Write a song with your seed phrase - page 2.

aylabadia05

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Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

EDIT

I am not suggesting this to be your only option for storing your seed phrase. I just thought it could be helpful to remember your seed phrase, in case you lose your backups.

Do not joke on something serious because it will bring disaster to us.
We as humans are created perfect when compared to other creatures on earth. We have reason and with reason we are required to think.

We understand that making as you say is to help remember the 12 word phrase. But we must also understand that when we experience a disaster such as a car accident that causes problems in the brain, are we still able to remember even though we have made it into a song?

It's better to save the phrase in some place offline that we can read.

Fivestar4everMVP

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Sorry but I must say that this is the worst idea of ways to store seed phrases, though unique in its way.
Personally, if since 2015 I got into crypto, I've not had issues finding or remembering my seed phrases I wrote on paper, I don't see any reason why I should start writing a song using my seed phrase, besides, what's the essence of writing a song that will never be recorded, waxed and released to the public?
I will rather continue in my old style of writing my seed phrase in a piece of paper and keeping it safe, releasing a song with my seed phrase as part of the lyrics is a risk I would never take, don't ever underestimate how knowledgeable and smart people can be.

goldkingcoiner

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A seed phrase song? Seems like encryption but a bit lazier. Why not just think of your own simple encryption algorithm and write it down like that? Not that I am condoning writing down seed phrases in any way or form. I still think its a bad idea. Surely 12 words are not that hard to commit to memory long term? Just recite it everyday until you have it in your long term memory. OR better yet, every time you access your wallet, access it with your seed phrase. If you do that everyday at some point that phrase will become indented into your memory. No need to leave physical or digital storage.

The Cryptovator

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I'm not recognizing What is the difference between writing a seed phrase and writing a song with your seed phrase? Because we can't recall our seed phrase, how can we recall song along with seed phrase? How will my seeds be identified if I write seed phrases with songs? That we have to memorize. I'm not certain that if I understood the OP correctly.

Jatiluhung

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Remembering 12 personal wallet phrase codes I don't think is as difficult as you think. But if the 12 phrases are only stored in memory then it is not recommended. because a memory is sometimes affected by its forgotten name, even a memory can be a little mistaken. but if we write it on a special paper and stored in a place that we think is safe then that's better. But actually I personally do both.

I write on special paper using a white crayon. so the text is not visible. and will only be visible when washed with other color paint.
I also remember the first 2 letters of the phrase my personal wallet which is specifically used for storing my long term investment assets.
I haven't thought about turning it into a song lyric. I prefer the way I do it myself.

Bitstar_coin

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Whether a song or poem it is still important to put it down in writing in a safe place that is only accessible to you. Memory can fail someone but if you can back it up somewhere it will be better.
Am not sure this is something I would do since I have my seed phrase written down and lock up somewhere, but I do find the idea interesting and probably useful in a way, memorizing a phrase in the form of a song or poem can make room for easy access instead of always trying to reach them anytime they are required.

uneng

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I believe it's a good idea only if you keep this song hidden from everyone else like you would keep your secret words written on a paper, because if someone have access to your song they can copy it and try opening your wallet with the words containing on it until they match the correct ones and their correct sequence. I guess it wouldn't be a hard task for a hacker to decipher the secret behind a short song of probably few verses with very discordant words from each other.

Welsh

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Quote from: BTCapsule on November 17, 2022, 11:28:35 AM

Yes, I wouldn’t recommend creating a song out of the word list. I meant once you have your seed phrase (perhaps given to you by your wallet), then creating a melody with those words.

I do get that, but if you had this written down somewhere, it could potentially be guess if it only contained the words in your seed. Since, there's some words that stand out in the list, which aren't commonly used, and might accidentally indicate to whoever happens upon this piece of paper that it's a backup technique. It's not a technique that's unheard of.

That's if you write it down, if you solely rely on memory that has it's own issues. Again, it comes down to physical security, and while a well executed song of your seed might add a extra layer of security, it's probably unnecessary if your physical security is already substantial, which it ideally should be.

BTCapsule

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Quote from: Welsh on November 17, 2022, 11:02:33 AM

Quote from: wxa7115 on November 16, 2022, 11:41:28 PM

It is not a bad idea as this is a very old trick used to remember all kind of information that people have known for a very long time, but it should not replace traditional backups and at best it should be used as a last resort.

Well, it could be. Obviously, users here have already mentioned the memory problem, however what about not adding enough entropy. Since, seed words are well known at this point, and it's open source anyhow. Therefore, if you don't put words that are in that list, and aren't part of your seed, the entropy is actually terrible. Obviously, this only goes for if you're writing this down, but generally to remember something as complex as this you'd need to write it down.

Besides, as long as you look after your physical security, then you don't need to complicate things further by doing something like this.

Yes, I wouldn’t recommend creating a song out of the word list. I meant once you have your seed phrase (perhaps given to you by your wallet), then creating a melody with those words.

BTCapsule

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on November 17, 2022, 11:18:32 AM

Quote from: BTCapsule on November 17, 2022, 10:47:15 AM

What are the disadvantages of memorizing your seed phrase?

You rely on human brain and memory, both of which are proven improper for this job. There have been countless of incidents of people who just forgot a few words, or the order of the words years later, and got locked off their wallet. It gives you a false sense of security. You should better find a secure alternative.

Yes, I understand why relying on memory is a terrible idea, but I’m not suggesting that you rely on this technique; just that it could help people remember in case they lose their physical copies. It seems if you lose your physical copies, and also forget the lyrics to the song you wrote, then you’re in no worse position than if you lose your physical copies and never attempted to memorize your seed phrase.

Asiska02

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This might be a pretty effective technique to retain it in your memory, however I think memory lapses occasionally, and if that happens, I suppose your seed phrase is lost. There's a good chance you'll forget it in 3-6 months if you don't sing it frequently because you don't get to sing it constantly in your mind because it is not necessary.

The lack of rhymes in the seed phrase you use to put it together is another example that comes from memorizing this in the brain. The sentences could not fit together to create a musical rhyme that the brain can grasp. As a result, some pronouns or words will be added, which could cause the seed phrase to completely change and include a term that wasn't originally there.

buwaytress

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Good point on entropy from Welsh, and I would add that adding an extra word or two, particularly in non-english languages with recognised romanised spelling, to yr phrase can help with that, can help with a song, and anyway deters cracking using recognised dictionaries.

I don't know well enough if that's bad practice but no one has ever pointed out to me it is, I do know that it has been pointed out it doesn't actually improve the security of an already properly randomised seed selection.

BlackHatCoiner

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Quote from: BTCapsule on November 17, 2022, 10:47:15 AM

What are the disadvantages of memorizing your seed phrase?

You rely on human brain and memory, both of which are proven improper for this job. There have been countless of incidents of people who just forgot a few words, or the order of the words years later, and got locked off their wallet. It gives you a false sense of security. You should better find a secure alternative.

Quote from: xSkylarx on November 17, 2022, 11:12:40 AM

Good idea, but I am not really into memorizing it; I am always the guy who is putting it on paper or storing it in my drive as it is accessible to me.

Storing the seed phrase to a hard drive is also non-recommended.

kryptqnick

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I find the general idea of hiding a pass phrase in art appealing. A friend of mine once used a fictional text and inserted the passphrase there as words of one character where a character did not speak clearly. It took some time to find the phrase, of course, but it's possible when you know where to look. Making a song with the words also sounds like a creative idea, but if a song is known to anyone, people can probably brute force the pass phrase quite fast (given that all the right words are already in a very small text), whereas if a song is only known by the person who made the lyrics, there's a good chance of just forgetting it. Have you never written some poetry but have now zero idea of the words in those verses? I think it's a pretty common issue, unless one has an incredibly reliable memory. With mine, I wouldn't risk it.

xSkylarx

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Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

"I wish I was like you
Easily amused
Find my nest of salt
Everything’s my fault
I'll take all the blame
Aqua sea foam shame
Sunburn freezer burn
Choking on the ashes of her enemy"

- All Apologies by Nirvana

Humans have trouble remembering nonsense like 12 random words, but if you write some lyrics and add the melody to your favorite song, it’s a lot easier. I have no idea what Kurt Cobain is talking about above, but if the melody is good, we can remember any combination of words.

EDIT

I am not suggesting this to be your only option for storing your seed phrase. I just thought it could be helpful to remember your seed phrase, in case you lose your backups.

Good idea, but I am not really into memorizing it; I am always the guy who is putting it on paper or storing it in my drive as it is accessible to me. I will try it when I create a wallet soon. But the problem is if I forget it? I am a very forgetful person, though I can see the advantages of this if you need to use it like you don't have a physical copy of your seed phrase, and it is not accessible to the one you've saved on your computer. This is nice in this kind of situation

Welsh

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Quote from: wxa7115 on November 16, 2022, 11:41:28 PM

It is not a bad idea as this is a very old trick used to remember all kind of information that people have known for a very long time, but it should not replace traditional backups and at best it should be used as a last resort.

Well, it could be. Obviously, users here have already mentioned the memory problem, however what about not adding enough entropy. Since, seed words are well known at this point, and it's open source anyhow. Therefore, if you don't put words that are in that list, and aren't part of your seed, the entropy is actually terrible. Obviously, this only goes for if you're writing this down, but generally to remember something as complex as this you'd need to write it down.

Besides, as long as you look after your physical security, then you don't need to complicate things further by doing something like this.

BTCapsule

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on November 17, 2022, 10:29:46 AM

Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

I am not suggesting this to be ~~your only~~ an option for storing your seed phrase at all.

FTFY.

It is repeatedly told that storing a seed phrase in a non-standard way is prone to error. What's so hard to comprehend about that? You don't store your seed phrase into your head, or write a song about it, or write a book about it, or paint a board about it, or keep each word in distant places, or convert the seed into emojis, or use the hash of a password of your choice as seed etc., etc., etc. You can think of a billion "fun" ways to take care of your seed phrase, but it's irresponsible the least to avoid the known, simple ones everybody uses.

What are the disadvantages of memorizing your seed phrase? I definitely understand why depending on a brain wallet is a bad idea, but as a last resort backup, I’m not sure I understand why this is discouraged.

CryptSafe

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Using your seed phrase in such capacity is not bad but I think being able to keep memorizing it on daily basis is. Can you be able to do that every day as long as time passes by in years as the case maybe as long as you have that wallet in usage. Come to talk of it, there are lots of activities one gets him or herself involved in on daily basis so tell me if you get entangled with things on daily basis would you be able to memorize your key phrase everyday after a hectic time and keep doing this over and over. The best thing you can do is to keep record of your seed phrase in a particular place where only you can access it at any point in time while you do your memorising work as that phrase is the key to your assets.

BlackHatCoiner

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Quote from: BTCapsule on November 16, 2022, 04:45:03 PM

I am not suggesting this to be ~~your only~~ an option for storing your seed phrase at all.

FTFY.

It is repeatedly told that storing a seed phrase in a non-standard way is prone to error. What's so hard to comprehend about that? You don't store your seed phrase into your head, or write a song about it, or write a book about it, or paint a board about it, or keep each word in distant places, or convert the seed into emojis, or use the hash of a password of your choice as seed etc., etc., etc. You can think of a billion "fun" ways to take care of your seed phrase, but it's irresponsible the least to avoid the known, simple ones everybody uses.

swogerino

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That is not something that works always,how many times our memory fails us in the most important part of an exam for example,the same thing can happen to your seed if you forget about it after a long time of creating such a melody.

What I do is to keep 4 words of the seed in an offline Laptop that I almost never use,4 words of it in my phone and 4 words of it in a document in another PC to make it difficult for attackers while I have access to all these devices.I have also a small safe and a paper with all the 12 words if anything bad (failure) happens to my devices.

Topic: Write a song with your seed phrase - page 2. (Read 566 times)