Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1198. (Read 4670643 times)

actually, everything can get discussed ... we will see in process
one of the thing I just though about, I maybe get a helper, who contacted me. should I suggests him to work for free and get earning some day...

I don't call everyone to trust me, I offered various solutions

Yeah I have worked as freelancer myself for a few years, I know to define the terms clearly upfront and for the most part I had few issues and usually did not require upfront payment. I consider escrow a sort of upfront payment because as long as you fulfill your part of the deal, the money will be yours. I personally will not participate in this without escrow and clearly defined terms, but I do wish you, and the donators, the best of luck in making it succeed.

As I said, if you (not you personally, but anyone involved) want to do escrow then define suitable completion criteria and you don't have to worry about nondelivery or nonpayment unless you don't trust the escrow (in which case its wrong escrow to choose).

For example one criterion might be that it compiles and is able to complete one XMR transaction. Easily verified by everyone involved. Anyway, you get the idea.

This one I have to question. A lot of legal users stick with google chat, skype, etc., which are both "encrypted" I think, but not so useful for illegality.

Good points generally though.

like you have a bad expirience with donate for scam project, I have a bad expensive with some customers who didn't paid after work because some of them (also due to having less technical notion) imagined something other as a result, or just disappered with my done solution, or were in a bad mood or something like that.. just human factor, many years enough to decide only to work with prepayment

It's pretty obvious for everybody, by just looking in tech-history or applying scientific methods and instruments (network effects, brand knowledge hype, importance and volume of DM E-Commerce on TOR, ...), that the leading DarkMarket coin will be also leading privacy-coin for legal trades.

Any efforts that introduces an distinction of usage in wanted [legal] and not (so much) wanted usage [non 100% legal], by is excluding, discouring DM usage is flawed and will surely harm masssively or kill the project longterm.
There is only one avaible free market segment to conquer: its becoming "the leading anon cryptocurreny". The are no "two different" markets, with different user communities and people,  with one searching a good coin for legal trades only and the other searching a coin to pay securely on illegal DarkNet trades.
A coin is needed and will win this battles that is well performing and is secure in both (legal and non-legal).

Clear Example:
Like there is only one leading File-Encrypting-Software with TrueCrypt. TC is used for illegal and legal activities. There is no software focussing legal usage of file encryption & another one focussing illegal usage of file encryption. It's just one project dominated the whole market segmnet.

Like there is only one leading Mail-Encrypting-Standard with PGP. PGP is used for illegal and legal activities. There is no mail encrytions solutions focussing legal usage & another one focussing illegal usage of mail encryption. It's just one standard dominated the whole same market segmnet.

Software tools for hackers and pentesters arent defined in legal usage and non-legal usage. There is only nmap to scan hosts and not one (legal) nmap for pentesters and another nmap project for hackers to use in illegal activity.
There is only one Metasploit framework for legal (pentesters, devs) and illegal users (hackers, cybercrime users). No distinction.
Or look at leading messenger encryption, its being OTR used 90% users that encryptions chat. There is no chat encryptin for legal talks and another for crime related chat. Just one.


For me, it's evident and logically that leading anon-coin (biggest project, best community, etc.) for legal usage is the same coin, that is leading on DarkMarkets.

Also DarkMarket volume is very, very big and only grows. Buying weed on TOR is mainstream, like illegal downloading with torrents,  CP on TOR, clearnet web-based illegal streaming sites, warez-software-downloads sites, etc. This is stuff that wont go away. DM trading will get bigger and more professional.
I would guess that people, who need the coin to pay on DarkMarkets are 4 or 5 times as many as the people needing an anon-coin just personal privacy reasons/interessts.
If you talk RL bitcoin sellers in big cities, they always said that 80% or more of the people who bought Bitcoins from them, wanted to buy drugs on DM.



I would suggest, if you live in a country that put you in jail for developing software that's used in DarkMarket E-Commerce, then don't talk about DarkMarket-stuff in public.
There are core-devs who can talk about it, because they live in free countries or they are anon.

Dont do these strange, implausible and overcorrect statements of disapproving, any software-usage you cant talk about.

There's a difference between making something illegal and enforcing it.

Cash can be made illegal, but governments can't (easily) stop people from using it. I think the only reason banks still print physical money is because if they didn't something else would take it's place.

Monero (as a virtual cash) should be usable regardless of whether governments are okay with it. To me that's the entire point.

Please explain the bold.

Don't be ridiculous. You shouldn't get offended if people on the internet don't trust you.

Updated list.

Going to re-watch The Dallas Buyer's Club and Schindler's List and hope the anonymous movement of this asset isn't dependent on laws that can be inhumane by accident or intent.

Cash can be made illegal very easily. It suffices to change banknotes and coins - something that is done routinely for decades, by the way.
So Monero IS like cash. Like cash, a decision to make it illegal can damage it.
If you want something impervious to legal action, look for comodity money (actual like, not precious metals which do not have true real life use) or more likely for bartering (cigarette works wonders when SHTF).
Update: now that I think of it, bartering could be made illegal too.

What you just suggested, however, is that Monero is nothing close to virtual cash. You're effectively saying it only behaves like cash if I use it within the legal boundaries of whatever corrupt jurisdiction I happen to be transacting in.


Actual cash behaves like cash regardless of how I use it.

I'm interested in doing that, assuming the conditions of the escrow are clearly worked out. I suggest you, David (?) and others who want to donate in this manner discuss it privately with Atrides and work out a plan (funding milestones, deliverables, etc.)

the actual list of freebazaar donators:

dnaleon 100
pa 2000
smooth 250
pwrz 100
generalizethis 50
ajiekceu 500


just to say, I offered you an alternative to donate the futher development steps if "you don't know and believe me". there is no reason to offend me without cause. if you'd mine on my pool, you'd have known, my reputation is the fisrt point for me.
I wouldn't scam for 10-13BTC, and destroy all my hard work for more than a year. I also started and spending my time for MoneroClub not to scam you for 200xmr


I still looked into OpenBazaar a couple of weeks ago to understand the concept and that it is possible to integrate Monero.
This is a rough plan for the first step:

1. to integrate monero (as a main or an alernative method to choice - monero only or monero+btc)
we have to decide if we will integrate freebazaar into the original bazaar or develop our own platform with our own features with gateway into OpenBazaar, Slur.io, Bitmarkets.

2. to replace BTC multisig-escrow for third party monero-escrow
3. a communiation with monero wallets (local client, webclient(?) mymonero)

I suppose it can take me two fully weeks till month, I already wrote, I will regular keep informed my backers group.

to work for escrow seems to work for free to me, that's right, that are my terms, I'm looking forward if you want to develop, please feel free to make your own terms. I will donate to you 200xmr without escrow to move Monero forward.

Only if you never transact with your neighbors. If you pay the neighbor's kid for babysitting or buy a raffle ticket, they can follow the connections.

Anyway, OpenBazaar isn't really a good fit for illegality at this point either. It lacks strong anonymity features (among them integration with a coin with strong anonymity features, but that's just one of many issues). It's just a p2p marketplace that has plenty of advantages (at least, potential advantages, if it gets finished and works well). The obscene fees charged by ebay are reason enough.

It's hard to tell if you actually believe what you're saying or if you're just attempting to limit your liability. I certainly can't fault you for that.

But stealth addressing alone is plenty sufficient for the issues you describe: protecting your privacy from your "neighbor". However, it's not our neighbors we're concerned about. It's our brothers.

Obvious most discussion and information exchange about operating serious Dark Markets is private.
But what can be offered as "proof" or source:

See related discussions on http://thehub7dnl5nmcz5.onion (biggest and most influential public forum for DM operators, security auditors, pro vendors etc.)

deepdotweb.com is biggest dark market news outlet (most readers) and run by well known core dark market community members, it has 7 articles that recognize, introduce or rate Monero (i think 4 of 7 are very positve, 2 only good, 1 neutral, no negative writings about Monero there, but they clearly critize other bad anon coins and proposals), also only positive statements about Monero in the active comments sections,which are also influencing the readers)

There are a some general well known cryptocurrency experts, which have a very big pull and big influential in the security related decisions in the DM scene, these are Gregory Maxwell, Adam Beck and Krytopher Atlas, who all reviewed Monero and gave positives statements (non related to darkmarkets) about the project/implementation/goals.

Then there is a small number of only the DarkMarket scene known widely influential experts, mostly people, who do security audits and DarkMarket software and technology since years, for example Gwern  (gwern.net) and mdparity (Black Bank dev and operation & other DM software dev work, e.g. multisig escrow tools for sites and vendors) with had gave positives statements about CryptoNote in general and Monero in special. (I wont search URLs now, there is e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8238133 where discussed problems in bytecoin, but see none in Monero, i just dont have the time for this, as you know most public darkmarket/TOR related content isnt indexed by google (classic robots.txt: disallow *)
- i dont make this up, you can and will find these postings/statement on public sources "The Hub Forums", https://reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/, /r/themarketplace, other DarkMarket related sub-reddits or other related subreddits /r/crypto, /r/onions)

- Gwern can easily be asked about his opinion about Moneros pontential DM use, he has an board account:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/gwern-4750

- i can personally vouch for one well known german dev, operator and (part-) owner of multiple big DM projects (currently owning 100% of one of the 10 biggest DMs and having a 25% stake in two of the 10 biggest DMs), that i happen to know from old hacking-related meetups in the 90ties, that when ready and reasonable, he will be rolling out XMR support on his markets, because he is an Monero-supporter and CN-believer

You would need some knowledge and background about Dark Market scene to understand who is influential and important. You would have to read alot of clearnet or TOR-only related information sources to get the full overview what the important people think or belive in (very distributed, many general subreddits, every DM has its own webboard or subreddit), where important people like the site admins, well known auditors (see above) or big vendors post about their opinions.

I give u some more, I cant talk public about in chat.

To clearify:
Monero and any other coin will only be added at an big, leading darkmarkets, if it really adds real world, really demanded benefits to the DarkMarkets special ecosystem and its operating security, while staying easyly enough to use.
If this hard work can be done and Monero reaches an status, where its by experts and user community considered to best coin for DarkMarket usage:
then from my POV, it can be said for 100% Monero won't fail because, 50% of the big DM admins stay with bitcoin and 50% support Darkcoin or whatever, and so it cant reach the needed network effects and volumina to stay vivid and relevant in DM trade,
which endangerous the whole project, by also cutting 99% of the chances to become the leading privacy coin for legal usage. (because leading DM coin will be the same coin, as the leading one in the "legal usage" sector)

I would like to add this:

Respectfully disagree. The Bitcoin blockchain is set up to easily allow someone who knows any addresses belonging to you to see who has given you money and where you are sending it. This is unacceptable from a privacy standpoint -- you would never accept a bank publishing all your transactions out in the clear. This is precisely why Monero exists, to be actual virtual cash.

And, in any case, if you believe that there is a 100% foolproof system for payments that you can use to break any law you'd like to that exists online... well, I would say you'll probably find out soon enough that that's a bad idea the hard way.

"They" could shut it down temporarily, but if I understood fluffypony correctly when I met him in person, he does not believe that a project such as Monero could ever be completely stopped.  I believe he said: "Information wants to be free."  (I hope I quoted him verbatim)

And to continue, paraphrasing his thoughts on the subject, as spoken to me when I asked him questions that prompted the discussion:

Now that the project has gained some recognition and the source code and related resources are in the public domain, even if all the core developers, by whatever means and for whatever reasons, were to cease development on the project, some other individuals would continue it where it left off. He even mentioned the Streisand Effect it might have, if an agent or organization of a nation-state were to attempt to intimidate, kill, maim, or otherwise stop him and/or other developers from continuing their work on the Monero Project.