[XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1485.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on March 08, 2016, 06:15:02 AM

a core GUI is not a compelling enough reason for regular people to start using a currency

Lack of an Official GUI is a barrier to entry for some people and businesses that would otherwise use Monero.

The "compelling" will be done by bank runs and other extreme forms of capital control.

Johnny Mnemonic

hero member

Activity: 795

Merit: 514

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on March 08, 2016, 03:33:11 AM

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on March 08, 2016, 03:20:15 AM

Only crypto-anarchists and privacy activists give a shit about smart mining and decentralization. None of that appeals to a wider audience, who just want an easy way to spend their money (not hosting a full node). Do you really think regular people are concerned with those features?

20 years ago, only "crypto-anarchists and privacy activists" actually gave a shit about securing personal data with encryption.

Then some celeb i-pads got hacked, Snowden won an Oscar, and the .gov demanded Apple destroy their own products' utility.

Yet the overwhelming majority continue to use gmail and facebook. Privacy to the average person is only important as long as it's equally convenient. Unfortunately, a core GUI is not a compelling enough reason for regular people to start using a currency.

Quote from: kurious on March 08, 2016, 04:06:45 AM

Using command line for many people - such as anyone non tech-savvy or, say on a Mac - is a totally foreign and too-much-to-ask chore. Some people (including me) don't like holding a lot on an exchange or in an online wallet either. For someone who can’t get their head around using command line to make a wallet etc. (and don’t say it’s ‘so easy’ – it isn’t) it makes the project look under-developed, which is not a good reflection on how Monero is.

I agree. However, you and the few other enthusiasts who want to run their own node will not mark a significant increase in adoption.

Quote from: kurious on March 08, 2016, 04:06:45 AM

Yes, a killer payment app or a next generation improvement on a node /QT type wallet would be better to have, but I think not having a GUI is ammo for detractors and an excuse to leave Monero alone for many people.

I agree, and I stated that the only real benefit at this point of a core GUI is to eliminate any last remaining "troll ammo."

Quote from: kurious on March 08, 2016, 04:06:45 AM

‘Why no wallet?’ is a fair ask.

No, it's not. We have several wallets. I don't think one more will make a difference. I hope I'm wrong.

persiancat

newbie

Activity: 33

Merit: 0

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on March 08, 2016, 03:33:11 AM

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on March 08, 2016, 03:20:15 AM

Only crypto-anarchists and privacy activists give a shit about smart mining and decentralization. None of that appeals to a wider audience, who just want an easy way to spend their money (not hosting a full node). Do you really think regular people are concerned with those features?

20 years ago, only "crypto-anarchists and privacy activists" actually gave a shit about securing personal data with encryption.

Then some celeb i-pads got hacked, Snowden won an Oscar, and the .gov demanded Apple destroy their own products' utility.

Anyway, here is some light reading on the history of digital cash in science fiction:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150510234837/http://garzikrants.blogspot.com/2013/06/shadowrun-and-bitcoins-roots.html

Note the credsticks are *not* being used to buy coffee.... Tongue

For XMR bookworms out there, you may want to read Cryptonomicon (by Neal Stephenson), an excellent 800-page-turner covering digital currencies, WW2 gold, *nix, true randomness, cryptology, and other fascinating topics.

I myself have read this book at least 8 times.

http://www.amazon.com/Cryptonomicon-Neal-Stephenson/dp/0060512806

I'm fairly sure some of you have already read this book.

rpietila

donator

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1036

Quote from: persiancat on March 08, 2016, 01:14:56 AM

A related question to the issue of centralization of hashing power is this : what is to prevent a coalition of determined, wealthy, well-equipped miners from accumulating the majority of hashing votes for any up-and-coming bitcoin alternatives in the future?

That's what the banksters have done with all the precious metals and later currencies.

With cryptos, the Economic Majority decides. If banksters corner some coin and enough people are pissed off, they just abandon that one and start a new coin.

kurious

legendary

Activity: 2604

Merit: 1748

I have to chip in on the GUI.

Using command line for many people - such as anyone non tech-savvy or, say on a Mac - is a totally foreign and too-much-to-ask chore. Some people (including me) don't like holding a lot on an exchange or in an online wallet either. For someone who can’t get their head around using command line to make a wallet etc. (and don’t say it’s ‘so easy’ – it isn’t) it makes the project look under-developed, which is not a good reflection on how Monero is.

Yes, a killer payment app or a next generation improvement on a node /QT type wallet would be better to have, but I think not having a GUI is ammo for detractors and an excuse to leave Monero alone for many people.

No, regular people don’t give a shit, true – but we are still competing in the crypto currency space with just a couple of exchanges supporting XMR. We don’t need to look like we don’t measure up in some way.

‘Why no wallet?’ is a fair ask. Once we have one, it I think it will take away some adoption resistance and be something that helps build the project’s base of long-term accumulators.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on March 08, 2016, 03:20:15 AM

Only crypto-anarchists and privacy activists give a shit about smart mining and decentralization. None of that appeals to a wider audience, who just want an easy way to spend their money (not hosting a full node). Do you really think regular people are concerned with those features?

20 years ago, only "crypto-anarchists and privacy activists" actually gave a shit about securing personal data with encryption.

Then some celeb i-pads got hacked, Snowden won an Oscar, and the .gov demanded Apple destroy their own products' utility.

Anyway, here is some light reading on the history of digital cash in science fiction:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150510234837/http://garzikrants.blogspot.com/2013/06/shadowrun-and-bitcoins-roots.html

Note the credsticks are *not* being used to buy coffee.... Tongue

Johnny Mnemonic

hero member

Activity: 795

Merit: 514

Quote from: cryptodromeda on March 07, 2016, 09:30:49 PM

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on March 07, 2016, 09:07:29 PM

A bundled GUI only increases accessibility to the few crypto-conscious individuals already in the space. Joe Blow doesn't have a good reason to run his own node, GUI or not. Making something easier doesn't automatically make anyone want or need it.

No it doesn't just do that. It is a decongestant that effectively lays the foundations for future expansion - both social and technical. It is clearing the decks and is level up - a significant milestone for Monero, not just in terms of service advancement but also in terms of demonstrable management and group industry.

It's a major achievement and a whole new chapter in Monero's future, and thus is a perfect modulator for market action which increases market volume and speculator interest, hence bringing increased vibrancy into the whole Monero ecosystem.

Nothing in this response explained how a core GUI would increase usage outside of the crypto niche.

Quote from: flagel8 on March 07, 2016, 10:06:52 PM

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on March 07, 2016, 09:07:29 PM

What's crazy is the idea that the average joe will want to run a node for some whiz-bang e-money just because he can... never mind the fact that he has no reason to.

A bundled GUI only increases accessibility to the few crypto-conscious individuals already in the space. Joe Blow doesn't have a good reason to run his own node, GUI or not. Making something easier doesn't automatically make anyone want or need it.

There are lots of things that can make XMR approachable to wider adoption. Mobile apps with easy messaging as an abstraction layer for payments, point-of-sale tools and services for in-person purchases, easier exchange services from/to fiat, etc. would all be greatly helpful.

But a core GUI won't increase adoption significantly, because average users won't be running their own nodes anyway.

Sure, I don't run a node for Btc, but that coin is several iterations past efficient CPU mining. But Monero, afaict, will be still CPU mineable, right? THAT's my motive for running a node. As someone else here pointed out, going through the hoops to mine Monero NOW is a "chore". But once the gui is out, if it has one-click smart mining, I'm there! Giving everyone a motive and an easy way to run a node is decentralization in action, as exciting in its way as fungibility and privacy!

Only crypto-anarchists and privacy activists give a shit about smart mining and decentralization. None of that appeals to a wider audience, who just want an easy way to spend their money (not hosting a full node). Do you really think regular people are concerned with those features?

persiancat

newbie

Activity: 33

Merit: 0

This could be a reason for BTC's minor selldown last week.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/2/11146584/bitcoin-core-classic-debate-transaction-limit-crisis

Another thing that this article confirms is that Chinese BTC miners already control >51% of worldwide hashing power. They can effectively influence the future direction of bitcoin development roadmap.

Seeing as to how they voted to continue mining with Bitcoin Core, perhaps they are worried about liquidity of their vast(?) bitcoin holdings should they wish to sell it one day (given that the vast majority of their mined coins come from the Classic fork).

A related question to the issue of centralization of hashing power is this : what is to prevent a coalition of determined, wealthy, well-equipped miners from accumulating the majority of hashing votes for any up-and-coming bitcoin alternatives in the future?

phishead

hero member

Activity: 1874

Merit: 840

Keep what's important, and know who's your friend

Quote from: ?? on ??

It seems absurd and at the same time exhilarating at the thought of monero surpassing bitcoin in the near future. It seems possible but not likely.

It depends on what you mean in terms of "surpassing" Bitcoin. Price wise will be difficult, because people tend to be hesitant to change... that's just a natural part of nature as well as human nature; law of inertia is no joke.

But if you are talking in terms of functionality and usability, we are half way there. There is certainly a learning curve, where people who are newer to crypto currencies, programming, etc. (like me) have a difficult time trying to figure out all there has to know about how to set up a node, mine, and so on to help the network; as well as securing your coins properly in cold storage.

Now in terms of functionality, it seems Monero has already surpassed the shit out of bitcoin... theoretically that is. Of course, we haven't seen as much transaction on our blockchain like what Bitcoin has; but to my mind, the unlimited capabilities of what dynamic block sizes allows users to do, as well as remaining completely anonymous while using a coin that will never "taint" in any way is completely revolutionary.

What I like about science and technology, is that it doesn't have an ego... unfortunately though, the people that use it and market it do.

GingerAle

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1008

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on March 07, 2016, 09:07:29 PM

Quote from: cryptodromeda on March 07, 2016, 07:29:29 PM

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on March 07, 2016, 07:11:51 PM

The "next level" of adoption comes from third-party integrations and services that actually bring utility to the currency. A bundled GUI doesn't deliver any compelling new use cases, and won't result in any new adoption outside of Bitcointalk users and their close relatives.

With all due respect, what you're saying is crazy.

Of course a bundled GUI will result in new adoption. You can't just assume that everyone knows how to use terminal.... they don't.

The userbase associated with a $1B marketcap is not the same userbase as a cabal of niche crypto-developers who take certain technological fundamentals for granted.

It should also be patently obvious that an easy-to-use GUI gives confidence to third-parties who may be mulling over integration.

What's crazy is the idea that the average joe will want to run a node for some whiz-bang e-money just because he can... never mind the fact that he has no reason to.

A bundled GUI only increases accessibility to the few crypto-conscious individuals already in the space. Joe Blow doesn't have a good reason to run his own node, GUI or not. Making something easier doesn't automatically make anyone want or need it.

There are lots of things that can make XMR approachable to wider adoption. Mobile apps with easy messaging as an abstraction layer for payments, point-of-sale tools and services for in-person purchases, easier exchange services from/to fiat, etc. would all be greatly helpful.

But a core GUI won't increase adoption significantly, because average users won't be running their own nodes anyway.

Quote from: smooth on March 07, 2016, 07:49:40 PM

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on March 07, 2016, 07:11:51 PM

The "next level" of adoption comes from third-party integrations and services that actually bring utility to the currency. A bundled GUI doesn't deliver any compelling new use cases, and won't result in any new adoption outside of Bitcointalk users and their close relatives.

What about the idea that poor ease-of-use serves as a deterrent to third party integrations and services?

I think that was the case 12 months ago, but not anymore. Besides, the lack of a GUI seems like it would be less of a deterrent to the third parties doing the integrations and more of a deterrent to the end users who care about running their own node yet somehow lack the knowledge to use the CLI.

I could be wrong of course. But when the GUI comes out and not much changes, I won't be surprised.

Yeah, I'm in this boat as well. There will probably be a mini spike. But it won't moonshot us. And I also agree that it won't add significantly to the network infrastructure due to the lack of PCs out there, hence my monerodo push. Ultimately I often struggle to see what "adoption" actually means beyond speculation and store of value. I'm a relatively simple man. I get paid, then I spend that money on bills and food. There's nothing really else that I *do* with my money. So until I get paid in bitcoin and the supermarket, gas station, and electric company take monero, I wouldn't even consider myself an adopter.

Now what does fascinate me is the prospect of using Monero, and the monero network, as the backend for other services. Cryptocurrencies are, after all, a unit of account.

newb4now

hero member

Activity: 686

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Quote from: TrueCryptonaire on March 07, 2016, 10:40:43 PM

Quote from: newb4now on March 07, 2016, 10:33:44 PM

Quote from: explorer on March 07, 2016, 10:19:26 PM

I also was waiting for the GUI and easy mining, having briefly tried and failed to set up in early 2014.

I am embarrassed to say that I actually was interested in DASH (in early 2014) before XMR partially because I thought it was more user friendly and could scale faster.

Now that I am better educated I understand why their "technology" will never work. There are probably a lot of people who thought like I did back then and will switch to XMR as it becomes more and more user friendly. An official GUI and a few high profile merchants integrating XMR will accelerate this process.

All of the btc merchants are also XMR merchants.

Most people reading this thread know that but the general public does not. I wish the world knew about xmr.to and shapeshift. Direct merchant acceptance will improve Monero visibility.

TrueCryptonaire

legendary

Activity: 1092

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Quote from: newb4now on March 07, 2016, 10:33:44 PM

Quote from: explorer on March 07, 2016, 10:19:26 PM

I also was waiting for the GUI and easy mining, having briefly tried and failed to set up in early 2014.

I am embarrassed to say that I actually was interested in DASH (in early 2014) before XMR partially because I thought it was more user friendly and could scale faster.

Now that I am better educated I understand why their "technology" will never work. There are probably a lot of people who thought like I did back then and will switch to XMR as it becomes more and more user friendly. An official GUI and a few high profile merchants integrating XMR will accelerate this process.

All of the btc merchants are also XMR merchants.

newb4now

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Quote from: explorer on March 07, 2016, 10:19:26 PM

I also was waiting for the GUI and easy mining, having briefly tried and failed to set up in early 2014.

I am embarrassed to say that I actually was interested in DASH (in early 2014) before XMR partially because I thought it was more user friendly and could scale faster.

Now that I am better educated I understand why their "technology" will never work. There are probably a lot of people who thought like I did back then and will switch to XMR as it becomes more and more user friendly. An official GUI and a few high profile merchants integrating XMR will accelerate this process.

explorer

legendary

Activity: 2016

Merit: 1259

Quote from: flagel8 on March 07, 2016, 10:06:52 PM

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on March 07, 2016, 09:07:29 PM

What's crazy is the idea that the average joe will want to run a node for some whiz-bang e-money just because he can... never mind the fact that he has no reason to.

A bundled GUI only increases accessibility to the few crypto-conscious individuals already in the space. Joe Blow doesn't have a good reason to run his own node, GUI or not. Making something easier doesn't automatically make anyone want or need it.

There are lots of things that can make XMR approachable to wider adoption. Mobile apps with easy messaging as an abstraction layer for payments, point-of-sale tools and services for in-person purchases, easier exchange services from/to fiat, etc. would all be greatly helpful.

But a core GUI won't increase adoption significantly, because average users won't be running their own nodes anyway.

Sure, I don't run a node for Btc, but that coin is several iterations past efficient CPU mining. But Monero, afaict, will be still CPU mineable, right? THAT's my motive for running a node. As someone else here pointed out, going through the hoops to mine Monero NOW is a "chore". But once the gui is out, if it has one-click smart mining, I'm there! Giving everyone a motive and an easy way to run a node is decentralization in action, as exciting in its way as fungibility and privacy!

I also was waiting for the GUI and easy mining, having briefly tried and failed to set up in early 2014. I just didn't choose to dedicate the time to it, expecting improvements to be more rapid (no complaints, my donations have been small, and my time and equipment lacking anyway) Today I started to sync the blockchain on windows64, and will give it another go when it eventually catches up. I don't expect much out of my laptop, but it is a good learning experience for when I finally get other resources online. The GUI is a long awaited exciting development, and will create positive buzz no matter when it is finally released.

TPTB_need_war

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 262

Quote from: lolikop on March 07, 2016, 08:01:40 PM

I just dont understand why Monero is still underpriced, it should be atleast 0.01 if not more

Because Monero has only been marketed to speculators who want to chase the quick money pumps. And Monero can't be pumped because it was mined too fairly.

Monero is slowly building its momentum as Bitcoin crumbles. I don't know if this strategy will pay off, but it may as open source tends to gobble up the failed projects. The chart relative to BTC is very bullish as showed in my prior post.

To accelerate Monero's path would afaics require a different tactic (e.g. building some killer app and marketing for user adoption) which afaics is antithetical to its open source modus operandi. And such a tactic may be an incorrect approach.

explorer

legendary

Activity: 2016

Merit: 1259

Quote from: ?? on ??

Is the GUI supposed to be out in 2016?

It is under active/funded development. Generally expected in the summer, but could be sooner or later.

flagel8

full member

Activity: 188

Merit: 100

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on March 07, 2016, 09:07:29 PM

What's crazy is the idea that the average joe will want to run a node for some whiz-bang e-money just because he can... never mind the fact that he has no reason to.

A bundled GUI only increases accessibility to the few crypto-conscious individuals already in the space. Joe Blow doesn't have a good reason to run his own node, GUI or not. Making something easier doesn't automatically make anyone want or need it.

There are lots of things that can make XMR approachable to wider adoption. Mobile apps with easy messaging as an abstraction layer for payments, point-of-sale tools and services for in-person purchases, easier exchange services from/to fiat, etc. would all be greatly helpful.

But a core GUI won't increase adoption significantly, because average users won't be running their own nodes anyway.

Sure, I don't run a node for Btc, but that coin is several iterations past efficient CPU mining. But Monero, afaict, will be still CPU mineable, right? THAT's my motive for running a node. As someone else here pointed out, going through the hoops to mine Monero NOW is a "chore". But once the gui is out, if it has one-click smart mining, I'm there! Giving everyone a motive and an easy way to run a node is decentralization in action, as exciting in its way as fungibility and privacy!

dnaleor

legendary

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Want privacy? Use Monero!

My trezor homescreen

If you want to have the same homescreen, use this file: http://imgur.com/du1U8oM

cryptodromeda

full member

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Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on March 07, 2016, 09:07:29 PM

A bundled GUI only increases accessibility to the few crypto-conscious individuals already in the space. Joe Blow doesn't have a good reason to run his own node, GUI or not. Making something easier doesn't automatically make anyone want or need it.

No it doesn't just do that. It is a decongestant that effectively lays the foundations for future expansion - both social and technical. It is clearing the decks and is level up - a significant milestone for Monero, not just in terms of service advancement but also in terms of demonstrable management and group industry.

It's a major achievement and a whole new chapter in Monero's future, and thus is a perfect modulator for market action which increases market volume and speculator interest, hence bringing increased vibrancy into the whole Monero ecosystem.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: meme magic on March 07, 2016, 09:26:01 PM

the focus on getting a gui completely integrated with core will be far more beneficial than the result of having a gui, imo.

as an end user ill be running a node, so long as the blockchain can be kept to a strict 20-50 gb in size

It won't be >20 GB for quite some time. The current blockchain is around 2-3 GB, and only growing by 1-2 GB per year. On disk it needs 8-12 GB depending on OS but there is some optimization work being done that will both reduce the size and improve the performance.

Obviously increased usage will make it grow faster but that is a good problem to have.

Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1485. (Read 3313576 times)