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Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1514. (Read 3313576 times)

hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
February 28, 2016, 04:56:42 PM

That's kind of a poor example, because they kind of did that 2 days ago already:

https://bitcoincore.org/en/2016/02/26/zero-knowledge-contingent-payments-announcement/

A better example would be Company A that has to hand over all their transactions (expenditures, income/revenue, and perhaps balances of certain accounts) to an auditing firm (or the IRS) for a certain fiscal year.

Note: I know the viewkey only shows incoming transactions, but it is possible to show outgoing transactions (and thus balance) as well. In other words, the protocol allows this. It's a bit more different than we initially thought to the extent that it's not simply "give them a key and tell them to scan".
 
  
My understanding was that this allowed someone to buy information with Bitcoin without trusting someone else, but how could it be used to enable private contracts?  What other unique structures and apps can we imagine that are only enabled via a viewkey (so that zerocoin cannot host such things).  Let's think outside of legal compliance.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1141
February 28, 2016, 04:48:32 PM

Interestingly I found out a few weeks ago (courtesy of TPTB_need_war) that Zerocash (Zcash) doesn't have such a thing as a viewkey. The first Wired article states:

In my opinion, this is a huge advantage for Monero.
 
  
The words 'huge advantage' are a gross understatement here.  This isn't just about taxation and legal compliance.  There are entire classes of necessary applications that cannot exist without a viewkey.  
  
For example, let's say you and I use Monero tokens to enable a digital contract that only we know about.  First of all, this is an unpondered Monero killer-app: irreversible private contracts that two entities can make without the need for anyone else to ever know.  
  
But it's the view key that makes this possible, because without that we would need to give someone access to the edit the underlying contract to prove it exists.  This is a huge nail in the coffin for Zerocash.  
  
Will it eventually exist and be useful for some things?  Yes.  But Monero will still be superior.

That's kind of a poor example, because they kind of did that 2 days ago already:

https://bitcoincore.org/en/2016/02/26/zero-knowledge-contingent-payments-announcement/

A better example would be Company A that has to hand over all their transactions (expenditures, income/revenue, and perhaps balances of certain accounts) to an auditing firm (or the IRS) for a certain fiscal year.

Note: I know the viewkey only shows incoming transactions, but it is possible to show outgoing transactions (and thus balance) as well. In other words, the protocol allows this. It's a bit more different than we initially thought to the extent that it's not simply "give them a key and tell them to scan".
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
February 28, 2016, 04:34:43 PM

Interestingly I found out a few weeks ago (courtesy of TPTB_need_war) that Zerocash (Zcash) doesn't have such a thing as a viewkey. The first Wired article states:

In my opinion, this is a huge advantage for Monero.
 
 
The words 'huge advantage' are a gross understatement here.  This isn't just about taxation and legal compliance.  There are entire classes of necessary applications that cannot exist without a viewkey. 
 
For example, let's say you and I use Monero tokens to enable a digital contract that only we know about.  First of all, this is an unpondered Monero killer-app: irreversible private contracts that two entities can make without the need for anyone else to ever know
 
But it's the view key that makes this possible, because without that we would need to give someone access to the edit the underlying contract to prove it exists.  This is a huge nail in the coffin for Zerocash. 
 
Will it eventually exist and be useful for some things?  Yes.  But Monero will still be superior.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1141
February 28, 2016, 04:26:05 PM
...

Is this bad or very bad for monero?

Neither, It has zero effect. We are all well aware of that project and whenever it finishes it still will not effect XMR. Patching a leaking boat will not make it float as long as a hull made of better materials.

Interestingly I found out a few weeks ago (courtesy of TPTB_need_war) that Zerocash (Zcash) doesn't have such a thing as a viewkey. The first Wired article states:

...
Whether Monero exists as a test bed for features that will be assimilated into bitcoin, or Monero will simply live as a parallel, opaque option to the transparent bitcoin chain, or perhaps just take over and leave bitcoin in the dust. All this will play out.
...

One of my favorite things about Monero is how it can exist as both opaque and transparent.  If I wish for an account to be transparent, I can simply expose my viewkey.

The view key is well known, but it can be a blunt instrument, since it reveals all payments for the entire lifetime of an account (including past and future). It is less known that you can disclose individual payments on a case by case basis, as needed:

In case Alice wants to prove she sent a transaction to Bob’s address she can either disclose r or use any kind of zero-knowledge protocol to prove she knows r (for example by signing the transaction with r)


In my opinion, this is a huge advantage for Monero.
legendary
Activity: 3836
Merit: 4969
Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it
February 28, 2016, 04:14:46 PM
...

Is this bad or very bad for monero?

Neither, It has zero effect. We are all well aware of that project and whenever it finishes it still will not effect XMR. Patching a leaking boat will not make it float as long as a hull made of better materials.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
February 28, 2016, 04:01:46 PM
The down moves are very sticky. Looks like Monero wants to rise like a cork.
 
 
From one trader to another, it is not easy.  You cannot rely on anything anyone says.  What you *can* do is send your 'troops' (coins) into battle either long or short.  This is the market equivalent of uncovering the 'fog of war' and calling someone's bluff in poker.  The resistance you encounter on either side will tell you the truth of the matter.  Unfortunately, this information is not without cost, as you will have to cover or buy back in soon after your gambit. 
 
I will share this with you: in the past weeks I have dumped a little as a test, just to see how fragile our upward movement is.  After all, if you are trying to acquire, you don't want to make a big fuss about it and drive up the price - right?  I can confirm there is strong acquisition going on independent of any other market indicators and hype. 
 
Of course don't take this as trading advice; just my personal observations.
 
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
February 28, 2016, 01:10:43 PM
The down moves are very sticky. Looks like Monero wants to rise like a cork.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
February 28, 2016, 11:15:52 AM
I think the markets will calm a little bit now. Not too much though.
I consider anything below 0.00185 a good buying opportunity currently. The short term looks a bit bearish to me, I have prepared some btc to catch the falling knife.
member
Activity: 78
Merit: 10
February 28, 2016, 11:07:57 AM
Long term look at Monero.



The moving averages are showing a strong bullish trend..



If we look at the Bollinger bands we see one of the tightest squeezes in Moneros history followed by a strong breakout. Its been like just over a month since that breakout I would say this is just the beginning of a longer term trend. Currently our next big resistance is in the range of 210k and 220k sats after that point it doesn't seem like there is much to oppose the bulls.
full member
Activity: 211
Merit: 100
February 28, 2016, 09:39:26 AM
   
Unfortunately Mein Fuhrer just heard about the debacle and he is not pleased. 
 
http://captiongenerator.com/79795/Fuhrer-Hears-Report-on-Satoshi-Roundtable

nice one Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
February 28, 2016, 09:38:24 AM
Today I was reading the trollbox on Polo. Usually I do not do it but today I felt like I want to see the general atmosphere there. Obviously it was hyped and pumped. However, the thing that made my day was I heard one guy saying he is making money with these pumps and storing them into XMR.
Looks like Monero is beginning to achieve the state of passive holders who simply want privately store their wealth they make when trading/investing. These are early weak signals of Monero replacing gold bullion as a store of value.

When the price of Monero approaches to 1000 usd each I am expecting some calculations from Risto how much each Monero costs if Monero replaces gold as the ultimate safe haven.

I would put to much faith into what they say in trollbox. You can find there "positive" things about literally every single coin.

Yes trolls are obviously pumping the coins they own because it is their job from which they get paid.
That being said, I love when people view Monero like this. There are huge opportunities for Monero to get ultrapumped if the whole trollbox will start praising the name of Monero. Potentially there is volume of 20 000-30 000 btc on daily basis. Etherium has been successful getting the majority of the volume recently but at some point people might find Monero even more exciting and put their bitcoins into Monero and then the price goes to new heighs. I see even 0.1 btc Monero price a possibility in a few years if everything goes as in scripts (usually it doesn't - it can go even better).
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
February 28, 2016, 09:34:41 AM
With the exception of those knowingly propagating the scam I don't think anyone "deserves to go down with the ship".  I want to rescue (through education) as many people as I can.

 
 
Unfortunately Mein Fuhrer just heard about the debacle and he is not pleased. 
 
http://captiongenerator.com/79795/Fuhrer-Hears-Report-on-Satoshi-Roundtable

Today I was reading the trollbox on Polo. Usually I do not do it but today I felt like I want to see the general atmosphere there. Obviously it was hyped and pumped. However, the thing that made my day was I heard one guy saying he is making money with these pumps and storing them into XMR.
Looks like Monero is beginning to achieve the state of passive holders who simply want privately store their wealth they make when trading/investing. These are early weak signals of Monero replacing gold bullion as a store of value.

Yes, among alt traders, XMR is growing into a stable hedge - the perfect place to move your money and profits into when you're done chasing waterfalls.

That's actually the true sign of money: when you are done with investing, you will always end up to cash which is Monero.
When you have done your work in your day job, you get paid and convert it to Monero.
If enough people will do this, nothing can stop this beast, it is like the reincarnation of cthulhu.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
February 28, 2016, 09:15:16 AM
Today I was reading the trollbox on Polo. Usually I do not do it but today I felt like I want to see the general atmosphere there. Obviously it was hyped and pumped. However, the thing that made my day was I heard one guy saying he is making money with these pumps and storing them into XMR.
Looks like Monero is beginning to achieve the state of passive holders who simply want privately store their wealth they make when trading/investing. These are early weak signals of Monero replacing gold bullion as a store of value.

When the price of Monero approaches to 1000 usd each I am expecting some calculations from Risto how much each Monero costs if Monero replaces gold as the ultimate safe haven.

I would put to much faith into what they say in trollbox. You can find there "positive" things about literally every single coin.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
February 28, 2016, 09:04:27 AM
With the exception of those knowingly propagating the scam I don't think anyone "deserves to go down with the ship".  I want to rescue (through education) as many people as I can.

 
 
Unfortunately Mein Fuhrer just heard about the debacle and he is not pleased. 
 
http://captiongenerator.com/79795/Fuhrer-Hears-Report-on-Satoshi-Roundtable

Today I was reading the trollbox on Polo. Usually I do not do it but today I felt like I want to see the general atmosphere there. Obviously it was hyped and pumped. However, the thing that made my day was I heard one guy saying he is making money with these pumps and storing them into XMR.
Looks like Monero is beginning to achieve the state of passive holders who simply want privately store their wealth they make when trading/investing. These are early weak signals of Monero replacing gold bullion as a store of value.

Yes, among alt traders, XMR is growing into a stable hedge - the perfect place to move your money and profits into when you're done chasing waterfalls.
legendary
Activity: 2016
Merit: 1259
February 28, 2016, 06:17:02 AM
It appears that one could market buy 90k XMR for about $90k right now on Poloniex.  What an opportunity for a low slippage buy!

A measely $90K?? Sure!

checks wallet

Shit.

Sigh

 If I the had excess BTC I would do it for the  Grin

legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
February 28, 2016, 06:01:52 AM
Today I was reading the trollbox on Polo. Usually I do not do it but today I felt like I want to see the general atmosphere there. Obviously it was hyped and pumped. However, the thing that made my day was I heard one guy saying he is making money with these pumps and storing them into XMR.
Looks like Monero is beginning to achieve the state of passive holders who simply want privately store their wealth they make when trading/investing. These are early weak signals of Monero replacing gold bullion as a store of value.

When the price of Monero approaches to 1000 usd each I am expecting some calculations from Risto how much each Monero costs if Monero replaces gold as the ultimate safe haven.
hero member
Activity: 1874
Merit: 840
Keep what's important, and know who's your friend
February 28, 2016, 03:08:51 AM
It appears that one could market buy 90k XMR for about $90k right now on Poloniex.  What an opportunity for a low slippage buy!

A measely $90K?? Sure!

checks wallet

Shit.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
February 28, 2016, 03:03:18 AM
It appears that one could market buy 90k XMR for about $90k right now on Poloniex.  What an opportunity for a low slippage buy!

I think Poloniex would make the best possible escrow between two parties anyway. 
 
I know people talk about preferring to do trades off-exchange, but why?  The fee is reasonable.  Just agree that the XMR seller will place a sell wall at the agreed upon price and the buyer will come in within a few minutes and eat it.  Everyone wins. 
 
Also, Ric really was impressive in that interview, and as I've expressed elsewhere - really expressed exactly what the problem with Dash is.  Here's hoping it shakes a few of the Dash faithful from their perch, and here's hoping his charming South African self wins over a few Bitcoin maximalist whales while he's there.
legendary
Activity: 2016
Merit: 1259
February 28, 2016, 01:20:33 AM
It appears that one could market buy 90k XMR for about $90k right now on Poloniex.  What an opportunity for a low slippage buy!
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1141
February 27, 2016, 11:30:55 PM
Crosspost:

Meanwhile, our core-team member Riccardo "fluffypony" Spagni is currently present at the Satoshi Roundtable:
http://satoshiroundtable.org/

Here he is, being interviewed there on Bitcoin Uncensored (still live, so go back to about 6 minutes in from the beginning):

https://youtu.be/PKd7F-10lxM

Here is the full vid, fluffypony is on from ~6:00 until ~32:00 and gives a little interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKd7F-10lxM
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