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Topic: World War 2, part (b) - page 5. (Read 8277 times)

legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
March 14, 2014, 01:10:27 PM
#12
Putin is Evil but not stupid. He knows he can get away with annexing Crimea, there's nothing the West can do about it. Ukraine has always been under Russia/Soviet's Sphere of Influence. It's their backyard/frontyard/sideyard or whatever. Ordinary people be damned. Ordinary people are stupid, have you heard that majority of Russian people are supporting their dictator right now?

james, can you explain to me the motivations of the US and Russia's involvement in this situation? I've so far had a hard time wrapping my head around that part. Your post indicates a perception of Putin acting out of greed (a trait of being evil) and I just want to know how it's different from what everyone else is doing there.

Putin is in a fight for his ego.  His propaganda reveals his self-image.  To maintain his identity, he must not back down, must out-game all opponents, and make continual gains.  This is perfectly aligned with his domestic political requirements.  Expanding empire is good for the oligarchs he represents and manages, and good for his popular support.  His most obvious weakness:  Dependence on internal backers, whose interests may change skew to his own.  We have a mafioso in power in Russia.  He's more like Don Corleone than Hitler, but there are similarities to both.

Russian invasion of Ukraine at SOME level will not be tolerated by NATO.  He has seized Abkhazia and South Ossetia.  He has seized Transdneistra.  He has seized Crimea.  If he seizes Ukraine it seems clear he will seize the Baltic States.  Hell, why not Finland?  Why not assimilate Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan?  We've been down this road before.  Poland in WW2 had its borders guaranteed by UK.  Ukraine today had its borders guaranteed by US UK and RU.  If Russia stays in Ukraine, Ukraine will re-arm nuclear.  NATO does not want that, at least not unless Ukraine is both stable and part of NATO.  Putin would rather invade Ukraine entire than invade part and face a nuclear Ukraine in 2 years time.

To say there is nothing the west can do about it seems very questionable to me.  Putin can be removed.  Economic measures can be taken which would beggar Russia, causing him to be deposed.  Military action can be taken to strengthen Ukraine.  Political action can be taken, to incorporate Ukraine into NATO, or offer that as a chip to bargain against Crimea.  In a political game, ground truth is critical.  Putin is motivated to grab as much as he can before coming to the bargaining table.  If he does that badly, there will be copious blood.  The west has strong incentives to stop him before he gains more power, more momentum, and more bargaining chips.  In fact, given his history, it seems clear to me at least that he must be punished.  Some chips must be removed from his kitty, or he will just do it again on another front.



sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 251
Giga
March 14, 2014, 01:00:47 PM
#11
Nothing will happen, not a world war. Maybe market reactions but that's about it.

And lot of politians cursing one another  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
March 14, 2014, 12:56:25 PM
#10
Not true. Bitcoin is and has been traded in terms of gold.

Yeah whatever.

Believe whatever makes you feel good m8.
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
March 14, 2014, 12:54:53 PM
#9
Currencies would collapse , only people in bitcoin/litecoin gold and silver would be able to preserve their wealth.

Deary me.  Roll Eyes

If the USD collapsed, not that it is going to anytime soon but if it did, then Bitcoin/Litecoin, and all the other junk coins would be worth exactly their weight in gold. Nothing. Bitcoin's value is directly related to their rate of interchangeability to government backed currencies.

Not true. Bitcoin is and has been traded in terms of gold.

Edit: A collapse of the USD could very easily lead in an increase in the value of Bitcoin in terms of gold.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
March 14, 2014, 12:48:08 PM
#8
Currencies would collapse , only people in bitcoin/litecoin gold and silver would be able to preserve their wealth.

Deary me.  Roll Eyes

If the USD collapsed, not that it is going to anytime soon but if it did, then Bitcoin/Litecoin, and all the other junk coins would be worth exactly their weight in gold. Nothing. Bitcoin's value is directly related to their rate of interchangeability to government backed currencies.
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
March 14, 2014, 12:40:50 PM
#7
A good way to get a head of future market moves is to game out important scenarios, i.e. ones which result in market moves.  I think WW2b is an important scenario.  Here's my WW2b scenario:  

Occupied Crimea votes independence from Ukraine.  
Ukraine mobilizes military in eastern Ukraine.  
Putin invades eastern Ukraine to "protect ethnic Russians".  
Ukrainian military retreats.  
NATO enters Ukraine.  
Ukraine military re-enters eastern Ukraine.  
Putin escalates in eastern Ukraine.  
Ukraine military retreats.  
NATO in force.  
NATO - Russian air conflict, Russia suffers loses.
NATO - Russian ground conflict, NATO suffers loses.  
NATO uses tactical nukes.  
Putin nukes New York.

How does this scenario affect Bitcoin?

Are there scenarios in Transdniestra or the Baltics which are more likely to escalate than the more narrowly focused conflict in Ukraine?


WWII??? Its WWIII!!  Roll Eyes

Yes. This is a WWIII scenario. As for Bitcoin the question then becomes how many nodes do you have to nuke in order to knock out the entire network?
legendary
Activity: 896
Merit: 1001
March 14, 2014, 12:37:15 PM
#6
Putin is Evil but not stupid. He knows he can get away with annexing Crimea, there's nothing the West can do about it. Ukraine has always been under Russia/Soviet's Sphere of Influence. It's their backyard/frontyard/sideyard or whatever. Ordinary people be damned. Ordinary people are stupid, have you heard that majority of Russian people are supporting their dictator right now?

james, can you explain to me the motivations of the US and Russia's involvement in this situation? I've so far had a hard time wrapping my head around that part. Your post indicates a perception of Putin acting out of greed (a trait of being evil) and I just want to know how it's different from what everyone else is doing there.
newbie
Activity: 36
Merit: 0
March 14, 2014, 12:34:43 PM
#5
A good way to get a head of future market moves is to game out important scenarios, i.e. ones which result in market moves.  I think WW2b is an important scenario.  Here's my WW2b scenario:  

Occupied Crimea votes independence from Ukraine.  
Ukraine mobilizes military in eastern Ukraine.  
Putin invades eastern Ukraine to "protect ethnic Russians".  
Ukrainian military retreats.  
NATO enters Ukraine.  
Ukraine military re-enters eastern Ukraine.  
Putin escalates in eastern Ukraine.  
Ukraine military retreats.  
NATO in force.  
NATO - Russian air conflict, Russia suffers loses.
NATO - Russian ground conflict, NATO suffers loses.  
NATO uses tactical nukes.  
Putin nukes New York.

How does this scenario affect Bitcoin?

Are there scenarios in Transdniestra or the Baltics which are more likely to escalate than the more narrowly focused conflict in Ukraine?


WWII??? Its WWIII!!  Roll Eyes
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
March 14, 2014, 12:29:50 PM
#4
Putin is Evil but not stupid. He knows he can get away with annexing Crimea, there's nothing the West can do about it. Ukraine has always been under Russia/Soviet's Sphere of Influence. It's their backyard/frontyard/sideyard or whatever. Ordinary people be damned. Ordinary people are stupid, have you heard that majority of Russian people are supporting their dictator right now?
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
March 14, 2014, 12:24:06 PM
#3
The West has shown no inclination to fight, so I think your event chain breaks down pretty quickly.  But as World War I showed, if nations do want to fight the excuse can come from the most minor of events.

I do agree that it NYC gets nuked, it is pretty bad for most conventional currencies and probably curtains for the USD as the dominant reserve currency.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
March 14, 2014, 12:18:57 PM
#2
Currencies would collapse , only people in bitcoin/litecoin gold and silver would be able to preserve their wealth.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
March 14, 2014, 12:13:24 PM
#1
A good way to get a head of future market moves is to game out important scenarios, i.e. ones which result in market moves.  I think WW2b is an important scenario.  Here's my WW2b scenario:  

Occupied Crimea votes independence from Ukraine.  
Ukraine mobilizes military in eastern Ukraine.  
Putin invades eastern Ukraine to "protect ethnic Russians".  
Ukrainian military retreats.  
NATO enters Ukraine.  
Ukraine military re-enters eastern Ukraine.  
Putin escalates in eastern Ukraine.  
Ukraine military retreats.  
NATO in force.  
NATO - Russian air conflict, Russia suffers loses.
NATO - Russian ground conflict, NATO suffers loses.  
NATO uses tactical nukes.  
Putin nukes New York.

How does this scenario affect Bitcoin?

Are there scenarios in Transdniestra or the Baltics which are more likely to escalate than the more narrowly focused conflict in Ukraine?
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