Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 432. (Read 4671575 times)
January 29, 2017, 07:46:41 AM
Aminorex last posted in September.
January 29, 2017, 03:15:06 AM
Found this pic on the Monero subreddit....
Nice, but why is gold only partially fungible? I think any element is 100% fungible correct?
Good question.
Here in the real world, gold is only semi-fungible because:
A. Bullion contains a fingerprint of radioisotopes and trace minerals that betrays its origin. No bullion is 100% pure. And 100% purity would function as an identifying characteristic.
B. Larger bars often have a serial number.
C. The possibility of/propensity for whitelisting is non-trivial, because there is a movement akin to the "ZOMG Blood Diamonds" social justice bullshit which seeks to curtail the market's supply of non-kosher "conflict minerals."
D. The particular form factor of gold bullion is not trivially alterable and alterations (IE smelting/refining/repouring) incur thermodynamic and transactional/economic friction. Even in nature, gold nuggets are unique.
Perhaps the best illustration of this is when you try to sell 1oz of gold to your local coin store, and the price depends on whether that 1oz is in the form of an American Gold Eagle, Panda, Maple/Brit/Philly, generic round, shot, or 14k jewelery.
In contrast, the price of 1 XMR is always the same whether it was mined by a Chinese botnet and previously used to pay Hillary's friends in ISIS or freshly mined by Fluffypony and never previously transferred, because there's no way to tell the difference.
I had no clue about all that shit but also can't see anyone testing a troy ounce ingot for any of that crap either, just purity.
Your local coin store doesn't need to test to see whether its an Eagle, Maple, Philly, generic, or shot. They just have to look at it.
The diamond guys also thought the "conflict mineral" stuff would never affect their fungibility. Not sure how that worked out for them.
Anyone know more about that? Aminorex? Fluffy? Bueller? Anyone?
January 29, 2017, 01:50:32 AM
Found this pic on the Monero subreddit....
Nice, but why is gold only partially fungible? I think any element is 100% fungible correct?
Good question.
Here in the real world, gold is only semi-fungible because:
A. Bullion contains a fingerprint of radioisotopes and trace minerals that betrays its origin. No bullion is 100% pure. And 100% purity would function as an identifying characteristic.
B. Larger bars often have a serial number.
C. The possibility of/propensity for whitelisting is non-trivial, because there is a movement akin to the "ZOMG Blood Diamonds" social justice bullshit which seeks to curtail the market's supply of non-kosher "conflict minerals."
D. The particular form factor of gold bullion is not trivially alterable and alterations (IE smelting/refining/repouring) incur thermodynamic and transactional/economic friction. Even in nature, gold nuggets are unique.
Perhaps the best illustration of this is when you try to sell 1oz of gold to your local coin store, and the price depends on whether that 1oz is in the form of an American Gold Eagle, Panda, Maple/Brit/Philly, generic round, shot, or 14k jewelery.
In contrast, the price of 1 XMR is always the same whether it was mined by a Chinese botnet and previously used to pay Hillary's friends in ISIS or freshly mined by Fluffypony and never previously transferred, because there's no way to tell the difference.
I had no clue about all that shit but also can't see anyone testing a troy ounce ingot for any of that crap either, just purity.
January 29, 2017, 01:16:58 AM
Found this pic on the Monero subreddit....
Nice, but why is gold only partially fungible? I think any element is 100% fungible correct?
Good question.
Here in the real world, gold is only semi-fungible because:
A. Bullion contains a fingerprint of radioisotopes and trace minerals that betrays its origin. No bullion is 100% pure. And 100% purity would function as an identifying characteristic.
B. Larger bars often have a serial number.
C. The possibility of/propensity for whitelisting is non-trivial, because there is a movement akin to the "ZOMG Blood Diamonds" social justice bullshit which seeks to curtail the market's supply of non-kosher "conflict minerals."
D. The particular form factor of gold bullion is not trivially alterable and alterations (IE smelting/refining/repouring) incur thermodynamic and transactional/economic friction. Even in nature, gold nuggets are unique.
Perhaps the best illustration of this is when you try to sell 1oz of gold to your local coin store, and the price depends on whether that 1oz is in the form of an American Gold Eagle, Panda, Maple/Brit/Philly, generic round, shot, or 14k jewelery.
In contrast, the price of 1 XMR is always the same whether it was mined by a Chinese botnet and previously used to pay Hillary's friends in ISIS or freshly mined by Fluffypony and never previously transferred, because there's no way to tell the difference.
January 29, 2017, 12:11:22 AM
Found this pic on the Monero subreddit....
Nice, but why is gold only partially fungible? I think any element is 100% fungible correct?
January 28, 2017, 09:12:51 PM
Found this pic on the Monero subreddit.
https://en.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/5qpnh4/found_this_pic_on_the_bitcoin_subreddit_fixed_it/
It's really good. A few more improvements will completely fix it.
1. Replace Transportable with (or add) a Digital category for BTC, XMR, and fiat. Only giant stone Yap coins are not transportable, so it's moot.
1a. If leaving Transportable in, at least make the dollar faded (or cut the pic in half) to indicate the issues with moving non-trivial quantities of them.
2. Add Silver, indicate it is not Non-consumable (most is used for industry and not recovered).
3. Gold and Silver are fairly Divisible, more or less. Bengals in South Asia, plus many denominations of gold coins throughout history. Pieces of eight were like the Age of Exploration's Valcambi bars.
4. Instead of (or in addition to) using the subtle faded icons for a weak property, cut the icons in half. It's much easier to notice and intuitive for a semi-held property.
5. Change the shell pic to Nassarius gibbosulus and indicate monetized shells are both Scarce and Fungible.
Per the long-awaited sequel to the classic Shelling Out essay,
I want to try out the GUI, so the first three people to remake the image (.png please; we are not savages) with the above improvements gets 1 shiny new Monero.
Best version (my choice) gets a 1 XMR bonus.
https://en.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/5qpnh4/found_this_pic_on_the_bitcoin_subreddit_fixed_it/
It's really good. A few more improvements will completely fix it.
1. Replace Transportable with (or add) a Digital category for BTC, XMR, and fiat. Only giant stone Yap coins are not transportable, so it's moot.
1a. If leaving Transportable in, at least make the dollar faded (or cut the pic in half) to indicate the issues with moving non-trivial quantities of them.
2. Add Silver, indicate it is not Non-consumable (most is used for industry and not recovered).
3. Gold and Silver are fairly Divisible, more or less. Bengals in South Asia, plus many denominations of gold coins throughout history. Pieces of eight were like the Age of Exploration's Valcambi bars.
4. Instead of (or in addition to) using the subtle faded icons for a weak property, cut the icons in half. It's much easier to notice and intuitive for a semi-held property.
5. Change the shell pic to Nassarius gibbosulus and indicate monetized shells are both Scarce and Fungible.
Per the long-awaited sequel to the classic Shelling Out essay,
Quote from: Nick Szabo
I want to try out the GUI, so the first three people to remake the image (.png please; we are not savages) with the above improvements gets 1 shiny new Monero.
Best version (my choice) gets a 1 XMR bonus.
January 28, 2017, 07:52:06 PM
Of course I keep my HD seed hidden in a tattoo on my scalp!
January 28, 2017, 05:40:38 PM
The final checksum word is also a repetition of one of the other 24 words. If you could figure out a nice strong way to mark one of the tiles you would know which word to repeat at the end.
Perhaps fingernail polish? A sharpie pen? An engraving tool?
Perhaps fingernail polish? A sharpie pen? An engraving tool?
Looks like the Cryptosteel will let you insert the letters of the checksum word upside down. If so, no permanent modification is necessary.
Of course I keep my HD seed hidden in a tattoo on my scalp!
January 28, 2017, 04:38:45 PM
Not sounding good, sorry... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.17256617
In other words, delete c:\programdata\bitmonero and resync the chain?
January 28, 2017, 02:28:42 PM
January 28, 2017, 01:06:09 PM
Let me apologize in advance for my n00b question here... beta GUI wallet has a December'ish date. If I use the monerod in the XMR beta gui I'm okay with the RingCT fork? Don't feel like downloading that for a week to find out I ended up on the wrong fork. I have the back end LMDB over nfs so it's going to take me a while...
No problem, and yep, you're good.
January 28, 2017, 12:37:40 PM
Let me apologize in advance for my n00b question here... beta GUI wallet has a December'ish date. If I use the monerod in the XMR beta gui I'm okay with the RingCT fork? Don't feel like downloading that for a week to find out I ended up on the wrong fork. I have the back end LMDB over nfs so it's going to take me a while...
January 28, 2017, 11:44:49 AM
And who knows in some future client. Id feel safer knowing the real phrase.
January 28, 2017, 09:30:38 AM
Thinking about getting a Cryptosteel (anyone experience using it?).
When you backup your seed, there is only space for the first four letters per word. Is the below quoted text applicable to Monero as well?
When you backup your seed, there is only space for the first four letters per word. Is the below quoted text applicable to Monero as well?
Quote
you only need to assemble the first 4 letters of each word. Those 4 letters are unique and sufficient to recover the sentence and the entire bitcoin wallet. We did a frequency analysis and determined the minimum set of letters that are needed [is four]
You only need the first 3 letters of each word to restore the Monero seed, so there is more than enough space on a Cryptosteel.
I think for Monero using English you only need the first three letters, but for other languages I believe you may need the first four.
January 28, 2017, 04:05:41 AM
Thinking about getting a Cryptosteel (anyone experience using it?).
When you backup your seed, there is only space for the first four letters per word. Is the below quoted text applicable to Monero as well?
When you backup your seed, there is only space for the first four letters per word. Is the below quoted text applicable to Monero as well?
Quote
you only need to assemble the first 4 letters of each word. Those 4 letters are unique and sufficient to recover the sentence and the entire bitcoin wallet. We did a frequency analysis and determined the minimum set of letters that are needed [is four]
You only need the first 3 letters of each word to restore the Monero seed, so there is more than enough space on a Cryptosteel.
That is worth knowing - I liked it until I realised it didn't have enough space for the full seed. I ended up buying steel plates and letter punches, but I haven't got around to doing it - it's a lot of hassle.
I will look again at the Cryptosteel.
January 27, 2017, 10:24:17 PM
Thinking about getting a Cryptosteel (anyone experience using it?).
When you backup your seed, there is only space for the first four letters per word. Is the below quoted text applicable to Monero as well?
When you backup your seed, there is only space for the first four letters per word. Is the below quoted text applicable to Monero as well?
Quote
you only need to assemble the first 4 letters of each word. Those 4 letters are unique and sufficient to recover the sentence and the entire bitcoin wallet. We did a frequency analysis and determined the minimum set of letters that are needed [is four]
You only need the first 3 letters of each word to restore the Monero seed, so there is more than enough space on a Cryptosteel.
January 27, 2017, 04:13:50 PM
The final checksum word is also a repetition of one of the other 24 words. If you could figure out a nice strong way to mark one of the tiles you would know which word to repeat at the end.
Perhaps fingernail polish? A sharpie pen? An engraving tool?
Perhaps fingernail polish? A sharpie pen? An engraving tool?
just use a metal punch, whack the 1st char of that word.
January 27, 2017, 04:10:06 PM
The last Monero word is a checksum, so if you know the first 24 you can easily calculate the last one. It might even work if you just try to import a 24 word seed, I'm not sure.
That is great news!
Just tried. Unfortunately the last checksum word is mandatory in the CLI wallet. The goods news it is one of the 24 words
And indeed it is an 'Electrum' seed.
Code:
monero-wallet-cli --restore-deterministic-wallet
Specify Electrum seed: 24 words entered and skipped the last checksum word
Error: Electrum-style word list failed verification
January 27, 2017, 03:54:42 PM
The final checksum word is also a repetition of one of the other 24 words. If you could figure out a nice strong way to mark one of the tiles you would know which word to repeat at the end.
Perhaps fingernail polish? A sharpie pen? An engraving tool?
Perhaps fingernail polish? A sharpie pen? An engraving tool?
January 27, 2017, 03:40:21 PM
The last Monero word is a checksum, so if you know the first 24 you can easily calculate the last one. It might even work if you just try to import a 24 word seed, I'm not sure.
Edit: maybe not easily, but you can see the code for it here:
https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/src/mnemonics/electrum-words.cpp
Edit: maybe not easily, but you can see the code for it here:
https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/src/mnemonics/electrum-words.cpp
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