Author

Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1586. (Read 3313576 times)

legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1491
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
January 18, 2016, 02:34:50 AM
ArticMine PMed me after I wrote that flaming post, and said he would reply after studying my posts. He has not yet replied. Does that mean I am correct and there is no solution for Monero. I think so.

It is fundamental. Afaics, you'd have to completely rewrite Moaneuro. Tongue

Rewrite Monero, is not necessary at all but some documentation on how the Cryptonote adaptive blocksize limits actually work is needed, especially given the formula in section 6.2.3 of the Cryptonote Whitepaper is wrong. https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf. My response will come in time.

I will start by examining the Cryptonote Penalty Function for oversize blocks. This is critical to understand any form of spam attack against a Cryptonote coin. From the Cryptonote whitepaper I cited above the penalty function is:

Penalty = BaseReward (BlkSize / MN - 1)2

The new reward is:

NewReward = BaseReward - Penalty

Where MN is the median of the blocksize over the last N blocks
BlkSize is the size of the current block
BaseReward is the reward as per the emission curve or where applicable the tail emission
NewReward is the actual reward paid to the miner
The Maximum allowed blocksize, BlkSize, is 2MN
The penalty is only applied when BlkSize > (1 + Bmin) MN Where 0 < Bmin < 1 In the Cryptonote whitepaper Bmin = 0.1.
 
The error in the Cryptonote Whitepaper was to set NewReward = Penalty

For simplicity I will define:
BlkSize = (1+B) MN
BaseReward = Rbase
Penalty (for a given B) = PB
NewReward (for a given B) = RB

The penalty for a given B becomes:
PB = RbaseB2
While the new reward for a given B becomes:
RB = Rbase(1 - B2)
The first derivative of PB with respect to B is
dPB / dB = 2RbaseB

In order to attack the coin by bloating the blocksize the attacker needs to cause at least over 50% of the miners to mine oversize blocks and for an expedient attack close to 100% or the miners to mine oversize blocks. This attack must be a maintained over a sustained period of time and more importantly must be maintained in order to keep the oversized blocks, since once the attack stops the blocks will fall back to their normal size.  There are essentially two options here:

1) A 51% attack. I am not going to pursue this for obvious reasons.

2) Induce the existing miners to mine oversize blocks. This is actually the more interesting case; however after cost analysis it becomes effectively a rental version of 1 above. Since the rate of change (first derivative) of PB is proportional to B the most effective option for the attacker is to run the attack with B = 1. The cost of the attack has as a lower bound Rbase but would be higher, and proportional to, Rbase  because miners will demand a substantial premium over the base reward to mine the spam blocks due to the increased risk of orphan blocks as the blocksize increases and competition from legitimate users whose cost per KB for transaction fees needed to compete with the attacker will fall as the blocksize increases. The impact on the coin is to stop new coins from being created while the attack is going on. These coins are replaced by the attacker having to buy coins on the open market in order to continue the attack. The impact of this is to further increase the costs to the attacker.

It at this point where we see the critical importance of a tail emission since if Rbase = 0 this attack has zero cost and the tragedy of the commons actually occurs. This is the critical difference between those Cryptonote coins that have a tail emission, and have solved the problem, such as Monero and those that do not, and will in a matter of time become vulnerable, such as Bytecoin.



Nice write up.

And how would you tie this MONERO writeup in contrast to Bitcoin not having a tail emission and what that may imply in the future?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
January 18, 2016, 01:39:38 AM
I will start by examining the Cryptonote Penalty Function for oversize blocks. This is critical to understand any form of spam attack against a Cryptonote coin. From the Cryptonote whitepaper I cited above the penalty function is:

Penalty = BaseReward (BlkSize / MN - 1)2

The new reward is:

NewReward = BaseReward - Penalty

Where MN is the median of the blocksize over the last N blocks
BlkSize is the size of the current block
BaseReward is the reward as per the emission curve or where applicable the tail emission
NewReward is the actual reward paid to the miner
The Maximum allowed blocksize, BlkSize, is 2MN
The penalty is only applied when BlkSize > (1 + Bmin) MN Where 0 < Bmin < 1 In the Cryptonote whitepaper Bmin = 0.1.
 
The error in the Cryptonote Whitepaper was to set NewReward = Penalty

For simplicity I will define:
BlkSize = (1+B) MN
BaseReward = Rbase
Penalty (for a given B) = PB
NewReward (for a given B) = RB

The penalty for a given B becomes:
PB = RbaseB2
While the new reward for a given B becomes:
RB = Rbase(1 - B2)
The first derivative of PB with respect to B is
dPB / dB = 2RbaseB

In order to attack the coin by bloating the blocksize the attacker needs to cause at least over 50% of the miners to mine oversize blocks and for an expedient attack close to 100% or the miners to mine oversize blocks. This attack must be a maintained over a sustained period of time and more importantly must be maintained in order to keep the oversized blocks, since once the attack stops the blocks will fall back to their normal size.  There are essentially two options here:

1) A 51% attack. I am not going to pursue this for obvious reasons.

2) Induce the existing miners to mine oversize blocks. This is actually the more interesting case; however after cost analysis it becomes effectively a rental version of 1 above. Since the rate of change (first derivative) of PB is proportional to B the most effective option for the attacker is to run the attack with B = 1. The cost of the attack has as a lower bound Rbase but would be higher, and proportional to, Rbase  because miners will demand a substantial premium over the base reward to mine the spam blocks due to the increased risk of orphan blocks as the blocksize increases and competition from legitimate users whose cost per KB for transaction fees needed to compete with the attacker will fall as the blocksize increases. The impact on the coin is to stop new coins from being created while the attack is going on. These coins are replaced by the attacker having to buy coins on the open market in order to continue the attack. The impact of this is to further increase the costs to the attacker.

It at this point where we see the critical importance of a tail emission since if Rbase = 0 this attack has zero cost and the tragedy of the commons actually occurs. This is the critical difference between those Cryptonote coins that have a tail emission, and have solved the problem, such as Monero and those that do not, and will in a matter of time become vulnerable, such as Bytecoin.

TYVM for that.

I've been (not really) looking for something to link the "Adaptive Blocksize" part of my sig to, and voila, here it is.

All hail the LazyNet!   Cool
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 501
January 18, 2016, 01:21:36 AM
Code:
0.00118000	66666.00000000	78.66588000	93.90213373
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
January 18, 2016, 12:32:49 AM
ArticMine PMed me after I wrote that flaming post, and said he would reply after studying my posts. He has not yet replied. Does that mean I am correct and there is no solution for Monero. I think so.

It is fundamental. Afaics, you'd have to completely rewrite Moaneuro. Tongue

Rewrite Monero, is not necessary at all but some documentation on how the Cryptonote adaptive blocksize limits actually work is needed, especially given the formula in section 6.2.3 of the Cryptonote Whitepaper is wrong. https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf. My response will come in time.

I will start by examining the Cryptonote Penalty Function for oversize blocks. This is critical to understand any form of spam attack against a Cryptonote coin. From the Cryptonote whitepaper I cited above the penalty function is:

Penalty = BaseReward (BlkSize / MN - 1)2

The new reward is:

NewReward = BaseReward - Penalty

Where MN is the median of the blocksize over the last N blocks
BlkSize is the size of the current block
BaseReward is the reward as per the emission curve or where applicable the tail emission
NewReward is the actual reward paid to the miner
The Maximum allowed blocksize, BlkSize, is 2MN
The penalty is only applied when BlkSize > (1 + Bmin) MN Where 0 < Bmin < 1 In the Cryptonote whitepaper Bmin = 0.1.
 
The error in the Cryptonote Whitepaper was to set NewReward = Penalty

For simplicity I will define:
BlkSize = (1+B) MN
BaseReward = Rbase
Penalty (for a given B) = PB
NewReward (for a given B) = RB

The penalty for a given B becomes:
PB = RbaseB2
While the new reward for a given B becomes:
RB = Rbase(1 - B2)
The first derivative of PB with respect to B is
dPB / dB = 2RbaseB

In order to attack the coin by bloating the blocksize the attacker needs to cause at least over 50% of the miners to mine oversize blocks and for an expedient attack close to 100% or the miners to mine oversize blocks. This attack must be a maintained over a sustained period of time and more importantly must be maintained in order to keep the oversized blocks, since once the attack stops the blocks will fall back to their normal size.  There are essentially two options here:

1) A 51% attack. I am not going to pursue this for obvious reasons.

2) Induce the existing miners to mine oversize blocks. This is actually the more interesting case; however after cost analysis it becomes effectively a rental version of 1 above. Since the rate of change (first derivative) of PB is proportional to B the most effective option for the attacker is to run the attack with B = 1. The cost of the attack has as a lower bound Rbase but would be higher, and proportional to, Rbase  because miners will demand a substantial premium over the base reward to mine the spam blocks due to the increased risk of orphan blocks as the blocksize increases and competition from legitimate users whose cost per KB for transaction fees needed to compete with the attacker will fall as the blocksize increases. The impact on the coin is to stop new coins from being created while the attack is going on. These coins are replaced by the attacker having to buy coins on the open market in order to continue the attack. The impact of this is to further increase the costs to the attacker.

It at this point where we see the critical importance of a tail emission since if Rbase = 0 this attack has zero cost and the tragedy of the commons actually occurs. This is the critical difference between those Cryptonote coins that have a tail emission, and have solved the problem, such as Monero and those that do not, and will in a matter of time become vulnerable, such as Bytecoin.

Edit June 12, 2022 02:37:35: PM Previous edit January 18, 2016, 05:45:13 AM

This edit is after the start of the tail emission so Rbase = 0.6 XMR, and over six years since the original post. I wish to note the following:

We add a transaction of size TT to a block at a point B in the penalty, and define BT = TT / MN; the new penalty becomes Rbase(B+BT)2. The difference between the old and the new penalty is then Rbase(2BBT + BT2)

a) The cost of the attack in 2 above with B = 1, which was later called "The Big Bang" attack can be shown to have a lower bound of 4Rbase by analyzing the game theory of the Monero fee market. The only assumption that is needed is a free market of miners and users acting in their enlightened self interest. To understand this fee market one needs to consider a mining adding transactions to a block. The miner adds transactions in the order of the fee per byte (this is actually a very good approximation, where the BT << B, to the discrete optimization problem). The miner will then stop given one of the following:

1) The miner runs out of transactions  
2) The additional penalty to add a transaction is greater than the fee paid by the transaction
3) B = 1 (There is no more space in the block)

The key to the game theory is that: The last transaction added to the block has paid the lowest fee, and this fee corresponds to the highest additional penalty paid to add a transaction to the block One can then place a lower bound on the cost of a Big Bang attack per block at B =  1 as 4Rbase. Rbase goes to feed the penalty compensating the miners for an effective coin burn, while 3Rbase goes to the miners who profit at the expense of the attacker. The original wording gives the impression that the cost per block to the attacker is only Rbase. This latter cost per block is actually the additional cost per block for a Big Bank attack as an add on to a 51% attack as in 1 above.

b) The analysis in a) above does not take in to account the additional cost and delay to a Big Bang attacker as a result of Long Term Median that was added starting in 2019

c) The additional cost to a Big Bang attacker due to orphan block refers to, Peter R. Rizun, A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a Block Size Limit, August 2015 https://www.bitcoinunlimited.info/resources/feemarket.pdf. This leads to an additional effective penalty. that is exponential in the blocksize and proportional to the block reward. This is of course subject to the assumptions in the paper.
 
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
January 17, 2016, 07:47:41 AM
My reply to the above rebuttals to my prior message basically can be summed up in this reply I made in another thread:

[...]

I view Monero and Ethereum in the same light.  I'm sure you would have pointed out bitcoins flaws when it was $10 per coin and said "This will never work." out of some of the same principles you are using now.

I did point out in 2013 exactly how Bitcoin would end up failing, which I said would be game theory of centralization around mining. And I was correct.

I never wrote that Bitcoin would have no utility and in fact I wrote that the utility of Bitcoin was very inspiring. Why do you reckon I am still here in crypto if I didn't think so!

Problem Monero has is that there is very little demand for an anonymity for which the reliability is unprovable. It is a marketing utility problem, which Bitcoin doesn't suffer. Even if we did implement provable anonymity (e.g. Zerocash not Zerocoin), it still not clear if markets for anonymity would be great, especially if the decentralized, permissionless attribute isn't assured, because the government can simply take control over centralized mining and force the anonymity to be stripped off. OTOH, companies are saying that privacy is very important to them and perhaps they do not mean hiding from the NSA. And public block chains using encryption are superior conceptually to private block chains using perimeters defenses because even sneakernets fail (e.g. Stuxnet). But the things corporations want privacy on are the block chain 2.0 features that Ethereum is working on. The corporations aren't interested just in crypto currency alone as that doesn't have much utility to them. Cryptonote (especially combined with Confidential Transactions that hide values) is a very technologically interesting concept, but without any significant utility in the markets.

[...]

That is relevant to "Monero Speculation".

As for rolling up the sleeves and hiding away in development forums and chats, I find I am more productive in coding when I talk to no one. Collaborating on Cryptonote block chain designs isn't very inspiring for me. So what would I talk to your developers about, given they are not going to be interested in talking about rewriting a block chain design from scratch. So the only input I can have is to make speculators aware of the fact that Monero doesn't fix the Tragedy of the Commons around block chain economics & scaling, and also to point out the lack of utility for unprovable anonymity combined with block chain tech which does not have the decentralized, permissionless guarantee.

It is simply that I don't see the point. I have stated numerous times that I think smooth and the other Monero devs are very smart and I love to work with smart devs when attitudes and plans are aligned. I was put off by the condescending attitude of Shen-noether though. It seems that what programmers like to see are programmers talking tech shop and making open source contributions. Well me too!

You don't know me well. There is a huge distinction between trying to form a holistic view of crypto here in the forums and hiding away doing coding. Smooth seems comfortable doing both interleaved (multi-tasking). I don't. When I code, I don't talk. So if you see me talking, I am surely not coding.

As for open source and collaboration, it is highly necessary at some point forward in a project's life. But there is also another point-of-view that says that in some nascent stage it might be more efficient to avoid the communication load especially when in holistic design mode, because it is very slow to communicate all the thoughts in one's brain to another person or especially amongst group. Design by consensus is a very arduous process and not always the best for creativity. OTOH, interacting during design process is very important in order to flesh out ideas. Since I currently don't have any group to work with, I flesh out communication and explanation here in the forums.

This should not be construed as an attempt to belittle your developers and the work that has been put into the open source. Coding requires effort and is expensive in terms of opportunity costs. That is why I argue we need to have a clear design and marketing plan BEFORE we dive into massive coding effort.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
January 17, 2016, 04:08:56 AM
Let's try to stay on topic without the need for further message deletions...
full member
Activity: 211
Merit: 100
January 17, 2016, 03:49:55 AM
XMR needs to be picked apart by competent people to find faults (if any) so it becomes stronger and less vulnerable to attack.

If TPTB is not competent then people must show that by challenging his points (I'm non-tech, so can't myself)

He is basically claiming you can throw every coin into the trash bin because it is so deeply flawed.
And he can prove it because it is 'true':

Look at bitcoin and it's mining controlled by handful of entities. Micro transactions? Not possible and there have been no elegant solution so far that would solve this or there are other implications of this design that cannot be overcome. Anonymity? You can't have that because TOR is basically a honeypot.
...

This is common knowledge he likes to brag about.

He also brags about how he solved everything in his as he calls it himself vaporcoin.

There is nothing to challenge so far.
sr. member
Activity: 432
Merit: 251
January 17, 2016, 03:39:23 AM
You are starting to sound desperate by coming here.

My only point was to inform the community that Monero is claiming to have fixed things that it has not. Also to see if anyone could point out an error in my analysis.

And what's the point of posting it on speculation forum instead of getmonero forum, irc, mail, pm...

Okay I think we are done here. I don't expect we can elevate our discussions to a mature level.

What did you expect? If you want a serious disccusion about dev things you should go to the correct place talk to the dev team and discuss it at dev level.
full member
Activity: 211
Merit: 100
January 17, 2016, 03:30:12 AM
You are starting to sound desperate by coming here.

My only point was to inform the community that Monero is claiming to have fixed things that it has not. Also to see if anyone could point out an error in my analysis.

I don't see how having community discussion is desperate.

I continue to make the point that what ever you might think of me and my plans, that is irrelevant to the point that I made some factual statements.

The continued attacks of me (my person) and on my vaporshit, shitplans, seems more desperate. Better to ignore me entirely right. Or respond to the facts.

Any way, it seems our community is always about fighting. Smoothie you in the past were very focused on truth, but when you don't like the facts, then you don't want to talk about truth and instead want to attack my reputation.

My reputation has nothing to do with any of it. It has nothing to do with whether the facts I explained are correct. It has nothing to do with the outcome of my vaporized shit shit shit. The result of my life will not come from my reputation but from my actions and the serendipity of life.

Okay I think we are done here. I don't expect we can elevate our discussions to a mature level.

With all due respect, your input on these forums has been less and less interesting over time. I am not put off by your nazi speech I am already accustomed to. It is more about the content which is lacking the informational part that worries me.
You have not solved anything until you put your ideas on the table so we can examine. Correct me if I am wrong but you have not published any description of your great solution in depth. However you have written many texts by your all powerful ego claiming basically every coin (especially bitcoin) is flawed and it is only you that got the solution right. I think everybody already got that - there is not much more to add, why waste more time?
Obviously Monero is your favorite coin because it is the best existing tech there is - you should at least admit that.
sr. member
Activity: 307
Merit: 250
January 17, 2016, 01:21:40 AM
You are starting to sound desperate by coming here.

My only point was to inform the community that Monero is claiming to have fixed things that it has not. Also to see if anyone could point out an error in my analysis.

I don't see how having community discussion is desperate.

I continue to make the point that what ever you might think of me and my plans, that is irrelevant to the point that I made some factual statements.

The continued attacks of me (my person) and on my vaporshit, shitplans, seems more desperate. Better to ignore me entirely right. Or respond to the facts.

Any way, it seems our community is always about fighting. Smoothie you in the past were very focused on truth, but when you don't like the facts, then you don't want to talk about truth and instead want to attack my reputation.

My reputation has nothing to do with any of it. It has nothing to do with whether the facts I explained are correct. It has nothing to do with the outcome of my vaporized shit shit shit. The result of my life will not come from my reputation but from my actions and the serendipity of life.

Okay I think we are done here. I don't expect we can elevate our discussions to a mature level.

XMR needs to be picked apart by competent people to find faults (if any) so it becomes stronger and less vulnerable to attack.

If TPTB is not competent then people must show that by challenging his points (I'm non-tech, so can't myself)

He does sound desperate too, but that is irrelevant. Desperation is a good thing sometimes, it makes people fight harder.

Quote
“If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected .”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

TPTB is on "desperate ground":

 Ground on which we can only be saved from destruction by fighting without delay, is desperate ground.

Quote
When you have the enemy's strongholds on your rear,  and narrow passes in front, it is hemmed-in ground. When there is no place of refuge at all, it is desperate ground.

Quote
On hemmed-in ground, resort to stratagem.  On desperate ground, fight.

Quote
On desperate ground, I would proclaim to my soldiers the hopelessness of saving their lives.


Quote
The situation, as pictured by Ts‘ao Kung, is very similar to the #, except that here escape is no longer possible: # "A lofty mountain in front, a large river behind, advance impossible, retreat blocked." Ch‘ên Hao says: # "to be on 'desperate ground' is like sitting in a leaking boat or crouching in a burning house." Tu Mu quotes from Li Ching a vivid description of the plight of an army thus entrapped: "Suppose an army invading hostile territory without the aid of local guides:—it falls into a fatal snare and is at the enemy's mercy. A ravine on the left, a mountain on the right, a pathway so perilous that the horses have to be roped together and the chariots carried in slings, no passage open in front, retreat cut off behind, no choice but to proceed in single file (#). Then, before there is time to range our soldiers in order of battle, the enemy in overwhelming strength suddenly appears on the scene. Advancing, we can nowhere take a breathing-space; retreating, we have no haven of refuge. We seek a pitched battle, but in vain; yet standing on the defensive, none of us has a moment's respite. If we simply maintain our ground, whole days and months will crawl by; the moment we make a move, we have to sustain the enemy's attacks on front and rear. The country is wild, destitute of water and plants; the army is lacking in the necessaries of life, the horses are jaded and the men worn-out, all the resources of strength and skill unavailing, the pass so narrow that a single man defending it can check the onset of ten thousand; all means of offence in the hands of the enemy, all points of vantage already forfeited by ourselves:—in this terrible plight, even though we had the most valiant soldiers and the keenest of weapons, how could they be employed with the slightest effect?"
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
January 16, 2016, 11:41:54 PM
You are starting to sound desperate by coming here.

My only point was to inform the community that Monero is claiming to have fixed things that it has not. Also to see if anyone could point out an error in my analysis.

I don't see how having community discussion is desperate.

I continue to make the point that what ever you might think of me and my plans, that is irrelevant to the point that I made some factual statements.

The continued attacks of me (my person) and on my vaporshit, shitplans, seems more desperate. Better to ignore me entirely right. Or respond to the facts.

Any way, it seems our community is always about fighting. Smoothie you in the past were very focused on truth, but when you don't like the facts, then you don't want to talk about truth and instead want to attack my reputation.

My reputation has nothing to do with any of it. It has nothing to do with whether the facts I explained are correct. It has nothing to do with the outcome of my vaporized shit shit shit. The result of my life will not come from my reputation but from my actions and the serendipity of life.

Okay I think we are done here. I don't expect we can elevate our discussions to a mature level.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1491
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
January 16, 2016, 11:29:41 PM
It seems like Shen is going full steam ahead! Some updates regarding Ring Confidential Transactions for Monero:

Quote
edit 1/9/2016: Looks like its fully funded! Thanks to everyone who funded - I've started the work (https://github.com/ShenNoether/MiniNero/commit/9ede58897808bee784dab296654b99899a58c109), and I will be posting updates here for the next two weeks as I work on this, rather than updating both here and the stickied reddit post.

edit 1/13/2016: MG sigs + demo are done (git clone https://github.com/ShenNoether/MiniNero.git, cd brief, make, a.exe (or a.out depending on system)). Most of the helper functions are there, so the rest should go a little bit quicker. Also fixed a tiny bug in Monero's keccak function.

edit 1/14/2016: ASNL + demo are done. (https://github.com/ShenNoether/MiniNero/commit/88b2d93e137bd5a2e2a2700ac11136705bd463c5) I will probably do some additional checks on these and the MG sigs once I get everything finished, however they are working as expected now.

edit 1/15/2016: spent an all nighter getting a rough version of all the code finished - I will most likely clean it up, and then make it available early next week.

https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/2450/ring-ct-c-crypto

Primer, you make it sound like a battle.

As you all may know, I now consider this to be useless development. So please do continue!

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13514814
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13575205

TPTB if you have such a better solution why don't you stop wasting your time on the forums and go FINISH and release your coin that "fixes everything and the kitchen sink in the world"?

You are starting to sound desperate by coming here.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 262
January 16, 2016, 10:54:28 PM
TPTB, if you are just going to troll the Monero and Aeon threads with how much better your vaporware coin is, go away please.

What does that have to do with the discussion of the facts about Monero (and Bitcoin) being broken for Tragedy of the Commons scaling issues and more or less useless for anonymity?
 
Is ad hominen your version of discussion of the facts. Attacking me or my vaporshit plans is irrelevant to the point I made.


Your coin doesn't exist, and even if it did, judging by the names you are proposing for it, you are so deeply out of touch with the realities of modern culture that it will likely never catch on.
  
You received valuable advice in your thread which you disregarded: no single person or personality can launch a technology these days.  This is not the garage computing era of the 1970's.  Even Bitcoin did not succeed as a result of one person.  Your effort, despite being sincere, is misguided.  
  
Your best bet would be to throw your hat into the ring with Cryptonote developers instead of going it alone and creating a "Pegasus Coin".  
  
As is, you are the equivalent of me, going into the Game of Thrones forums and telling them all they are wasting their time - I am writing a fantasy epic that will make Thrones look like a fucking Mickey Mouse cartoon: get on board, or get left behind.  
  
And you expect to create a 'movement' with such tactics?  
  
Come to your senses.  

You are 100% certain correct? I would like to have you on record please. 100% certain? Yes or no?

Cryptonote can not be fixed. I don't see any Cryptonote devs willing to stop working on what is useless and start working on the future. If they are, my Inbox is open.

Have you ever considered that my goal is not to convince investors of investing in me, but rather to fool everyone into thinking I am no threat to them. Of course you wouldn't think of this, because you think cryptocurrency is only about the speculators at the early stages. But what if there was a different way...
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
January 16, 2016, 10:33:11 PM
Even though I really like some features Monero has that Bitcoin simply can't have on a protocol level, you can't trust Mike Hearn is sincere anymore. He likely has a hidden agenda, why would you backstab Bitcoin like this? Bitcoin needs to proof it is anti-fragile (and it does!) and that it can deal with any kind of attack, political as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4171u6/mike_hearn_did_you_knowingly_write_your_leaving/

Was that Satoshi email in 2015 ever proven a hoax?

It was not signed. The burden of proof is first to prove it's legit, not the opposite.
Satoshi knows perfectly that if it's not signed, it's no better than goat shit. He would have never bother to send something unsigned.

He didn't sign much (anything?) when he was active.

Given the length of absence it is plausible he would, or plausible that he wouldn't. Perhaps he prefers the ambiguity/deniability.


At least he was using known emails and accounts on forums. This email quoted is completely random.
What are the odds of being him, choosing not to sign for deniability, against being one of the other 7 billions?...


http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5319/what-is-the-email-of-satoshi-nakamoto
Quote
He used [email protected] (from original Bitcoin whitepaper) and [email protected] (from email logs). gmx.com is a free email service that may or may not have had location based restrictions on registration at the time. vistomail.com is an email service from anonymousspeech, the domain registrar proxy he used to register bitcoin.org.

It is trivial to fake the source of an email.

Someone claimed that it was verified to have actually come from the vistomail server though.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
Still wild and free
January 16, 2016, 10:23:24 PM
Even though I really like some features Monero has that Bitcoin simply can't have on a protocol level, you can't trust Mike Hearn is sincere anymore. He likely has a hidden agenda, why would you backstab Bitcoin like this? Bitcoin needs to proof it is anti-fragile (and it does!) and that it can deal with any kind of attack, political as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4171u6/mike_hearn_did_you_knowingly_write_your_leaving/

Was that Satoshi email in 2015 ever proven a hoax?

It was not signed. The burden of proof is first to prove it's legit, not the opposite.
Satoshi knows perfectly that if it's not signed, it's no better than goat shit. He would have never bother to send something unsigned.

He didn't sign much (anything?) when he was active.

Given the length of absence it is plausible he would, or plausible that he wouldn't. Perhaps he prefers the ambiguity/deniability.


At least he was using known emails and accounts on forums. This email quoted is completely random.
What are the odds of being him, choosing not to sign for deniability, against being one of the other 7 billions?...


http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5319/what-is-the-email-of-satoshi-nakamoto
Quote
He used [email protected] (from original Bitcoin whitepaper) and [email protected] (from email logs). gmx.com is a free email service that may or may not have had location based restrictions on registration at the time. vistomail.com is an email service from anonymousspeech, the domain registrar proxy he used to register bitcoin.org.

It is trivial to fake the source of an email.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
January 16, 2016, 09:47:59 PM
Even though I really like some features Monero has that Bitcoin simply can't have on a protocol level, you can't trust Mike Hearn is sincere anymore. He likely has a hidden agenda, why would you backstab Bitcoin like this? Bitcoin needs to proof it is anti-fragile (and it does!) and that it can deal with any kind of attack, political as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4171u6/mike_hearn_did_you_knowingly_write_your_leaving/

Was that Satoshi email in 2015 ever proven a hoax?

It was not signed. The burden of proof is first to prove it's legit, not the opposite.
Satoshi knows perfectly that if it's not signed, it's no better than goat shit. He would have never bother to send something unsigned.

He didn't sign much (anything?) when he was active.

Given the length of absence it is plausible he would, or plausible that he wouldn't. Perhaps he prefers the ambiguity/deniability.


At least he was using known emails and accounts on forums. This email quoted is completely random.
What are the odds of being him, choosing not to sign for deniability, against being one of the other 7 billions?...


http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5319/what-is-the-email-of-satoshi-nakamoto
Quote
He used [email protected] (from original Bitcoin whitepaper) and [email protected] (from email logs). gmx.com is a free email service that may or may not have had location based restrictions on registration at the time. vistomail.com is an email service from anonymousspeech, the domain registrar proxy he used to register bitcoin.org.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1491
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
January 16, 2016, 08:45:15 PM
DASH : 0.011
XMR : 0.0011

Its over...

Gold = $1075
Bitcoin = $390
Dash = $4

It's over...

Such fail logic  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
Still wild and free
January 16, 2016, 08:31:35 PM
Even though I really like some features Monero has that Bitcoin simply can't have on a protocol level, you can't trust Mike Hearn is sincere anymore. He likely has a hidden agenda, why would you backstab Bitcoin like this? Bitcoin needs to proof it is anti-fragile (and it does!) and that it can deal with any kind of attack, political as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4171u6/mike_hearn_did_you_knowingly_write_your_leaving/

Was that Satoshi email in 2015 ever proven a hoax?

It was not signed. The burden of proof is first to prove it's legit, not the opposite.
Satoshi knows perfectly that if it's not signed, it's no better than goat shit. He would have never bother to send something unsigned.

He didn't sign much (anything?) when he was active.

Given the length of absence it is plausible he would, or plausible that he wouldn't. Perhaps he prefers the ambiguity/deniability.


At least he was using known emails and accounts on forums. This email quoted is completely random.
What are the odds of being him, choosing not to sign for deniability, against being one of the other 7 billions?...
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
January 16, 2016, 07:22:39 PM
Even though I really like some features Monero has that Bitcoin simply can't have on a protocol level, you can't trust Mike Hearn is sincere anymore. He likely has a hidden agenda, why would you backstab Bitcoin like this? Bitcoin needs to proof it is anti-fragile (and it does!) and that it can deal with any kind of attack, political as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4171u6/mike_hearn_did_you_knowingly_write_your_leaving/

Was that Satoshi email in 2015 ever proven a hoax?

It was not signed. The burden of proof is first to prove it's legit, not the opposite.
Satoshi knows perfectly that if it's not signed, it's no better than goat shit. He would have never bother to send something unsigned.

He didn't sign much (anything?) when he was active.

Given the length of absence it is plausible he would, or plausible that he wouldn't. Perhaps he prefers the ambiguity/deniability.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
January 16, 2016, 07:21:07 PM
TPTB, if you are just going to troll the Monero and Aeon threads with how much better your vaporware coin is, go away please.  
  
Your coin doesn't exist, and even if it did, judging by the names you are proposing for it, you are so deeply out of touch with the realities of modern culture that it will likely never catch on.  
  
You received valuable advice in your thread which you disregarded: no single person or personality can launch a technology these days.  This is not the garage computing era of the 1970's.  Even Bitcoin did not succeed as a result of one person.  Your effort, despite being sincere, is misguided.  
  
Your best bet would be to throw your hat into the ring with Cryptonote developers instead of going it alone and creating a "Pegasus Coin".  
  
As is, you are the equivalent of me, going into the Game of Thrones forums and telling them all they are wasting their time - I am writing a fantasy epic that will make Thrones look like a fucking Mickey Mouse cartoon: get on board, or get left behind.  
  
And you expect to create a 'movement' with such tactics?  
  
Come to your senses.  
Jump to: