quote from: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/unofficial-list-of-official-bitcointalkorg-rules-guidelines-faq-703657


23. When deciding if a user has broken the rules, the staff have the right to follow their interpretation of the rules.[e]


Legal note: this post is based on the forum policy, not mine.
So answer to your question is unfortunately no.
She interpreted it as you breaking a forum rule, global moderator didn't think so, and Lauda has replied that the matter is being looked into as well

Edit: Feels good to be faster than shorena
Edit: mexxer-2 beat me to it, see the quote above.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
October 09, 2015, 11:12:17 AM
#43
...she is only a patroller and she can only delete/nuke a newbie member, and the person you have quoted is not a newbie. ...
Ah, thanks, simple explanation, didn't know that.
Quote
And as she has repeated, she interpreted the rules as something(which she is given the right to do) and the Golbal moderator(responsible for spam post from ranks higher than newbie) could've interpreted it such that it didn't break any forum rules
If such posts do not break any forum rules (which appears to be the case, since the posts are still up), would you agree that a retraction and an appology from Lauda may have been instrumental in amicably resolving this issue?
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1005
4 Mana 7/7
October 09, 2015, 10:45:08 AM
#42
And yet you claim to be powerless to deal with a user, on the same sub, who posts 17 screencaps in a row? Can you hint at just how a thing like that is possible?
She is powerless to do something as she is only a patroller and she can only delete/nuke a newbie member, and the person you have quoted is not a newbie.
And as she has repeated, she interpreted the rules as something(which she is given the right to do) and the Golbal moderator(responsible for spam post from ranks higher than newbie) could've interpreted it such that it didn't break any forum rules
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
October 09, 2015, 10:38:11 AM
#41
Okay let me say this one more time. I can not handle that user, and thus you should not be coming to me with those posts (it's being evaluated).
I did not 'come to [you],' you came to me.
I've reported the posts -- five through the 'report to moderator' feature, 18 in this thread. As of right now, nothing was done.

Must admit tho, I'm at a loss.  You've deleted my post, from my thread, allegedly for 'bumping' -- posting twice in a row. Clearly, doing so was within your scope.

And yet you claim to be powerless to deal with a user, on the same sub, who posts 17 screencaps in a row? Can you hint at just how a thing like that is possible?
Im sure your childishness will result in what you crave.
Dunno. Seems to be working OK for now.
We'll see how it goes.
copper member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1520
No I dont escrow anymore.
October 09, 2015, 07:32:32 AM
#40
-snip-

Im sure your childishness will result in what you crave.

"You have reported 5 posts with 0% accuracy"
Can one of the anointed explain this shit?

Id guess they are not handled yet.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
October 09, 2015, 03:29:34 AM
#39
Okay let me say this one more time. I can not handle that user, and thus you should not be coming to me with those posts (it's being evaluated). Different moderators interpret rules differently. I've left your thread as it is for the moment. As said, if someone thinks that you're doing it for the wrong reasons then they might be deleted.


Tl;dr: Only 1 post was deleted so remain calm. Your thread is still intact and so is the other one. I'll let someone with more experience decide on these two.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1005
★Nitrogensports.eu★
October 09, 2015, 01:41:02 AM
#38
IMO any kind of posts which is made just to spread FUD about bitcoin should be deleted on sight or at least moderated to some degree. but I might be biased.
So you want to enforce almost nazi moderation on people? And be like: "If you don't like it - delete it?" That is not the way imo.
Some FUD stories are based on solid ground, some are not. Deleting everything slightly FUDish is not good option.
Of course, I am not against deletion of some posts\topics if someone is posting total nonsense.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
October 09, 2015, 01:01:33 AM
#37
IMO any kind of posts which is made just to spread FUD about bitcoin should be deleted on sight or at least moderated to some degree. but I might be biased.
According to Lauda, who took it upon himself to delete my post, it ran afoul of 'rule 13,' to wit:
... A bump would be something like:"bump", "up", etc. However, when you're adding more information to the thread by making a new post (when nobody has posted since your last one), you're actually bumping it up via a 'update'. ...
As you see, the 17 consecutive screengrab posts seem to qualify Smiley

As far as caring about how shittily you'd behave towards me, given but a modicum of power/authority?  I don't.
Merely interested in understanding the forum policy. Even that's proving to be more challenging than I've hoped.
copper member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1007
hee-ho.
October 08, 2015, 11:32:25 PM
#36
IMO any kind of posts which is made just to spread FUD about bitcoin should be deleted on sight or at least moderated to some degree. but I might be biased.
copper member
Activity: 2870
Merit: 2298
October 08, 2015, 11:26:22 PM
#35
"You have reported 5 posts with 0% accuracy"
Can one of the anointed explain this shit?

your 5 reported posts isnt really a spam/off topic etc that deserves to be deleted
The posts that he reported meet similar criteria of the post of the OP that was deleted....
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1030
give me your cryptos
October 08, 2015, 11:21:32 PM
#34
"You have reported 5 posts with 0% accuracy"
Can one of the anointed explain this shit?

your 5 reported posts isnt really a spam/off topic etc that deserves to be deleted
copper member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1007
hee-ho.
October 08, 2015, 11:09:47 PM
#33
at the moment I don't think there's anybody online that can see your reports (admins, GMs, or Blitz).
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
October 08, 2015, 10:44:53 PM
#32
"You have reported 5 posts with 0% accuracy"
Can one of the anointed explain this shit?
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