Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1578. (Read 3313576 times)

That is either a lie or a serious delusion.

This is precisely what I mean by a circle jerk that does not value the expertise and effort we need to win. In other words, not a meritocracy.

Okay I will leave the thread.


I didn't introduce the Zerocash discussion. Apparently some in your community think it is relevant to this thread. You blame me for everything because you just want a circle jerk here because you are mining each other. Who knows you are probably behind some scheme to take money from other investors here. There is always a reason that people act irrationally towards truth.

So much for your idealistic delusions about open source and doing it as a community for the common good. That is all bullshit.

Devs who want to change the world and make a lot of money should wake up and join with a better leadership.

Yeah I believe in open source, but it applies in refinement scenarios. Not in design scenarios. Groups are filled with game theory. Design requires focused intent and focused profit.

Good because most of your posts in this thread are off topic and a waste of my reading time. I suggest you try to be as considerate of others as you expect them to be of you.

Market looks skittish, may be able to grab some more on the cheap.

I hate when n00bs make me repeat the same shit over and over and over again. Do you think my time is free?


I already proposed a solution in my prior reply to you that is using their technology in ephemeral mixers, which thus avoids systemic risk and reveals which mixers are compromised (which is likely to be quite rare because participants will learn to judge which masterkeys were generated correctly at ceremony).

Free markets always work best as long as systemic risk is avoided.


Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Exemplifies that you are a n00b who should STFU.

If there is a flaw in the cryptography for proving the homomorphic sums (and that is new cryptography), then indeed the attacker can create new value out-of-thin-air and not be detected. I am not going to explain the examples and math again. I already did in the past. Go ask Shen-noether.

You should have paid attention the last time I explained this! You always want to use me but then you don't respect me enough to reward me[1] and then you expect me to correct for your inability to study and remember my posts carefully.


Again my point is that you could have the safest snot in the world, but if people can't use snot for anything, then they are going to put their energies into perfecting and peer reviewing what they need.

Seems you all often miss the points entirely. They fly right over your heads.

I do agree that the new cryptography for Zerocash and zk-snarks is more complex than the new cryptography for homomorphic proof-of-sums for RingCT (or my ZKT), but I don't think that helps given the meta-data problem for RingCT/ZKT/Cryptonote (and every anonymity technology other than Zerocash). What is the point of pursuing a direction which is known to be unreliable and fundamentally flawed (in a way that can never be fixed), when we can pursue a direction that fixes the meta-data problem and is a matter of convincing whether the technology is sound with much peer review. Certainly the peer review can be done over time, and probably incentivized if the technology has a popular application.


Please don't tell me I will have to waste more of my time defending an obvious point (for anyone who has the slightest technological understanding).

I am frustrated how much fucking time we waste. You all have been convincing yourselves in your little delusions for years of what ever circle jerk bubbles you prefer to be in (which often include ridiculing/dismissing me).

Edit: correction:

[1] I was rewarded by smooth, jl777, and rpietila. Big thanks to them. Very much so. I am just frustrated because I need a viable financial direction and we need to work smart and find a way that we can make these matters work in our favor. And I am trying to find people who value me and find a way to get it done.

I do not consider TPTB_need_war a troll at all. He raises many issues that result in making Monero a lot stronger.

This does not answer my question which is cut and dry and goes to the heart of the trust issue.

Please dont feed the trolls guys.

Of course they will need to convince the public the master key is sound. Or use my idea above of having multiple mixers and timing them out. I believe there is a solution, yet I will agree the current organization of their plans seems legally and structurally flawed.

That is why I say we can transition and beat them. But the technology is real anonymity. If you want real anonymity, you have to find a way to use their technology. Period. (and I have been studying this for a long time)

I am aware of that. However, for an stand-alone altcoin creating coins out-of-thin-air is just as detrimental as unmasking the anonymity, because both will likely result in the coin dying.


No it doesn't, because coinbase transactions are mixin = 0 in Monero and therefore you can check if the total supply hasn't been tampered with.


I don't say I do. eb3f stated on reddit the following: "Monero uses ring signatures, as you may know, which is battle-tested and well-understood in the cryptography world and in practice". Even with community review it will take a long time to get to this state. I also don't agree with bolded here, but I won't go on a back-and-forth discussion with you over that.

I'll let others which are more knowledgeable comment on the metadata.

Using what operating system and firmware?

Yes this could very likely be the case with Dash, and a very valid point in that case; however it does not apply to coins such as Bitcoin or Monero where the miners can do as they please with the coinbase. When it comes to FinCEN and Dash one needs an army of lawyers on both sides to sort that out.

My interpretation of FinCEN guidance is miners would have to register as MSBs if they are forced to transfer some of the coinbase to some other party. Just because it is enforced by the protocol, doesn't absolve the miner from (the legal culpability of) creating the block which created new supply and transferred it to a third party.

Disclaimer: IANAL.

No closed source. The key would be produced publicly at a ceremony.

---

The meta-data (e.g. IP address, browser cookie, timing analysis and location of connection, what you said in facebook or on the phone, etc) correlation problem isn't likely impacted no matter how many times or inputs you ring mix. It is very difficult for mere mortals to cover their tracks on all the possible meta-data correlations. It is unfathomably difficult. Don't fool yourself into thinking it isn't.

The combinatorial analysis flaw (which I introduced to smooth during the BCX incident and hence followed up in debate with Shen-noether) is very theoretical and may or may not be plausible. In my thinking, it comes more into play if combined with meta-data breakdown of the anonymity systemically. Mixing more may help somewhat, but it can also make it worse because it is the excessive overlapping in mixes that causes the combinatorial unmasking.

In short, it is a clusterfuck (not a clean, clear, provable solution) and that is why I abandoned it.

Miners do not have to register as MSBs. Please read the guidance. https://www.fincen.gov/news_room/rp/rulings/html/FIN-2014-R001.html The jury is very much out on Dash masternodes. How will the investors recover the funds from an IPO? If it is by emission then the IPO company is an MSB in the United States.

Not if the block chain is decentralized, but see below...


The masterkey has to be produced in a way that no one knows it. The proposals had been to use a public ceremony and a computer examined by everyone attending, to be sure the masterkey is unknown to anyone.

Note if the masterkey is known, that person can create coins out-of-thin-air, but he can't unmask the anonymity. That is a crucial distinction.

This is why I proposed the idea of using Zerocash as a mixer that eventually times out, so that we can be sure the mixer hasn't created any new coins. Everyone going into the mixer takes the risk that they may not be able to come out of the mixer if the attacker has already created coins. Then we could have many of these mixers in a free market, and users would decide which mixers they trust. Again anonymity is never compromised and the run on the bank can only be a loss to participants, not to the entire ecosystem. I am pretty sure this solves the problem and this is why we can take their open source and beat them.

I am loaded with ideas and designs to solve real problems in crypto. Hopefully some smart devs are going to realize they are better off working with me.


RingCT has the same problem. I explained in I believe both the chess thread and my Zero Knowledge Transactions thread. This is another reason I abandoned it (in addition to the inability to get reliable anonymity since it doesn't hide meta-data the way Zerocash/Zcash does).


Sort of true, but zk-snarks have been out for some years already (which is what Zerocash is based on) and one flaw was found and fixed already.

These are very, very smart dudes. Wilcox created the very awesome Blake2 hash which I am using in my design (much superior for CPUs).

I don't think you should bet against them, because Zerocash has anonymity and nothing else does! The community will make sure it is peer reviewed. We must. You had better start figuring out how to transition and pronto.


All miners will have to register as money transmitters under FinCEN regulations, same as the issue for Dash masternodes. There has seriously bad implications in their investment strategy. But their code and developers are valuable. The investors can probably recover their money on the initial IPO. They should IPO the damn thing and do it legally and not mess with this "master of the universe" idea above.

I am contemplating contacting them, but I need to think through their economic options. It may be impossible to get them to do the right thing.

But they could definitely benefit from my endorsement in an IPO. A legal IPO! As well, they could benefit from my block chain tech.


Sorry I strongly disagree. Meta-data correlation is fundamental and smooth should remember how Dash and I lost on the point that Cryptonote one-time rings are End-to-End principled and off chain mixing (CoinJoin, CoinShuffle, etc) are not. This meta-data point is also fundamental and this time smooth is positioning himself on the wrong side of the truth. Hopefully he will realize this asap, although his vested interests may prevent him from being objective (hopefully not).


We may indeed find irresolvable weaknesses, such as DDoS resistance is the one I am expecting given the slow speed of verification. But don't fall into the trap of being blinded and trying to rationalize your bagholding. The devil is in the details, and I would be very worried if I were you, that you are going to be wrong.

A for profit company with closed source code controlling the initial key for a zerocash like currency is a regulatory nightmare. This is especially the case in the United States where the company would be considered an MSB by FinCEN and be subject to AML/KNC reporting on transactions. If something approaches "Fedcoin" this would be it. Any kind of centralized distribution of the coins by an administrator will make the administrator an MSB subject to AML/KNC reporting. Please read the FinCEN guidance. https://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html  

Would this metadata and combinatorial analysis hold even if mixin 10 was a default on all tx's?

What ever happened  to this?

Agreed that is the opportunity to beat them by open sourcing their code. But you will also need my block chain technology to make the big win.


Sorry no. It is still not immune to meta-data and the theoretical combinatorial analysis. Not reliable. Not realistic.

We need to move forward. It is up to you, I know my thinking and priorities on this matter.

back to the speculation... 12h looks like buy the dip before next wave, anybody else did some ta?

ma30/60/90/150 on 12h looks like bullish breakout for monero

A for-profit coin company, i dont care what they make, iwill never trust them. moreover RingCT will move Monero closer to Zcash