Winklevoss ETF update, what does this mean?

asdalani

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Quote from: Pab on March 12, 2017, 04:50:45 PM

It means btc is free from huge speculation,i really dont want to have any derivative bitcoin,may derivatives destroy fiat economy not btc

I am not sure if BTC is free from huge speculation because Bitcoin is going up in value even thought the ETF for Bitcoin didn't get approved by the SEC.
With a large current price and evading that large dump a couple of days ago, Bitcoin is looking pretty strong.

Fiat isn't getting that less valuable within these past days and the price of Bitcoin is going up pretty quickly, so I am pretty sure that Bitcoin is getting more expensive and more speculation will happen.

Pab

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It means btc is free from huge speculation,i really dont want to have any derivative bitcoin,may derivatives destroy fiat economy not btc

jbreher

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Quote from: Bitcoin_Mafia_Me on March 12, 2017, 12:54:08 PM

The author raises several good points, especially with regards to the effect that a massive influx of new mainstream
investors' transactions would have on the bitcoin network and transaction times.

That concern seems kind of silly. An ETF will likely batch all buys and sells of bitcoin needed to back ETF shares into a daily or hourly transaction. Their impact to the transaction rate would therefore be negligible.

QuestionAuthority

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I think people are missing the point of what the SEC said so I'll clean that meaning up for you:

Quote

Based on the record before it, the Commission believes that the significant markets (all the crooked exchanges and scammer businesses) for bitcoin are unregulated. Therefore, as the Exchange has not entered into, and would currently be unable to enter into, the type of surveillance-sharing agreement (no one can know what tricks the manipulators are using world wide) that has been in place with respect to all previously approved commodity-trust ETPs—agreements that help address concerns about the potential for fraudulent or manipulative acts and practices in this market (con-artists can run rampant in bitcoin markets and we will never know it until it's too late, and like with MtGox, we may know and try but can't really do anything because the scumbags are hiding in a foreign country).

Valiance

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Quote from: Blawpaw on March 12, 2017, 11:56:46 AM

Ok. time it got rejected, but I do believe they will submit a new request. So, the ETF could be accepted right in 2018. I'm positive that sooner or later the SEC will accept the Bitcoin ETF

Unless Bitcoin removes all principles and traces of its original purpose, it's not going to happen. The SEC were very clear on their concerns about fraud and money laundering carried out with Bitcoin, and these are realistically part of the Bitcoin network and they are not things that are just going to magically disappear (rightly so, to be honest).

PetroffVany

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Quote from: lionheart78 on March 12, 2017, 12:50:22 PM

Quote from: xskl0 on March 12, 2017, 12:42:28 PM

Quote from: Blawpaw on March 12, 2017, 11:56:46 AM

Ok. time it got rejected, but I do believe they will submit a new request. So, the ETF could be accepted right in 2018. I'm positive that sooner or later the SEC will accept the Bitcoin ETF

Of course, the no that they recived is not definitive at all

but I think Bitcoin is best without ETF. If SEC decision on rejecting ETF is because Bitcoin is unregulated, then ETF regarding Bitcoin will never be approved because Bitcoin Market proves to be at best when it is not regulated. Besides, if someone applied for something that needs regulation then we are moving out of Bitcoin strongest point. The being unregulated currency.

I agree with you - the commission has already made its final decision. And I very much doubt that bitcoin will be approved in the next few years. But, fortunately, this practically did not affect the price of bitcoin

buwaytress

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Quote from: Bitcoin_Mafia_Me on March 12, 2017, 12:54:08 PM

While a lot of folks are wringing their hands over the ETF being shot down, I saw an article on Bitcoinist that
has a more positive take on things:

http://bitcoinist.com/6-reasons-etf-defeat-win-bitcoin/

The author raises several good points, especially with regards to the effect that a massive influx of new mainstream
investors' transactions would have on the bitcoin network and transaction times.

Sounds plausible really, and I have always thought that the increased traffic, higher frequency of congestion of longer tx times are really just matters and issues that a mature coin should be facing (and yes, I do mean mature in the context as first mover!).

Bitcoin_Mafia_Me

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While a lot of folks are wringing their hands over the ETF being shot down, I saw an article on Bitcoinist that
has a more positive take on things:

http://bitcoinist.com/6-reasons-etf-defeat-win-bitcoin/

The author raises several good points, especially with regards to the effect that a massive influx of new mainstream
investors' transactions would have on the bitcoin network and transaction times.

lionheart78

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Quote from: xskl0 on March 12, 2017, 12:42:28 PM

Quote from: Blawpaw on March 12, 2017, 11:56:46 AM

Ok. time it got rejected, but I do believe they will submit a new request. So, the ETF could be accepted right in 2018. I'm positive that sooner or later the SEC will accept the Bitcoin ETF

Of course, the no that they recived is not definitive at all

but I think Bitcoin is best without ETF. If SEC decision on rejecting ETF is because Bitcoin is unregulated, then ETF regarding Bitcoin will never be approved because Bitcoin Market proves to be at best when it is not regulated. Besides, if someone applied for something that needs regulation then we are moving out of Bitcoin strongest point. The being unregulated currency.

xskl0

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Quote from: Blawpaw on March 12, 2017, 11:56:46 AM

Ok. time it got rejected, but I do believe they will submit a new request. So, the ETF could be accepted right in 2018. I'm positive that sooner or later the SEC will accept the Bitcoin ETF

Of course, the no that they recived is not definitive at all

Blawpaw

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Ok. time it got rejected, but I do believe they will submit a new request. So, the ETF could be accepted right in 2018. I'm positive that sooner or later the SEC will accept the Bitcoin ETF

raven7886

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Quote from: qiwoman2 on March 12, 2017, 11:30:10 AM

Well it is only a temporary setback. Bitcoin was created not just to be made into a Wall Street instrument. So with so many uses for blockchain technology and Bitcoin, a minor price setback I don't think will hurt the over all long term performance of Bitcoin. I think we are just getting started.

Yes, I am also reading those brothers have not given up about the idea of bringing bitcoin ETF. That must be really a good news for very bitcoiners to delight and have hope about future bitcoin prices. It means prices will not fall as this will be a great supportive news for this community.

Bitcoin prices also confirming this like it trades stable around $1180 levels for the whole day. Stable prices are always signal for another rally, we may need to fasten our belts very soon again. Wink

qiwoman2

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Well it is only a temporary setback. Bitcoin was created not just to be made into a Wall Street instrument. So with so many uses for blockchain technology and Bitcoin, a minor price setback I don't think will hurt the over all long term performance of Bitcoin. I think we are just getting started.

HaXX0R1337

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Quote from: asdalani on February 16, 2017, 06:37:57 PM

The Winklevoss twins been waiting for that ETF for a very long time now. By the time the ETF will get released they will be oldmen and probably forget what Bitcoin even is!

Just joking of course.

Your joke has become somewhat true in this context as SEC has rejected bitcoin and the main concern they projected is that it is not regulated and it is a risk to investors because of its limited adoption and since bitcoin is a new technology they might reconsider it later and the good part is that the rejection did not make a big significant change in the price.

00hash01

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on March 12, 2017, 01:14:54 AM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on January 07, 2015, 10:56:09 AM

Quote from: Vessko on January 07, 2015, 04:40:36 AM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on January 06, 2015, 03:46:47 PM

Tooooooo risky. Did you read the prospectus? If I was risking client money, I think I would risk their money on Somali oil reserves before this ETF.

I don't think that the ETF-specific risks will be large enough to matter. I mean, they have a large enough amount of bitcoins and it's relatively trivial to make a tracking ETF. Speculating in a volatile commodity/currency like Bitcoin is very risky per se - but if you are willing to stomach that risk, I don't think that speculating in a Bitcoin-tracking ETF would be significantly riskier.

All of this is a moot point anyway. I don't see this ever getting past the SEC.

Wow QuestionAuthority, you were right about this over two years ago. Here's the disapproval notice and what the SEC had to say about Bitcoin:

https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/batsbzx.htm

Quote from: SEC ruling

Based on the record before it, the Commission believes that the significant markets for
bitcoin are unregulated. Therefore, as the Exchange has not entered into, and would currently be
unable to enter into, the type of surveillance-sharing agreement that has been in place with
respect to all previously approved commodity-trust ETPs—agreements that help address
concerns about the potential for fraudulent or manipulative acts and practices in this market—the
Commission does not find the proposed rule change to be consistent with the Exchange Act.

Maybe I do not understand what you said, so I beg to excuse me if I make a mistake, but the fact is that manipulations continue and the example of their existence is a sharp fluctuation in the price of bitcoin. I would not even be surprised if the administrations of trade exchanges take part in this.

QuestionAuthority

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on January 07, 2015, 10:56:09 AM

Quote from: Vessko on January 07, 2015, 04:40:36 AM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on January 06, 2015, 03:46:47 PM

Tooooooo risky. Did you read the prospectus? If I was risking client money, I think I would risk their money on Somali oil reserves before this ETF.

I don't think that the ETF-specific risks will be large enough to matter. I mean, they have a large enough amount of bitcoins and it's relatively trivial to make a tracking ETF. Speculating in a volatile commodity/currency like Bitcoin is very risky per se - but if you are willing to stomach that risk, I don't think that speculating in a Bitcoin-tracking ETF would be significantly riskier.

All of this is a moot point anyway. I don't see this ever getting past the SEC.

Wow QuestionAuthority, you were right about this over two years ago. Here's the disapproval notice and what the SEC had to say about Bitcoin:

https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/batsbzx.htm

Quote from: SEC ruling

Based on the record before it, the Commission believes that the significant markets for
bitcoin are unregulated. Therefore, as the Exchange has not entered into, and would currently be
unable to enter into, the type of surveillance-sharing agreement that has been in place with
respect to all previously approved commodity-trust ETPs—agreements that help address
concerns about the potential for fraudulent or manipulative acts and practices in this market—the
Commission does not find the proposed rule change to be consistent with the Exchange Act.

asdalani

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The Winklevoss twins been waiting for that ETF for a very long time now. By the time the ETF will get released they will be oldmen and probably forget what Bitcoin even is!

Just joking of course.

Marina_T

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on February 14, 2017, 01:02:21 AM

Quote from: Marina_T on February 13, 2017, 05:45:33 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on January 27, 2017, 10:52:30 AM

Quote from: Marina_T on January 27, 2017, 09:00:04 AM

A great idea and would really change the industry but is SEC approval likely? Does not seem to be the case:
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/needham-winklevoss-bitcoin-etf-would-have-profound-impact-on-price-but-approval-unlikely-1484254628/

Hum, seems like I've heard that somewhere before. Roll Eyes

Have you heard this?

http://www.coindesk.com/winklevoss-bitcoin-etf-100-million/

Yeah, I heard they were having troubles. Now that the deadline has been pushed to the max (240 days) it's likely to fail. The history of etfs show that only 1 in 20 that have been pushed to the maximum deadline are approved.

Quote

The size of the offering has increased, from $65m to $100m, as well as a boost in the number of shares being offered, from 1m shares to 10m shares. The filing goes on to indicate that the maximum offering price per share has been lowered, from $65 down to just $10.

Two more are waiting for an approval as well (SolidX and Grayscale), hopefully in some time we will get there

QuestionAuthority

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Quote from: Marina_T on February 13, 2017, 05:45:33 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on January 27, 2017, 10:52:30 AM

Quote from: Marina_T on January 27, 2017, 09:00:04 AM

A great idea and would really change the industry but is SEC approval likely? Does not seem to be the case:
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/needham-winklevoss-bitcoin-etf-would-have-profound-impact-on-price-but-approval-unlikely-1484254628/

Hum, seems like I've heard that somewhere before. Roll Eyes

Have you heard this?

http://www.coindesk.com/winklevoss-bitcoin-etf-100-million/

Yeah, I heard they were having troubles. Now that the deadline has been pushed to the max (240 days) it's likely to fail. The history of etfs show that only 1 in 20 that have been pushed to the maximum deadline are approved.

Quote

The size of the offering has increased, from $65m to $100m, as well as a boost in the number of shares being offered, from 1m shares to 10m shares. The filing goes on to indicate that the maximum offering price per share has been lowered, from $65 down to just $10.

Marina_T

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Quote from: QuestionAuthority on January 27, 2017, 10:52:30 AM

Quote from: Marina_T on January 27, 2017, 09:00:04 AM

A great idea and would really change the industry but is SEC approval likely? Does not seem to be the case:
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/needham-winklevoss-bitcoin-etf-would-have-profound-impact-on-price-but-approval-unlikely-1484254628/

Hum, seems like I've heard that somewhere before. Roll Eyes

Have you heard this?

http://www.coindesk.com/winklevoss-bitcoin-etf-100-million/

Topic: Winklevoss ETF update, what does this mean? (Read 9515 times)