[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 986.

Globb0

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 2053

Free spirit

Quote from: 5w00p on April 10, 2015, 12:04:01 PM

Quote from: razen489 on April 10, 2015, 11:59:12 AM

Monero Price rises again after a sharp fall down to 0.003 BTC

Cool.

What is interesting to me is that, due to BTC fluctuations, XMR has been sitting at $0.82 USD for several days now.
https://moneropric.es/

Cool, is there a chart of the calculated price over time?

Vandalay23

sr. member

Activity: 341

Merit: 250

Quote from: Vandalay23 on April 09, 2015, 09:52:37 AM

Quote from: oblox on April 09, 2015, 09:33:03 AM

Quote from: Vandalay23 on April 09, 2015, 09:09:17 AM

Quote from: oblox on April 08, 2015, 11:01:47 AM

Quote from: Vandalay23 on April 08, 2015, 10:51:41 AM

Quote from: GingerAle on April 08, 2015, 10:36:16 AM

Quote from: Vandalay23 on April 08, 2015, 10:32:13 AM

Quote from: oblox on April 08, 2015, 10:10:42 AM

Quote from: Vandalay23 on April 08, 2015, 10:03:58 AM

Hey Monero Community !!

Can anyone please guide me on how to create a custom Monero burn address, or generally in the Cryptonote protocol?

Will appreciate your kind help.

Create a wallet in a live environment in ram with a super long password (100+ characters) and don't write down it or the seed. Send your coins to the address. Why do you want to burn your coins?

Yeah, I guess I wasn't specific enough.
I'm looking for a way to create a provably unspendable burn address.
Meaning it should be obvious, for example contain a lot of consecutive X's.

keep generating wallets until you get one with a lot of x's.

this vanity address generator exists

https://monerotalk.org/t/vanity-address-generator/134

https://github.com/ehmry/monero-vanity

so you'll essentially publish the viewkey?

The idea is that nobody will have the private key so nobody will have the possibility to spend the funds.

I want to generate an address, to which it's highly improbable anyone will have the private key.

EDIT: Counterparty created such a BTC address back in the days of their launch

Couldn't you still take the same advice I gave but then take whatever address was given and replace the first 10-15 characters with something along the lines of "xxxxxmoneroxxxxx", then again, the viewkey would no longer work so you wouldn't be able to view it anyway. Interesting.

Will this address be valid? will it be possible to send coins to this address? will it be checksum approved?

Even if it did work, it wouldn't serve the purpose because without a viewkey, you can't prove what the address holds. And since the viewkey is derived from the private key, you won't have a valid viewkey.

I think the best course of action would be to somehow provably create a wallet address without ever retaining the files, seed words, and password. Then you'd still have a view key to see the balance but coins could never be spent. Not sure how you overcome the "trust factor".

The idea I thought of is to create 2 addresses, one normally generated address with public viewkey and the other one a burn address without viewkey at all as no one as access to it.
Burn process can be done in 2 steps: send the coins to first wallet and from this one to the burn address.
That way the transactions are visible to the public but no one has access to the receiving address.

Now, I'm not familiar with the Cryptonote checksum rules
Can anyone create an address with as many X's as possible and a valid checksum??

Bumping this one.
will pay 0.05 btc to the one who can create this address.

aminorex

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1030

Sine secretum non libertas

just in case its not obvious to anyone (unlikely): dropping a symmetry requirement, the fiduciary and the escrow agent would typically be the same

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Hueristic on April 10, 2015, 11:50:58 PM

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 11:33:22 PM

Quote from: Hueristic on April 10, 2015, 11:26:31 PM

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 11:10:26 PM

Quote from: aminorex on April 10, 2015, 10:46:12 PM

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 03:48:01 PM

In that case only both parties together would be able to retrieve the funds.

Better way is with secret sharing. Same result as multisig, without the need of multisig.

Yes I interpreted the original "part of the seed" that way. If you just mechanically split a 128 bit seed in half without secret sharing it isn't very secure.

That would be for you guys to decide on, I am not a cryptographer. That's why I intentionally left that portion vague. I'm trying to flesh out the idea, however/if ever you guys use it that is up to you. I'm pretty sure this team of Devs could kick something like this out pretty quickly.

Unless I'm missing something it should be trivial? If not what would be the issue? Certainly not the choice of encryption right?

There are ways of generating a shared secret without a central party knowing the secret, but they are complicated. The case where MyMonero simply knows the secret and gives out shares to the parties is easy, but is also incompatible with the usual (and important) premise of MyMonero never knowing the spend key.

Understood but I am assuming this would be a burn address and without a trusted party for arbitrator how can you stop extortion of release?

Secret sharing can do all the usual multisig-ish things like having 2/3, 3/5 and so forth. So you could divide the secret between two parties and an arbitrator (2/3) for example. The hard part is still the setup though.

Hueristic

legendary

Activity: 3836

Merit: 4969

Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 11:33:22 PM

Quote from: Hueristic on April 10, 2015, 11:26:31 PM

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 11:10:26 PM

Quote from: aminorex on April 10, 2015, 10:46:12 PM

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 03:48:01 PM

In that case only both parties together would be able to retrieve the funds.

Better way is with secret sharing. Same result as multisig, without the need of multisig.

Yes I interpreted the original "part of the seed" that way. If you just mechanically split a 128 bit seed in half without secret sharing it isn't very secure.

That would be for you guys to decide on, I am not a cryptographer. That's why I intentionally left that portion vague. I'm trying to flesh out the idea, however/if ever you guys use it that is up to you. I'm pretty sure this team of Devs could kick something like this out pretty quickly.

Unless I'm missing something it should be trivial? If not what would be the issue? Certainly not the choice of encryption right?

There are ways of generating a shared secret without a central party knowing the secret, but they are complicated. The case where MyMonero simply knows the secret and gives out shares to the parties is easy, but is also incompatible with the usual (and important) premise of MyMonero never knowing the spend key.

Understood but I am assuming this would be a burn address and without a trusted party for arbitrator how can you stop extortion of release?

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Hueristic on April 10, 2015, 11:26:31 PM

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 11:10:26 PM

Quote from: aminorex on April 10, 2015, 10:46:12 PM

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 03:48:01 PM

In that case only both parties together would be able to retrieve the funds.

Better way is with secret sharing. Same result as multisig, without the need of multisig.

Yes I interpreted the original "part of the seed" that way. If you just mechanically split a 128 bit seed in half without secret sharing it isn't very secure.

That would be for you guys to decide on, I am not a cryptographer. That's why I intentionally left that portion vague. I'm trying to flesh out the idea, however/if ever you guys use it that is up to you. I'm pretty sure this team of Devs could kick something like this out pretty quickly.

Unless I'm missing something it should be trivial? If not what would be the issue? Certainly not the choice of encryption right?

There are ways of generating a shared secret without a central party knowing the secret, but they are complicated. The case where MyMonero simply knows the secret and gives out shares to the parties is easy, but is also incompatible with the usual (and important) premise of MyMonero never knowing the spend key.

Hueristic

legendary

Activity: 3836

Merit: 4969

Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 11:10:26 PM

Quote from: aminorex on April 10, 2015, 10:46:12 PM

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 03:48:01 PM

In that case only both parties together would be able to retrieve the funds.

Better way is with secret sharing. Same result as multisig, without the need of multisig.

Yes I interpreted the original "part of the seed" that way. If you just mechanically split a 128 bit seed in half without secret sharing it isn't very secure.

That would be for you guys to decide on, I am not a cryptographer. That's why I intentionally left that portion vague. I'm trying to flesh out the idea, however/if ever you guys use it that is up to you. I'm pretty sure this team of Devs could kick something like this out pretty quickly.

Unless I'm missing something it should be trivial? If not what would be the issue? Certainly not the choice of encryption right?

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: aminorex on April 10, 2015, 10:46:12 PM

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 03:48:01 PM

In that case only both parties together would be able to retrieve the funds.

Better way is with secret sharing. Same result as multisig, without the need of multisig.

Yes I interpreted the original "part of the seed" that way. If you just mechanically split a 128 bit seed in half without secret sharing it isn't very secure.

aminorex

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1030

Sine secretum non libertas

Quote from: Anon136 on April 10, 2015, 10:53:47 PM

Quote from: aminorex on April 10, 2015, 10:46:12 PM

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 03:48:01 PM

In that case only both parties together would be able to retrieve the funds.

Better way is with secret sharing. Same result as multisig, without the need of multisig.

Sure you could use secret sharing to cooperatively develop a seed but how would you derive a view key pair or public spend key without either party knowing the seed and without also developing a private spend key in the process?

Simplest hack is to require a trusted third party to emit the secrets, distribute the shares.　　I know that is déclassé but it works, no code to write except to implement the automated bank, which is not a complicated script. (Finding a fiduciary with suitable infrastructure and standing, willing to host, is a bit dicey.)

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: aminorex on April 10, 2015, 10:46:12 PM

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 03:48:01 PM

In that case only both parties together would be able to retrieve the funds.

Better way is with secret sharing. Same result as multisig, without the need of multisig.

Sure you could use secret sharing to cooperatively develop a seed but how would you derive a view key pair or public spend key without either party knowing the seed and without also developing a private spend key in the process?

saddambitcoin

legendary

Activity: 1610

Merit: 1004

Quote from: Anon136 on April 10, 2015, 09:09:08 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Didn't you wanted mainstream?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/326ba2/someone_is_poking_around_at_my_coins/

Bitcoin wasn't made for mainstream.

[coinbase kyc]

It's like the twilight zone.

I don't think I will be using coinbase any longer. Next time I want to buy bitcoin ill just reach out to the community on the forums here and leverage my impeccable reputation.

try localbitcoins for traders in your area. Or there might even be a bitcoin ATM, I noticed there are several in my location now. ATMs make it very easy to purchase anonymously. You do end up paying a premium for these coins but it can be nice sometimes for the convenience of not having to meet up with a stranger and hope everything goes well Cool

aminorex

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1030

Sine secretum non libertas

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 03:48:01 PM

In that case only both parties together would be able to retrieve the funds.

Better way is with secret sharing. Same result as multisig, without the need of multisig.

boomboom

hero member

Activity: 1068

Merit: 523

Quote from: Anon136 on April 10, 2015, 09:09:08 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Didn't you wanted mainstream?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/326ba2/someone_is_poking_around_at_my_coins/

Bitcoin wasn't made for mainstream.

Quote

Describe the primary use for your coinbase account
Describe the source of your incoming bitcoin transactions
Indicate the source of your income for bitcoin purchases
What's the nature of your outgoing transfers and what services are they related to
...
Please know that we take privacy ... very seriously.

It's like the twilight zone.

I don't think I will be using coinbase any longer. Next time I want to buy bitcoin ill just reach out to the community on the forums here and leverage my impeccable reputation.

That's crap, can't wait for decentralised exchanges!

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: ?? on ??

Didn't you wanted mainstream?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/326ba2/someone_is_poking_around_at_my_coins/

Bitcoin wasn't made for mainstream.

Quote

Describe the primary use for your coinbase account
Describe the source of your incoming bitcoin transactions
Indicate the source of your income for bitcoin purchases
What's the nature of your outgoing transfers and what services are they related to
...
Please know that we take privacy ... very seriously.

It's like the twilight zone.

I don't think I will be using coinbase any longer. Next time I want to buy bitcoin ill just reach out to the community on the forums here and leverage my impeccable reputation.

opennux

full member

Activity: 231

Merit: 100

Quote from: smooth on April 09, 2015, 03:58:35 PM

Quote from: Ullo on April 09, 2015, 01:37:13 PM

There's no need spreading fud in the roadmap thread.

Calling out lying scammers for who and what they are not "fud", it is the duty of any person of integrity. Something you would know nothing about.

Quote: "If you see fraud and don't shout fraud, you are a fraud"
-- Nassim Taleb (author or Black Swan and Anti-fragility; credit to opennux for the quote).

I'll give you a few more, and they are readily applicable in the space:

Quote from: Nassim Taleb

Most people are sceptical about the wrong things and gullible about the wrong things.

If you take risks and face your fate with dignity, there is nothing you can do that makes you small; if you don't take risks, there is nothing you can do that makes you grand, nothing.

You will get the most attention from those who hate you. No friend, no admirer and no partner will flatter you with as much curiosity.

Success is about honour, feeling morally calibrated, absence of shame, not what some newspaper defines from an external metric.

Economics make homeopath and alternative healers look empirical and scientific.

Arux

hero member

Activity: 500

Merit: 500

Quote from: osensei on April 10, 2015, 05:25:34 PM

I want to say that I never meant anything in a negative way about MyMonero. I was just stating the things as I saw them. I believe MyMonero is very well done and provides a great service, and I never doubted that the seed/keys implementation would eventually come out

. It's just that if I were to use MyMonero I would like to be sure that I can always access my funds, regardless of the availability of the service.

in my case i like mymonero because i'm sure i can always access my funds regardless of the availability of my full node Grin

mymonero is definitively a trump card!

fluffypony

donator

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1060

GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com

Quote from: Arux on April 10, 2015, 05:08:05 PM

@fluffypony: is there a security flaw when using a simplewallet seed (25 words) to log in mymonero? is it recommended?

No, it's just easier to memorise / store 13 words (and the reduction in key space is somewhat negligible).

Just remember that MyMonero is a convenience service where you're giving out your view key and you accept the fact that it physically cannot be as secure as a full wallet on a full node.

osensei

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

https://monerohash.com

Quote from: fluffypony on April 10, 2015, 04:21:46 PM

https://github.com/warptangent/bitmonero/commit/35b1500536a98e02ea459ca6ccb42e8248de43a8
^^^
There is the code to restore a MyMonero wallet to simplewallet. Finding the right way to add it to master is the trick (as the derivation is a bit different to simplewallet) - do we stick to the current long-mnemonic derivation, and then use the MM derivation for short-mnemonics? Or do we provide a short version of the current long-mnemonic derivation, plus an extra short derivation for MyMonero-style keys?

Until we figure out the most appropriate way to integrate this it'll sit in this commit, but it can ALWAYS be integrated and released by any number of the 25 Monero core contributors in the event of MyMonero's sudden and unexpected demise:)

Good to know that

I want to say that I never meant anything in a negative way about MyMonero. I was just stating the things as I saw them. I believe MyMonero is very well done and provides a great service, and I never doubted that the seed/keys implementation would eventually come out

. It's just that if I were to use MyMonero I would like to be sure that I can always access my funds, regardless of the availability of the service.

Arux

hero member

Activity: 500

Merit: 500

@fluffypony: is there a security flaw when using a simplewallet seed (25 words) to log in mymonero? is it recommended?

Hueristic

legendary

Activity: 3836

Merit: 4969

Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

Quote from: fluffypony on April 10, 2015, 04:21:46 PM

Quote from: smooth on April 10, 2015, 03:31:51 PM

Quote from: Hueristic on April 10, 2015, 03:28:50 PM

AND this here is the Crux on my question. MyMonero can Lock or remove access to those funds that were created with the key on their site. Now while some may think this is compromising of a trust-less system (it is) By generating a Key with the simple wallet first will bypass this as you guys have affirmed.

So now that this has all been fleshed out in my mind, here is my thought.
MyMonero can be used as an Escrow system where the Funds can be locked. Correct?

Create a wallet and a second login user for depositor (Site would have to guarantee wallet was created through site).

No because the code to restore a MyMonero wallet elsewhere first of all rather trivial and second of all already implemented in some github branch somewhere (just not merged to master yet)

So it would be quite insecure to rely on not being able to access those funds.

https://github.com/warptangent/bitmonero/commit/35b1500536a98e02ea459ca6ccb42e8248de43a8
^^^
There is the code to restore a MyMonero wallet to simplewallet. Finding the right way to add it to master is the trick (as the derivation is a bit different to simplewallet) - do we stick to the current long-mnemonic derivation, and then use the MM derivation for short-mnemonics? Or do we provide a short version of the current long-mnemonic derivation, plus an extra short derivation for MyMonero-style keys?

Until we figure out the most appropriate way to integrate this it'll sit in this commit, but it can ALWAYS be integrated and released by any number of the 25 Monero core contributors in the event of MyMonero's sudden and unexpected demise:)

I don't think anyone is concerned about losing their mymonero wallet. My interest as I pointed out was how to add a escrow to the site with minimal effort. I thought I had seen a way until smooth pointed this out. I still believe it should be pretty easily accomplished. Wouldn't you want to receive escrows without having to be personally involved unless there was an issue?

Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 986. (Read 4671924 times)